Child keen to go to University but below entry requirements

[Tig33]

Hello
I have posted a few times about the challenges my DC is having at secondary school, well in terms of ASN support (or lack of) and SQA qualifications. They have their heart set on studying history and I am doing my best to support them to get there but it is not going to be easy!

They got an A at Nat 5 history but a B at higher, along with three other B’s. So this ruled out most Scottish universities as requirements are AAAA+.

Aberdeen, Dundee and Stirling offer history and have requirements between AABB and AABBB. As DC has gone from predictions of ACCF to BBBB we were hopeful that with hard work they could achieve AA in s6.

unfortunately the school don’t think so and have predicted a B in AH history and two further Bs at higher.

so if DC achieves predictions they would have (what would be treated as) ABBBBB over two sittings.

so below requirements. School are providing no advice and are just going through the motions of ucas process. I don’t see the point of applying as surely likely to be rejected.

all (and I do mean all!) of their peers (and my friends kids) have a clutch of A’s from S5 so I don’t know anyone in same boat and am struggling.

their friends are starting to get unconditional offers already (many are early applicants) and I really don’t think it would be good for DC to be in s6 with a peer group getting all offers when they get all reactions.

I have emailed school to suggest that maybe a ucas application is NOT wise and would it not be better from them to apply to college this year and so an HNC.

the only university that they meet the requirements for is UHI and from what I can see the first year is v similar to the HNC social sciences offered throughout Scotland so DC could stay at home and then apply through ucas next year with hope of being predicted a B in the HNC.

they mentioned Northumbria university which has entry requirements on ucas point which they could potentially meet but I am less keen on them taking on fee debt and would far prefer them to be able to attend a Scottish university.

in terms of their ASN the universities we spoke to said they would get support while at university. Just seems so back to front that they cannot get support at high school so are struggling to get grades needed to get in but if they got in they would be supported.

any advice or ideas would be much appreciated thank you.

will try posting in the HE board but think that SQA highers cause confusion!

Do they know what they actually want to do career wise? (Always tricky at such a young age) if so it might be worth other routes into this career path that don't require a degree. University really isn't the be all and end all, maybe they'd be happier working.

What is it they want to do career wise? Napier do a BA in social sciences which has a minimum BBCC, and I’m sure there are other options elsewhere. It doesn’t harm to have some alternatives based around future career plans.

Hi sausageroll unfortunately not. I have tried to get them to think about that but all they see is how much they love history!

the school has provided zero advice as just seem to be set up for UCAS as the vast majority of their students will get into HE.

I have tried my best to suggest other options like apprenticeships etc but they have their heart set on history.

they are young for this age so in a lot of ways I didn’t feel that they are ready to leave home to go to university, and I don’t. Know how much they are influenced by what everyone else (they know) is doing.

is so hard as I just want what’s best for them but feel so in the dark and uninformed about what is out there. I feel I keep saying the wrong thing as being realistic and think better to make decision not to apply now than for them to feel totally disheartened right at the time they are sitting their exams and not do as well as they could have due to lack of confidence and feeling what is the point.

they have already expressed to me ‘what is the point in me trying as even when I try I never get there’ is so hard

Thanks sirchenjins we did have a look at the Edinburgh Napier option but they are so set on history that they were not keen.

they have no idea what they want to do and there doesn’t seem to be any guidance or support on that as the school so focussed on the high achievers.

I think we need to go and look at the SDS world of work resources again.

is going to be so hard for them when all their friends go off to university and make new friends and they are left behind. So really want them to find something that is right for them.

I presume it is not possible for them to repeat S6 as they will be over 18?

Would it be worth thinking about Northumbria for a year, gaining a certHE then using that as entry qualification to a Scottish uni?

Sorry I don't have any advice about the Scottish system but are Access courses available in Scotland? If so your child could explore his interests for a couple of years, maybe work part time, then do an Access course at 19? Or he could do Open University, history modules at level 1, if he got enough credits he could use those in place of traditional entry requirements to start a degree.
I'm in England but I've noticed St Andrews accept 60 level one OU credits for their degree entry requirements, although lots of universities will ask for 120.

UHI Perth do access courses and have excellent pastoral care.

