Child keen to go to University but below entry requirements

[Tig33]

Hello
I have posted a few times about the challenges my DC is having at secondary school, well in terms of ASN support (or lack of) and SQA qualifications. They have their heart set on studying history and I am doing my best to support them to get there but it is not going to be easy!

They got an A at Nat 5 history but a B at higher, along with three other B’s. So this ruled out most Scottish universities as requirements are AAAA+.

Aberdeen, Dundee and Stirling offer history and have requirements between AABB and AABBB. As DC has gone from predictions of ACCF to BBBB we were hopeful that with hard work they could achieve AA in s6.

unfortunately the school don’t think so and have predicted a B in AH history and two further Bs at higher.

so if DC achieves predictions they would have (what would be treated as) ABBBBB over two sittings.

so below requirements. School are providing no advice and are just going through the motions of ucas process. I don’t see the point of applying as surely likely to be rejected.

all (and I do mean all!) of their peers (and my friends kids) have a clutch of A’s from S5 so I don’t know anyone in same boat and am struggling.

their friends are starting to get unconditional offers already (many are early applicants) and I really don’t think it would be good for DC to be in s6 with a peer group getting all offers when they get all reactions.

I have emailed school to suggest that maybe a ucas application is NOT wise and would it not be better from them to apply to college this year and so an HNC.

the only university that they meet the requirements for is UHI and from what I can see the first year is v similar to the HNC social sciences offered throughout Scotland so DC could stay at home and then apply through ucas next year with hope of being predicted a B in the HNC.

they mentioned Northumbria university which has entry requirements on ucas point which they could potentially meet but I am less keen on them taking on fee debt and would far prefer them to be able to attend a Scottish university.

in terms of their ASN the universities we spoke to said they would get support while at university. Just seems so back to front that they cannot get support at high school so are struggling to get grades needed to get in but if they got in they would be supported.

any advice or ideas would be much appreciated thank you.

will try posting in the HE board but think that SQA highers cause confusion!

Dd didn't have the grades at 18 either, she did three years of college and is now at Glasgow Uni studying Micro Biology, after turning down a Sutton Trust scholarship to St Andrews.
She's 21 which is still so young in the grand scheme of things.
There's other ways of getting there, don't give up.

It may be worthwhile emailing Aberdeen admissions and asking if there’s any likelihood in getting an offer with these grades. My ds got in (for engineering though) with grades under the minimum required and they were very helpful when I emailed on information re admissions for my dd.

careers adviser here. Please encourage your DC to make an appointment with their careers adviser at school to go through all their options and entry requirements.
Don't rule out the newer universities rather than just Glasgow, Aberdeen etc. Their grade requirements can be lower but their degrees just as good.
Rather than History on its own, why not consider a social sciences degree that includes History alongside other subjects?
If your DC is in S6, they may still get some good Highers this year that will open up some university routes.
Have a look at the planitplus.net website to search for courses and entry requirements - look for both history and social science courses.
Personally, I think college is a waste if someone has as many highers as your DC does, unless of course, they don't feel mature enough for university.
Side note - I studied History at Strathclyde although it was Arts and Social Sciences and I got to do 5 different subjects in my first year. I very much enjoyed having the option to try new subjects.

If they are only 17, why not do further highers and enter university at 18. Most universities in Britain do not take under 18's regularly, it's a quirk of the Scottish system, so yes Scottish universities have some under 18's but not many as they take additional qualifications before applying

Apologies if this has already been suggested but how would your DC feel about taking a gap year and applying through UCAS with their actual grades already in hand? It would give them a chance to mature a bit, earn some money and any offers they then get will be unconditional because they aren't waiting for anything.
My DS did this and it really worked for him. School should be happy to complete their section on the UCAS form as it will be early in the new term.

Have you tried careers advice through Skills Development Scotland? Our school really push this service.

Sounds like an HND/C May be the best option here. It's very common to get direct entry to second year of a degree.

