Give them time DEFER campaign

[spidereggs]

Hello

Feeling very confused and looking for guidance.

Scotland has managed to establish a defer to six, like abroad system, starting now.

My options for a very bright four year old, October birthday.

1. Primary school, with only teachers son. But composite classes, so with older friends,
2. Lead the way (here because nobody else seems to be aware, rural Scotland) and defer her, an extra year nursery, I don't send her much anyway, she works with me, outdoors, animals.
3. Flexi school, leaning to this, head supports it. Small school. Friday for example is just a bus trip in, PE, lunch and home, so say maybe three days in, 1.5 home.
4. Homeschool, ruled out.
5. Another rural school, larger p1 entry, no transport, excellent as is first.

She is ready for school, perse.

BUT this new scheme means all working parents in Scotland have 3 years, age 3,4 and 5 funded nursery 30 hours, age 2 as well if benefits. My friends all seem like, get them to school, but the hours are the same, if you use them, which I don't.

Teacher friends say for the next three years they are facing primary one intakes with age 4 to 6.

Would you view this as an opportunity to enjoy them or am I holding her for my own reasons?

givethemtime.org/

This is it for those interested

There won't be intakes of any P1s who are 6 as DC are only eligible for an additional year of nursery if they are not 5 by the start of the school term so the following year they will be 5 (turning 6 later in the term) and although some children may start at 4 they will be turning 5 within the first term so only a year's difference in age.
I'd always advise parents to opt into the additional year as for most children the benefits of an additional year of fully play based learning before the increased demands of P1 far outweighs any potential negatives.
It's also worth remembering that if they are the younger end of the year group going into P1 then they will also be younger starting high school (11 instead of 12) & leaving high school (17 rather than 18) and at these times the age difference can have a big impact.

I will be deferring my 4 year old boy (late Nov birthday). His sister is currently in P1 in a very small school (single composite P1-7 class).

He is bright but has only recently started showing interest in alphabet, drawing proper pictures etc, which is quite different to where his sister was at the same age.

I think he'll get very frustrated if he does start school and struggles. Everyone I've spoken to says extra time is always a bonus. Although the hours are the same, my life would be a lot easier if he did start school this year. However, I don't think that's best for him, especially when considering secondary.

Only you know your child but wanted you to know that I'll be utilising the scheme. Though most ofhers local to me aren't this year (I think was announced so late and people already had it in their heads that kids were starting school).

Thank you @Musicalmistress.

I don't follow the dates.

Say I have an august born 2018, and I defer, they will be 6 when they start? Then a child who doesn't turn 5 until the end of the following feb?

Quite a gap.

18 months?

I

@Muststopeating thank you.

I think she is ready for school, but I'm not, and I agree with the let the, be approach? If the at makes sense.

I don't know, I really don't.

She’s ready and you say so yourself. With play based learning in P1, it’s a very slow and gradual start to learning. P2 is now the old P1 (imo).

The problem with deferring is that it’s mostly taken up by more middle class, engaged families. The children who need it most are rarely deferred.

DS2 is an October birthday. I had the same dilemma and didn't defer. He's actually right in the middle age wise in his P1 class of 13 kids and he's even the second oldest boy in the class (small rural-ish school). Did I do the right thing, I'm not sure, but deferring Aug-Dec born kids does not yet seem to be the done thing here at all (I know some end Feb who were deferred) and he would have been well out of line age-wise had I deferred. Our council publishes the statistics about deferral, it's worth taking a look if you haven't already.

@Fabuleuse oh absolutely, it's not the done thing. Very few taking it up.

@TheTeacherSays that's a good point re play based learning.

Is this scheme eventually to become standard does anyone know? Or is it always being left to choice?

DS is a November birthday but I don't think I'll defer. I'm October and I felt right age wise with my peers. I think if I kept him back another year he'd feel much older than them by the time he's at high school etc.

You have always been able to defer the start date if your child has a late birthday in Scotland. As far as I am aware it is just the nursery funding that has changed.
I had this decision with all of my children. I only deferred the start date for 1 as I felt they were not quite ready. The others were totally ready to go and were frustrated by nursery in the final two terms.
The beauty of composite classes is that there is much more fluidity in learning levels and in friendship groups.
Only you know your child and if they will benefit from a further year at home or if a school environment with more children would be more beneficial. One thing I would take into consideration is the number of children that will be in P1 with them if they defer.

You need to make the decision based in your child's school readiness.

DS is a Jan birthday and we agonised over whether to defer. He was totally ready for school and I worried about boredom at nursery and him missing his friends. So we didn't defer.

He's now in S3 and doing absolutely fine. He will be young when he leaves and we will encourage a year out if he wants to go to uni.

I agree with PP that deferring seems to be a MC choice and many of our friends raised eyebrows that we didn't. There are a few boys 13/14 months older than him in the year - other than sport he holds his own.