Have a look at careers using history as a starting point.

www.history.org.uk/student/resource/2914/careers-in-history

www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/history

Its a shame school aren’t supporting. Your alternative suggestion seems like a good one as does Access or looking at combined or alternative degrees.
Ask what’s the priority - to go to uni or to study history? Is history a hobby or do any of the careers with a history degree interest them? Any chance of work experience?

I think history is a great degree and you can do a lot with it. I didn't do particularly well in a school environment and actually got a B in higher history and ended up doing a fully funded PhD in history, so it is not a reflection on how well they would do in the subject at university. It really is very different. I opted to do an HNC in social science (instead of 6th year) and it was really good for me. It is a halfway house in terms of independent study and the structure of school. But I appreciate this would mean going to university a year later than all of your friends.

I have a history degree which I loved and then went into something unrelated (and dc with ASD) and it's so hard to know what to do or advise isn't it?

Tbh, I would let them apply for history anywhere they could get in for history with good ASD support - student debt is undesirable but if you don't hit earning thresh-holds you don't pay - 2 family have started and not finished degrees at rUK places and they haven't paid anything back. And they don't regret trying either, I find it a bit limiting that all degrees have to be justified by the step after that - I didn't 'use' my history degree at work but it's been a lifelong source of pleasure and enjoyment as a hobby and looking back on it.

Much sympathy for the lack of support with all of it from school

@TTig33 I don't know much about the Scottish system I'll be honest- but used to be a careers advisor so happy to talk to some friends and get some info for you

Do any of the unis he likes do access to HE courses? They’re usually a year long and provide a different pathway to degree level.

I can’t comment on Scottish universities as I am in England, and less familiar. If they would be happy to compromise on location, and go to an English or Welsh uni, they could look into degrees with a foundation year

This sounds like a great idea. Maybe even just call up their pastoral team for a chat about access and adjustments.

Thank you. I think that an HNC may be a good idea.

I think a lot of access courses are for adult returners who have a gap since school.the ones I looked at needed a three year gap but all have another look.

DC wants to continue in education but maybe will feel differently when they lose touch with their friends from school as they go on into HE and DC is left behind. Worried they will be very isolated after the disappointment so a lot to worry about!

we have looked at UHi as an option but as there seem to be articulation agreements with colleges offering the social science HNC at the moment I think that staying at home for another year may be the best option. They may well end up at UHI as they do offer a history degree.

@Hooverphobe what is your experience of UHI? All of the colleges and universities I have spoken to seem to offer better support than school so it just so frustrating that the lack of support at school may prevent them from being able to access HE whereas if they got in they could thrive as would be studying what they are passionate about and being supported.

just seems there are so few options for the kids who don’t manage to hit the straight A jackpot.

Do you meet any widening access criteria?

Are there any associated subjects worth considering? Archaeology, anthropology etc.

A two plus two route could also be an option starting out at college and progressing to university if academic study suits.

I would advise thinking about career options. History is useful in so many areas but qualifies you for nothing in itself.

The questions I wish I'd been asked when thinking about university were the type of environment I want to work in and where I want to live

I am a country person but ended up tied to big city work. I wish I'd done land management or horticulture!

The options beyond school are huge. I was very much in the 'which of the subjects I study now will I take ' mindset. I really didn't grasp how many other options there were and wish someone had helped me see that.

History can always be an interest even if it's not a career.

I’m such a slow typer that I am about five posts behind!

I have suggested keeping history as a hobby and looking at other options post school but they are so excited about studying history. They are really enjoying AH and got A’s in both essays so far and are also doing really well in higher geography so they are quite social science orientated (they have higher maths and biology as well) history just seems to float their boat!

I am not sure if they would want to go to university if they can’t study history. I tried to interest them in the Edinburgh Napier degree in social sciences and also in other options that I think they may actually find interesting such as environmental science but they are very committed to history.

we are not well off and I am very debt adverse so if at all possible would prefer them to stay in Scotland where they should be able to receive funding.

as far as I can see for HNC they met the entry requirements and should be funded and get a bursary. Then they could be considered on the basis of that for entry to university in 2024 but I am unsure if they will then have the same issue with the places like Stirling as they still won’t have AABBB at higher!

that elusive extra A is just out of reach for them!

at this stage if they weren’t feeling so jaded the best thing to do is to work their socks off and get the two A’s in May and then see if they can apply in clearing but just worried that their confidence has been so knocked. S5 was such a struggle due to poor teaching (F prediction ended up as a B due to an amazing tutor who saved the day) and I through my s6 might be hard but appear to have underestimated just how hard!

