Who do you want to see as new First Minister?

[Rememberal]

And who do you think it'll be if they are different?

Not seen any threads on this yet!

My two cents -

I voted SNP when I was very young (Salmond) and under the impression they were a kinda catch-all working man's party who didn't do much to offend the left or right, but I stopped voting for them ages ago and recently started to actively despise them.

Normally I'm the polar opposite of the Reddit consensus and they seem to want Robertson but only, it seems, because they can't have Mhari Black (which is one MP I DO know and absolutely cannot stand). I feel like Forbes is the only one who'd bring them back to the centre and increase membership as she might attract everyone who left back.

So I suppose I'm a toss-up between Forbes who might pull them away from their more (imho) farcical policies and Black who might finally start to kill them dead in the water.

I do believe Sturgeon resigned because the recent polling data (where ALL age demographics agreed with the WM overturn including a large amount of SNP membership) showed that people vote SNP despite their progressive policies and not because of them. I reckon they knew it would really hurt them at the next election, and since she can't U-turn, the only thing left to do was step aside and let a new leader shift their direction.

I'm interested to know what people on here think though.

Interesting @Abhannmor I was wondering about the historical precedents for this strategy...also a person who could've been convinced for independence if it made sense but not purely as identity rhetoric.

I voted No because Yes seemed a daft idea, making no economic or political sense.

I was sure my vote had nothing to do with "identity" but , oddly, near the end of the campaign, I got more emotional than I would ever have expected at the idea of my British identity being taken from me.

I absolutely would not be convinced for Yes on an identity basis. There would have to be overwhelming proof that it would be economically and politically better to be "Scottish" than "British"

I was resolutely no last time - it didn't make sense economically, and I also found myself feeling quite "british".

I think I'm probably less ideologically opposed than I was, maybe because of Brexit, but that is balanced out by the economic and political arguments being even worse. The thought of this current shower being responsible for negotiating the "divorce" and setting up all of the institutions a new country would need? Aw HELL no.

I voted No but being honest I've traditionally seen myself as more Scottish than British. However, I really hate that that part of my identity has been soured by the division created and so I guess I shy away from that more. I like being Scottish within the UK. I just don't get the argument about never getting the government you voted for so needing to go it alone whilst that still leaves the majority of Scotland without the government they vote for.

I rarely get any direct representation based on who I vote for other than through the proportional representation model. A model that means SNP blowhards keep slagging non SNP MSPs off as they "didn't actually get elected", whilst ignoring that that is how the model works and also ignoring their beloved former leader's failure to get elected for her first elections, then a PR spot and really only getting a safe seat after being taken under Salmond's wing as it were.

But yes, mainly it is the economic argument and the complete incompetence that consolidates my No. It's not really an ideological opposition either.

I mean most SNP MSPs struggle with how the law works buts this is a particularly new level of fingers in ears lalalalala

Joanna Cherry is backing her. For all that Joanna is supposed to be this brilliant legal brain she struggles on constitutional law too.

Cherry was arguing the section 35 challenge on the GRR Bill shouldn't have been made and it was for Scotland to sort it. ( How she thought that would happen, I've no idea)

Regardless of one's political persuasion or feelings about that Bill I'm afraid Sunak is the one who got the law right.

The responses to that are hilarious. Aside from the obvious (and deserved) Unionist condemnation SNP supporters think she's an Alba stooge.

Perhaps she's unintentionally the unity candidate.

You've got to hand it to the SNP 3 very different candidates there!

Regan - Indy at any and all costs and by any means strategy

Forbes - toleration and build economic case for Indy

Yousaf - the Sturgeon continuity candidate

Well this'll perk up March what we all get notified of the council tax increases and service cuts looming!

I see Regan's been caught out on "do as I say , not what I do" in sending her own children to private schools.

Hilarious - moved them due to wraparound and holiday care options for working parents - yes, I bet a lot of us can relate to that...looking forward to the papers this weekend!

It's behind a pay wall but The Scotsman is reporting Forbes was in favour of the GRR Bill in its early stages.

If that's correct that maternity leave, with apparently no internet access where she could have logged on and voted against it, was awfy convenient.