@Roseshavethorns I think it's the dates as well? Used to just be late birthday, now it's any child from 1st august.

I think this thread echoes what's happening here certainly, nobody is deferring unless a reason to.

I suppose my instinct says she is ready, but my head says they are only little once, leave her be.

I think flexi schooling might be the best option for her.

@spidereggs it is not a new thing that you can defer their school start until they are 5. They are only compulsory school age if they are actually 5 on the first day of the school year in August, and this has been the case for years, so you could always have deferred an October birthday. Previously if you had wanted to defer you would have had to apply for nursery funding for a further year and councils varied in how readily they accepted these requests. What is new is that the funding is now guaranteed across Scotland for any child who is not 5 on the first day in August.

As an EYP my understanding is that August date is actually the date they return to school not the 1st.

I deferred my daughter. Nursery primary wasn’t an issue. But the transfer to high school was awful for quite a few in her year who were only 11. Then exams were tough and leaving school at 17 meant they couldn’t participate in freshers.

so it’s not just about being ready for school at age 4 or 5 but looking to the future.

Deferal is often recommended in more deprived areas and there is a high uptake from my experience in my job.

The difference now is that funding is given automatically rather than having to apply for it. This year is the year that it is a legal requirement.

Something which stuck with me from Education Scotland was “it’s not that a child should be ready for primary one but that Primary one should be ready to meet the needs of the child.

Best thing I ever did was deferred my daughter. She would have coped but she would not have thrived at age 4. She was born earlier than she should have been so she should have been where she was.

No child will start school at 6 if given an additional year but they may turn 6 quickly in the new term. You can't defer all August born children, only if they are not yet 5 on the first day of the new term and the hope is that the majority of children who are not 5 at the start of term will take an additional year so minimising the age difference. It's worth bearing in mind that if they attend nursery they're already with children with a wide age gap - we have children who have just turned 3 & children having an additional year who turned 5 in October for example.
As far as the premise that it's a MC option to take up the additional year I'd say our experience is very much the opposite. We are in a deprived area with a small number of more well off families and lots of our poorer families are keen to take up the additional year to benefit their children.

The majority of our parents who have children that are eligible are taking up the offer, whether there is a specific reason or not.

Flexi or defer - tbh I'd avoid full time if I could do a softer way in I'd go for that as there is so much relentlessness and filler to the school year. It's great that there is more choice, you know your child best so what you think matters most, whatever you do it's not that consequential.

I deferred my early November born daughter last year. She will be older than some of the primary 2s when she starts school but it has absolutely been the right decision for her. Academically there are no concerns, but in terms of her confidence and resilience she has flourished and will be in a much better place to start school. I was apprehensive about it but would now encourage everyone to defer if they can.

My youngest DD is in P1 and doesn't turn 5 for another 4 weeks. She's in a composite class made up of mostly P2s, though the P1s in her class do spend half the day with the full P1 class and teacher. She's thriving, happy and confident. Its been her nature from the very beginning so we knew she would be fine. She is as happy with the 6 year olds in her class as she is when she bumps into 3 year old friends from her nursery.

So I wouldn't worry about the dates, ages and whether other parents are doing it and for what reasons. What is the right path for YOUR child and take that 🙂

I've been trying to find info on what kind of benefits there might be from deferring? He's by no means the youngest but would still be 4 for a few months after starting primary school.

I've been primary teaching for 25 years in Scotland. In all that time, I have never met a parent who regretted deferring. I met plenty who wished they had when faced with the P7/S1 transition.

Your child is entitled to another year of free education. Why refuse that?

I deferred DD1 (Sep birth) and so far (P5) it has been the correct decision. She will be 11, nearly 12 when she starts S1. DD2 was August so not eligible.

Do you see many children who are older than January born who have been deferred?

I deferred my November born DD, she is now 6 and in P1 and has thrived in a way she would not have last year. She spent a happy additional year in nursery building her gross and fine motor skills, developing confidence and learning at a more natural pace. Had she gone to school she would have had to learn phonics, pencil control, numeracy etc in a more formal way, while still not being physically or developmentally ready to do those things. I don’t doubt that she would have been ok, but given the bonus of time to learn and develop more naturally through play she is thriving.

@Mylittlesandwich

I teach in affluent catchment so we have parents who fight tooth and nail to defer from Sep births onwards. They want every advantage for their child.

When I taught in a more deprived catchment, parents just went along with the system without question. It was still an issue in P7 though. One parent moved their child into a different school and challenged the LA at tribunal to defer into S1. They were successful but I can only point to that one exception in 25 years.

I'm in a less affluent area and so I feel that keeping back my November born will definitely make him the oldest in my class. He's also tall for his age so likely to tower over his classmates. Of course if the benefits will outweigh this then I'd absolutely do it. The UK does seem to start formal education earlier than most European countries which I find interesting.