Scottish teachers strikes

[museumum]

How have other Scots found the teachers strikes?
I’m seeing a lot of stress from English parents I know on Fb as well as on mn but it seems to me in my bit of Scotland parents have said “fair dos” to the teachers and just got in with things/arrangements quietly.

I’m not sure this is necessarily good for the teachers cause….

interested to hear from other Scots around the country….?

Interesting that other teachers on here are saying that about the ballot - my friends who are teachers say the same thing. I had parents night recently and a few of my son’s teachers were also very frustrated with the strikes so close to exam time - there’s a lot of pressure on them and the pupils now to complete folios etc and get up to standard.

I think the teachers have shot themselves in the foot with this one & the public are fast losing any sympathy they may have had.

Their grievances are very similar to so many other professionals, most of whom are paid less, are working in worse conditions (nurses) or have already accepted lower pay rises without striking.

I think we agree @Staggie we're both concerned about the same thing.

As myself, and another poster said, teachers are not the only workers in the position of having their salaries effectively eroded over the past few years - it's happening to millions of people. I think this is one of the main reasons they are losing public support, because what they're asking for is completely unreasonable in the current climate and I'm not sure why they feel they deserve more of a raise than other public sector workers who are in the same position.

Teachers don’t think they deserve it more than other public service workers though. You’re coming to that conclusion and conflating issues.

Most teachers would agree nhs staff deserve a decent pay rise.

I'm not conflating the issue, I was replying to a previous poster. I'm sure teachers do agree that other workers should have a salary raise, but my point was that its not feasible for teachers to have the salary raise that they are asking for and it's way out of line with what other public sector workers have been given - and that's why they're losing public support.

Exactly @Mortimermay If teachers continue to push for a pay rise well in excess of that awarded to other public sector workers then the money has to be found from somewhere (while the disruption to our children’s education goes on) - this is usually by cutting services elsewhere or increasing taxes and so no-one benefits. Sympathy and support is waning, there isn’t a bottomless pit, and if the Govt award teachers the rate they’re asking for then the risk of further strike action elsewhere becomes real. Everyone would love a higher pay increase - it’s just not feasible at this time and we have to be realistic.

It’s worth remembering that teachers haven’t shot themselves in the foot, the EIS have. If you are a EIS member, which is the majority of the Scottish teaching workforce, you are not even being given the chance to vote. I knew this would happen from the moment the deal was leaked before it was shared with the unions. I am furious tbh that it’s been rejected without consultation. The reality is that even if there was a 10% offer, the year 2023-24 would bring a 1% offer so we end up in a similar place.

Can I ask, what's the next step here? Is there a timetable for a new offer being made, or further consultation with members by the Union? As a parent working in a professional role within the public sector at the top of my band, who received a 4% equivalent rise and who is being impacted by the targeted strike dates, my sympathy is waning fast. It would be helpful to know what is planned. More national strikes? More targeted strikes? Seems any momentum has been lost and there will be no winners ...

That’s part of the problem though. Teaching is now short of applicants

“Applications to Scottish postgraduate teacher education courses have fallen by 27 per cent compared with last year and have almost halved since they peaked in 2021, new official figures show.

University admissions service Ucas said that by the January deadline, 10,150 applications had been made to study teaching in Scotland this year, compared with 13,960 in 2022 and 19,500 in 2021.”

and for STEM subjects as many as 70% of places we unfilled last year

Add the issues with a majority of NQT’s only being able to secure temporary contracts resulting in many of the people who do apply leaving within the first 5 years and it starts to make sense as to why we have less teachers now instead of more as was promised

2 x more national strikes days

Plus an additional 6 strike if you live in certain ministers constituencies

That's till mid march. Who knows after that.

2 more on a rolling programme too starting 13th March to 21st April. They are the authority ones and the 28th Feb/1st March are the nation wide ones. So 4 still to go and even more for those constituencies that have been identified.

10,150 applicants for how many places though? @TiredTeach

From speaking to my own adult children and their friends, friends whose children are training to become teachers and teacher friends the salary is not the main issue - it's pretty well paid in comparison to what many other graduates earn after 5 years. The issue is the lack of permanent posts, the lack of support from some other teachers while they're on placement, the complaints from parents, the lack of funding for children who require additional support and so on. None of this will be improved by simply giving teachers a pay deal well in excess of other public sector workers (who face similar challenges) if the jobs aren't there because budgets have had to be cut to pay for this increase.

what about applicants to the 4 year primary degree? Have those figures gone down? Has the number of spaces available gone down?

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said

I was simply addressing the earlier point that there is no shortage of applicants which isn’t true

I don’t know the exact figures, but as far as I understood PGDE places were increased because of the commitment for 3500 extra teachers by 2026 but numbers applying are falling instead of rising

Is 10,150 a shortage though in comparison to the number of university places (and consequently the number of vacancies in schools)? That was my point.

I don't think teachers deserve more - all workers should be fighting for a close to inflation pay rise. If other workers wish to accept lower, that is on them.

Don't pit worker against worker, your anger should be at the government.

No better way to fuel inflation that to give all workers close to inflation pay rises.

I’ll direct my anger wherever I like. At the moment I’m pissed off at the disruption caused to my son’s education by the strikes at a critical stage in his schooling, I’m pissed off at the EIS rejecting this very good offer without balloting its members, I’m pissed off that teachers (who are already well paid)appear to think there’s a money tree somewhere, and I’m pissed off that the Govt has made such a shambles of education in this country. I’m spreading my pissed-offness at the people I believe deserve it.

My DD has 3 tutors every week for 3 of her N5s, not because she's bad at these subjects but because her education has been disrupted, first through covid, and secondly through staff sickness, staff going on holiday (yes THEY seemingly can), and staff maternity leave. She's had supply teachers, job share teachers and teachers from other subjects entirely. This has left her very confused as to what she is meant to be doing for some of these subjects. The teaching and guidance has not always been consistent. I'm paying £100 a week for these tutors and its amazing the difference in DDs confidence. Now teachers are striking. So I'm pissed off too. Do I need to get more tutors so DD doesn't fall behind even more?

Job share teachers - how dare they!

DD had job share teachers once on primary - it wasn’t good, probably because it wasn’t actually job share with one doing 2 days a week and the other doing 3. 2 excellent, experienced teachers on their own but the handover and continuity was dreadful. I’m sure it works for some but our experience was far from positive.

*in

We had mixed experience of Job share in primary. Some that worked well; generally the teachers divie’d up the work so they did different things but also handed over well (doing an extra hour each week in order to both be there together to have that discussion). Others were disjointed giving the children mixed and confusing messages. But even the good ones lacked continuity through the week which as a particular issue for my dd with SEN.

yes that's the issue with the job share teachers DD has - conflicting messages. One will say her work is good, another will say its not. It has made DD confused and tearful. And there's the pink haired, tattoed, pierced, non binary, Chemistry teacher who says they 'hate' Chemistry and that they 'just scraped' a C when they did their own Highers. Hardly motivating. We are meant to pay more tax payers money for that kind of teaching experience?