Forbes is safe to speak up now about it, after Alastair Jack, Kemi Badenoch and Rishi Sunak have done the work on making it dead in the water and public opinion supports them.

She signed a letter back in 2019 urging the govt not to rush in to grr and was pretty widely known to not be in favour. But if she changed her mind, well so have lots of people.

I've just acquired a Scotsman subscription. According to the Scotsman it is understood the decision to progress the gender recognition Bill was brought to Cabinet at a virtual meeting chaired by the Sturgeon on 18 January 2022.

Forbes attended it and voiced no opposition. The main gist of the Bill was known.

Again according to The Scotsman

Those present discussed the Bill and approved both the exact text of the legislation, bar some technical amendments, which would enter Parliament later that year.

This included provisions for a system of self-identification and for the ability to legally change gender to be extended to 16 and 17-year-olds.

Ms Forbes, who was in attendance, did not object to the Bill, but did speak about the general controversy around the legislation.

not sure if link works without a subscription

^www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-leadership-contest-kate-forbes-backed-gender-reform-bill-while-cabinet-secretary-4036186?utm_campaign=scot-insidereditor-allusers-api&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=247562819&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--92QCEJQCWEcA8feO4XSaGN9g7AK3Uh0YJJ23c1TTvivzfErQDnuptFmnyWu6mVnUFwMRp4ydiNgaOW3FVJTjFEnkVvw&utm_content=247562819&utm_source=hs_email^

According to the Scotsman it is understood the decision to progress the gender recognition Bill was brought to Cabinet at a virtual meeting chaired by the Sturgeon on 18 January 2022.

Those present discussed the Bill and approved both the exact text of the legislation, bar some technical amendments, which would enter Parliament later that year.

approved the exact test BEFORE the consultation closed? Was this also before or after they were forced to meet women’s groups opposed to the bill as they had promised in their manifesto but had had no intention of doing until forced?

That's where Scot gov particularly falls down - so many consultations, and so little evidence that they listen and change legislation on the back of it. One million surveys you know are simply mined for agreeing quotes and so they can say they listened.

The Bill was introduced to the Scottish Parliament in March 2022.

www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/introduced

The first draft contained the provisions relating to self ID, 3 months waiting period and applies to 16 year olds.

Forbes was a minister when it was introduced and didn't go on maternity leave until July 2022.

She's no better than Yousaf.

Loads of people feel they have lost their rights and freedoms as Europeans since 2016. But nobody can stop you actually being European , or British for that matter.

After all , even people living here on John Bulls Other Island can be British. I saw an interview with a member of an Ascendancy family here who said ' We don't consider ourselves Irish or English but British '.

That family have lived here nearly 400 years so identities would appear to endure regardless of political arrangements. Sometimes. If you're living in Bradford and your parents are Asian , you should support England at cricket . But that's different of course wink 😉

Except European isn't a nationality. I don't want a Scottish passport. Identity is only a tiny part of why I oppose separatism. It's interesting however that identity is a huge part of the separatist cause but you can gloss over it as trivial for the Unionist side.

And I wonder who is leaking what she supposedly did or didn't say in closed cabinet meetings?

If anyone is interested in the passage of the GRR Bill there's no way Forbes could not have been fully aware of the content she now finds herself incapable of supporting.

www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/introduced

There's even a supporting financial memorandum - that's in her remit.

If you apply the SNP's own policy it doesn't actually even need a leak about what she did behind closed doors. Although obviously someone is out to get her. I don't care about that- I'm happy for them all to backstab each other.

I don't recall her speaking out and as a minister she had collective responsibility. By drawing her ministerial salary she implicitly endorsed everything in the Stage 1 draft.

Most people didn't give a rats arse about being in the EU until Nicola told them to.

All three of them are tarnished and tainted. I don't think any of them are competent, actually have a plan or properly thought out views. Can you imagine any of them being able to hold their own against the likes of Ruth Davidson in her prime? Now even the most inept of opposition will wipe the floor with them. FMQ is going to be even more of a shit show.

@BigBoysDontCry yes I agree with both your posts; yes there was a complete lack of interest in EU by most of the Scottish population and would go further on your second point and suggest the whole independence movement is tarnished, tainted and inept.