Also Historic Environment Scotland run apprenticeship schemes that look really interesting: www.historicenvironment.scot/learn/skills-and-training/apprentices-and-trainees/

Sorry if this has been covered - it's a really long detailed thread! I don't have time to read it all.

My son liked history too. One paper was all it took for him to really dislike the subject. It was all finding references from respectable sources to back up every statement. It was all a bit mechanical. I know several other people who found the same thing with history. Classics was much better because there's a limited number of original sources. My son is doing a classics minor in a psychology degree. He was not a strong student and really struggled in his early years but he was heavily tutored and is making a decent fist of things.

The Open University could be a good option. Online learning and tutor support by phone and email.

Lots of good advice above. I agree email Aberdeen but also Dundee and Stirling to ask if there's any chance with those predictions. It's worth a shot at a conditional offer if they would make one, even if it's a stretch, you never know results can be better than predicted.

Was going to say the same. My DS did this (with my guidance) and basically said that he was passionate about the subject (not history but same department) and the Uni and currently had X grades and was hoping for X in his 6th year exams and would this be enough to be considered for place. They were very good in their reply and it was the only offer he received and it was lower than advertised. He'll be graduating soon. He also had some SEN but I can't comment on the support as he didn't take any!

To add, he also applied to Dundee and Stirling x 2 and didn't get any offers but then also didn't email the admissions/head of department either.

Historian here (won’t say where). Sorry, I don’t know what ASN stands for—is it classed as a disability? If so they may qualify for a contextual offer under the widening access policy. For example, at dundee, disability gets you a level 2 contextual “flag’. If this is accepted, a contextual offer would be BBBB. Most other universities run this system, obviously grades needed will vary and there’s no guarantee they would get an offer. There are other circumstances that would get you a level 1 flag. Stirling also runs this, although it’s less clear whether a disability counts. You could always speak to the widening access departments at the universities.

www.dundee.ac.uk/corporate-information/contextual-admissions-policy

in my experience, universities are very good at supporting people with additional needs, although some really struggle still. My uni has lots of support options—specific help with disabilities, peer mentoring, academic skills tuition, counselling and quite a lot more.

Wow thank you all so much for all of the advice I really appreciate it.

By ASN I mean that they have diagnosed additional support needs: diagnosed as DCD developmental coordination disorder also known as dyspraxia. They really struggle with fine motor skills (find it really had to write so have completely illegible handwriting), gross motor skills (clumsy and uncoordinated), planning and organising and processing - ie many many of the skills that are needed to perform well in exams. So even though they are bright and intelligent and work hard they really struggle to keep up with peers. In class they are great and contribute well. Teachers speak highly as well behaved and cooperative and keen to learn.

I am not sure if that would count as a disability in widening access. The school so not seem to think so (although despite them having the diagnosis from primary school I have to remind them regularly that he will struggle with these things and they still often expect hand written assessments )

we have had a chat this afternoon and he is just so deflated.

In Scotland most students do two years in the senior phase and take exams both years- highers in s5 (generally the entry qualifications for Scottish university- most students take some and very able high achievers take five) and then advanced highers in s6 (similar to A levels - really able high achievers would take three of those) my child did four highers in s5 and is taking one advanced higher and three further highers in s6.

stirling Dundee Aberdeen and UHI are the only Scottish institutions that we can find that don’t need straight A’s which is why we focussed on them.

there are lots of options for kids with straight A’s, some for kids with A’s and B’s and very few for a straight B student like my child!

I can remember when most universities in Scotland wanted three B’s at higher or three c’s at A level.

will look into other options like getting some relevant work experience. A year or two to mature and catch up with peers emotionally, academically and physically might be just what he needs. He still gets asked if he is under 16 a lot and if it was an option my preference would be for him to repeat s6 (at a different school) as the school environment works well for his learning (ideally with some suitable support)

it is really heartening to hear from others whose kids have been through this as I feel so alone with no one to turn to so thank you @haggisaggis @BinBandit and @JohnsShirt

I think it wold be best for him not to apply this year and to apply next year with achieved grades (if they are ok) but will email the potential universities and see what they say.

thanks again everyone

My son is in a similar position in England.
Most universities in England have widening access/participation schemes, whereby if you meet certain criteria you can get a lower offer - main ones being ethnicity, disability and care experienced.
Some unis refer to them as contextual offers. I'd hope Scottish unisex have similar.
The other option would be degrees with a foundation year.

