Is the SNP gerrymandering their leadership vote?

[Shelefttheweb]

It seems the HQ are refusing to say how many members are allowed to vote or allow independent scrutiny of the vote. They want to wait until after the vote to see how many votes they need to add to make Yousaf win to announce how many qualifying members there are. It is outrageous that the vote for the person likely to be FM is being done this way.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64972800

What else do you expect from a dodgy shower like the SNP?!
They wouldn’t let their own finance minister look at the books, two of the three candidates don’t trust them to conduct a fair election and Police Scotland are still sniffing round Murrell and that missing £600,000.

They have so much confidence being so blatant about it.

Regardless of your opinions on the SNP or the individual candidates - I know I have many - gerrymandering does not apply here.

Gerrymandering is when district lines are deliberately drawn through communities to split the vote to heavily favour one political party. This is a really serious issue, especially in America where redistricting is decided by the majority political party in the area rather than independent committees. Please don't conflate it with individual doubts about the SNP leadership vote.

Is it hypocritical for the new SNP FM to be chosen through a member vote (and not an election) when the SNP were up in arms about the Conservatives doing it with the PM last year? I guess that is for everyone to individually decide.

But it isn't gerrymandering.

They are employing an independent organisation "MI Vote" to conduct the election. Is there really any need for a second auditor?

The SNP don't have the power to call a national election even if they want to. The Scottish elections are fixed in time - first Thursday in May every 5 years.

Unless the FM is forced to remain in office for the full 5 years they have to choose the next FM in this way.

Hardly independent!

Scottish elections are fixed in time UNLESS conditions are met for an extraordinary general election. These conditions would require 2/3 MSPs voting to dissolve Parliament. Less than the number of MSPs who called for an early UK general election.

You are right in the fact that they could not call an election with only SNP MSP support. But there was more than just the SNP party calling for an early UK general election.

If you consider gerrymandering to be manipulation of constituencies rather than areas then yes it is potentially gerrymandering - drawing lines through who is allowed to vote to protect a preferred candidate.

Why else have they not said how many voters are in this voting constituency? Why not a proper independent audit of the vote rather than simply a contractor who provides a voting package to meet their clients’ (SNP, Chaired by Sturgeon’s husband) needs.

If you can provide information that instead of

-Every member getting one vote and that being tallied (through STV ballot)

Actually

-Each 'area' is getting a vote based on the majority of members' votes in that area (which has been specially drawn for this member vote to favour a candidate)

then you are correct. Otherwise you are spreading misinformation.

Yes, we do not know how many SNP members there are. That information should be released. But it is not gerrymandering.

No, the constituency is those who are entitled to vote, if you decide to redraw the line of entitlement to vote such that more of your supporters are entitled to vote or fewer of your opponents then that is gerrymandering. Not announcing how many people are entitled to vote until after the vote suggests they won’t know how many they intend to allow to vote until they have seen how the voting goes.

Mumsnet SNP threads never fail to entertain.

'HQ' now apparently has precognisance over how each individual member plans to vote, but not only that, they are confident that a scheme to 'draw lines through' individual members and exclude them from the vote entirely would just pass unnoticed and without complaint by the members themselves.

Come on, @XDownwiththissortofthingX . It's not exactly being awkward and demanding to ask the simple question about how many people are eligible to vote.

Two of the three candidates are asking for this too.

I have not implied it is.

I was ridiculing the assertion that the party not only knows how individual members plan to vote, but is using that information to limit who ballots are sent to by an independent 3rd party.

FWIW, all 3 candidates have requested the relevant info is made public.

It doesn't look great for the SNP that two of THEIR OWN CANDIDATES have so little faith in the process that they want independent oversight, rather than the NEC contracting out the process to a company who presumably act on their instructions on who to send ballots to. There are now several reports of past members no longer being in the SNP being sent ballots. If they don't now allow independent scrutiny it's hard to see the result, whatever it may be, being accepted without challenge.

I just don't understand why they haven't just released the number of voters as asked and avoided a lot of this, which is after all completely standard for elections. Is it embarrassment because so many left the SNP? Is it because releasing this info will allow dots to be joined about missing money and reveal corruption as has been suggested? Are they so incompetent with such poor record keeping that they DON'T KNOW how many paid up member there are? Whatever the answer the whole thing has descended into farce.

It is absolutely ridiculous! Surely we live in x democracy and the voting should be transparent otherwise HY will forever be unsure if he won or not?!!! How can the Scottish public have confidence in their government if we don’t even know how many people have bend invited to vote?

What do you mean? Are you suggesting that a company which specialises in conducting elections is not doing so. If they are not conducting the election in a fair manner they will soon be out of business.

I would be interested to hear your sources.

I cannot find any information online that suggests that some members are not entitled to vote. Just that it is not public knowledge how many members there are and all 3 candidates have asked for it to be publicised.

It is still not gerrymandering.

If you are referring to the fact that you had to be a SNP member before 15 Feb to be eligible then that is fairly common for leadership elections and not gerrymandering.

The SNP have now revealed their membership numbers to be 72,186. Which is interesting for a few reasons. It's obviously much less than a couple of years ago, but is less than the 78000 ballots that were reportedly sent out - could this account for the past members receiving ballots?

It might also lead to more questions over their accounts, as apparently income hasn't changed much in the last few years, despite membership being quite sharply down...

They why can’t they simply say how many are registered to vote? Or why don’t they want to?

Hmmm, Scouts, Camping and Caravanning Club and the Royal Society of Chemistry...

Here we go again.. tin hat time.

Did you have to dip into your £600,000 for that?

The SNP have now revealed their membership numbers to be 72,186. Which is interesting for a few reasons. It's obviously much less than a couple of years ago, but is less than the 78000 ballots that were reportedly sent out - could this account for the past members receiving ballots?

This why questions are being asked. Why was the postal list for members 6000 ish people more than the actual membership? What's to stop someone who knows they are no longer a member from filling in the form? It's really all just a bit amateur isn't it.