@hugznotdrugz if your were able to provide some advice I would really appreciate it thank you!

I have looked at OU but not sure they would learn well as only 17 and very much seem to need the school type teaching (they did not cope at all well learning during lockdown again due to total lack of support from school (and from me as I was working) and that has not helped their ability to do well in exams either!)

@mapleleavesreturn that’s interesting to hear. That sounds very like my child’s approach - they just love the subject. I didn’t realise just how competitive entry was - Glasgow, Strathclyde, Edinburgh and St Andrew’s all look for straight A’s whereas I got unconditional offers for similar degrees when I applied in the 90’s with far lower grades.

I only wanted to go to one place to do it too, based on one public lecture I saw at an open day. I applied for various hybrid agrees too but I was only really wanting that one place and luckily things were easier in the 90s.

Good luck - I completely understand about the debt aversion and worrying about earnings.

Thanks @Calmdown14 I totally agree with your view of having an understanding of what the options are. that is just what I find so disappointing. That was the case for me when I was at school - expected to go on to university (much easier to get in then though I wouldn’t get in either now!) so sad that things have not improved in 30 years. feel my child is being let down by the school (who I thought would help but they seem to be only interested in Ucas)

unfortunately they do not meet any widening access criteria. I had thought they would but no. If they did they would get unconditional offers for the ones we were looking at and conditionals for the others we ruled out as quite a difference (AABB becomes BBBB and AAAAA becomes ABBB). But their school has high progression into HE and we live in a medium income area so not Simd20 but does meet the acorn criteria that not many universities use.

Have you used the WhatUni app/website? You can filter courses by Scotland and enter the grades (I tried but I don’t understand Scottish qualifications sorry) and it should show any other Scottish unis that your DC might be able to apply for?

There are also things like museums studies which have a more defined career path. Not a well paid one but one you do for the love.

In the first year there will be a big overlap on lots of courses and options to take history modules so ask about these at open days etc to widen the options.

If the issue is that they are good at history but lack the other subjects to get in then they may be able to switch later.

I would just try every avenue you can to help your child see some of the less visible options.

Aberdeen has an amazing archaeology department and there's overlap into other subjects like biology with osteoarchaeology for example. It's fascinating stuff

I did my history BA in my twenties, as did two of my friends. We all agree we got far more out of it than we would have if we'd done it straight from school. It's a subject where a bit of life experience really brings a greater depth of understanding.

And we all went on to do higher degrees.

if DS wants to study history for love of the subject, rather than just to get a degree, I'd recommend working for a couple of years to gain some maturity and life experience (and earn some money, which will give him more options when it comes to choosing a university.)

meanwhile he can keep up his studies with the OU, or independent study - many universities have their reading lists available online. He will have more time to discover which aspects of history he is really interested in studying, which will help him in choosing a course.

You could apply to UCAS, then when the results come though, go to clearing.

Otherwise you might start looking at some other way DC could pursue their interest in history. Perhaps by volunteering for the National Trust for Scotland, work at historic building, then work their way up to paid job ? Or the same at Scottish museums.

Take a look at Dumfries House where Prince Charles has instigated multiple specialist training schemes for young people and disadvantaged people to make a real career. If you haven't visited it yet, it's well worth going for a look.

Screen kept freezing, so thought I had better post before I lost what I had written. I meant to conclude by saying that when he is a bit older, he can try alternative routes, such as accumulating credits from OU studies. When he has identified a course he is interested in, the department will probably give advice.

As a historian myself, I wish him well.

Afterthought;

Most universities maintain a professional careers advisory service. In those services there are trained career specialists who (if you enquire) may undertake paid private consults (using all the skills and assessment facilities at their disposal).

It could be a very good investment.