Scottish Unis do have similar, hence Dd's St Andrews scholarship.
As I said though, she turned that down and is at Glasgow completely on her own merit, albeit a few years later than her peers.
Don't think that top Unis ignore alternative routes either, Dd is the proof that they don't, she applied for 5 and got 5 offers, Dundee was unconditional.
Obviously I've already mentioned Glasgow and StA, she also got offers from Strathclyde and Aberdeen.

Blame the scottish government for the way HE is funded. We get a capped number of places and funding is being cut all the time. We get less than £2k per year for each Scottish student, which means we operate at a loss—even in the humanities.

This means that there is huge competition for places for Scottish students. I’m at a mid-level uni (none of the ones you’ve mentioned) but we still have 10 applicants for every place. We take English students at lower grades as they’re paying and we have no cap on their numbers. Basically, we need international and the rest of the UK students to (barely) survive.

I say this as admissions tutor for a history department at a Scottish university so I know my stuff!

will look into other options like getting some relevant work experience.

Any job will be worthwhile, whether it's relevant to his intended degree or otherwise.

(He could probably walk into something in hospitality tomorrow, with Christmas coming up.)

Would DC consider going to England?
My DC1 has a friend who didn't get grades (not history but a very similar soc science) to get into any Scottish university but is now in 2nd year at University of Chester and loving the course. Has s lot of overlap with history dept.
They ask for BBBB at higher

Those of you who work in universities - if the school is a low achieving school, and only a small number of leavers go into HE, does that count as widening access? DD wouldn't count for any of the other reasons (not ethnic, disabled or care experienced or from one of those SIMD postcodes).

Annoying as it is, you need to look at the policies for each Uni, at least that was our experience. As you say, some go by postcode or the other categories listed, but I've definitely seen a reason for a contextual offer being a school with low numbers going to higher education. I couldn't tell you which ones now, but it definitely was a thing.

Hi @CrabbitBastard my understanding is yes a low achieving school can count but as binbandit says each university seems to have different rules. At places I have looked at there are lots of criteria - some based on postcode, some on education etc but the gist is that universities consider each person and their application in context so they look at grades but also other factors so if an application meets the criteria (which can include ‘low achieving school’) there can be different entry requirements.

he does have some work experience but I have suggested that he gives up his job to focus on this study now to get the best possible grades then to get another job in may after the exams. He is helping at school with junior classes at the moment which I hope will give him some confidence. This is so tough. He is such a lovely kind, bright, I funny boy it is hard to see him lose his sense of self as he is just not quite at the level required but just seems so close.

he has looked at English universities and considers Northumbria as they seem to base entry on UCAS points think they need 120 and he has 108 already so likely to have 120 after S6 even if things go much worse then predicted. I am very risk averse though and scared of getting into debt. Being Scottish and old I didn’t have any student debt. I was very fortunate to have my fees paid and £770 per term grant while a student (plus part time job) so would prefer for him to be able to access Scottish HE and have benefit of having fees paid. Realise that is why it is so competitive to get in though!

Yeah, I wouldn't go with English Unis unless there's something very particular your DS wants at one.
It makes no sense given it's free here.
I say this assuming finances are a consideration, if they aren't then obviously ignore my post.

Dundee Uni does an entrance into second year History (MA) combination with doing a first year is social sciences at Dundee and Angus college. That way they could get in with lower qualifications and still get to the second year of the university course. First 2 years of Dundee are very flexible for choices in the Humanities.

Both my DC have ASN and have found Dundee and Angus and Dundee Uni incredibly supportive.

Also look to see if your DC meets any of the widening access requirements.

www.dundee.ac.uk/corporate-information/contextual-admissions-policy