BBC news saying Scotland discussed possibility of wealthy being expected to pay for nhs treatment

[Ruizy]

Feeling a bit horrified at the prospect of this proposal. Surely it would just mean those above a certain wage would have to take out bupa style insurance. But not sure what would happen to emergency care.

And all those having the sparky 'ha they have money, make them pay I need it more' what's your thoughts when all those who provide care and treatment leave because they're fed up with the system so no-one to provide it?

But under European insurance based models people seem to get annual check ups. All my EU friends go back to their home countries for their annual MOT's. It's a normal part of taking responsibility for your own health, which is something in the UK also seems to be sadly lacking.

@KnittedCardi People who are migrants for better jobs tend to be the people with most resilience and good mental health. The kind of people who will already take responsibility for their own health in the UK.

You can get a free annual check up on the NHS by the way, a friend has one every year. But it really is not necessary if you already keep an eye on things like your blood pressure.

The people who will be left behind are the most vulnerable. People with mental health problems, people with learning disabilities, carers too busy to take care of themselves, homeless people, etc. These are people who already struggle to access healthcare. Charging for it will just mean many of these people die even younger.

walkinginsunshinekat

both main parties have totally different ideas on the NHS, the Tories ultimately want a privatised service (whatever they say) and Labour don't

Hmm, but here we are: it's SNP and Labour suggesting that the NHS will only be available to some people and everyone else will need to take out insurance.

If SNP pursue this I will not vote for them and neither will many people in the UK.

Well put.

Currently many pay more but receive less but it’s fine because the system is there to access just in case. Take that away and people won’t want to pay for an inaccessible service - then what will those who rely on others’ funding do then?

To be fair the article reads like it was a brainstorming session where anything and everything goes

Not a "this is seriously being considered "

Yup

Only a few short years ago if I had been in hospital for any reason that I needed feeding, I would have said forget it, I've no money, I'll go hungry. Ill people dont get better without decent food.
And now that I have a bit more money and could afford food I'd do exactly as dinoteeth suggests, get uber or just eat to deliver.
We either fund the NHS properly and have many times fewer managers, or we let it go and muddle through with people unable to afford it dying or living utterly miserable lives and those who can afford private or insurance being just fine.
I would straddle the divide, I could afford insurance probably, but if long term stuff isnt covered I'd die anyway.

If it was truly very wealthy individuals then I’d have less problem with it but knowing how things are here it would probably start at people on about £25k.

In all developed nations people who can afford it "pay twice": you pay for your own health insurance and you pay through taxes for the state health cover of people who can't afford to pay for their own. One way or another that's inevitable in a functioning society, even the US pays enormous amounts for Medicaid and Medicare out of general taxation. The only alternative is letting the poor die.

I actually believe the NHS should review what it funds, start by looking a baby boxes, gender clinic's, and fertility treatments.

I agree, it seems that the NHS is now expected to be all things to all people and provide all things to all people all of the time and that is not sustainable.

Also agree with the points about people not taking responsibility for their own health and expecting the NHS to just fix it. There seems to be an awful lot of abuse of the services of the NHS.

Don’t start on fertility treatments! I have barely used the NHS in my Iife and avoid doctors at all costs but required IUI for my family as my husband me infertile. For various reasons we couldn’t get NHS care and spent thousands. We were lucky we could but it preys on my mind how utterly unfair it all is. Had we been poor, we wouldn’t have a family

The take responsibility for their own health message annoys me.
It is people who are struggling the most mentally who are most likely to smoke, drink and not take exercise.
Eating healthily is much easier when you have money to buy ready chopped vegetables, healthy prepared foods or have the time.
Paying for medical treatment makes zero difference. Look at the US with the most expensive health treatment in the world, and the fattest population with many not taking any exercise.
Charging makes zero difference to people's behaviour, it simply means poor people die younger.

I also dread the idea of an insurance scheme. I am a very part time carer for a relative with mental health problems. There is no way he could navigate an insurance company and private healthcare. I would end up having to do this for him. And those without relatives just would not get any care.

@TrixJax you're right on that one.

The problem with charging for the NHS is that there will always be losers and won't be those who abuse the system (who are few and far between anyway)

An insurance system does not mean an American system.
I have friends and relatives living in France. Everyone pays insurance that covers health care. You pay according to your income and those who don't have an income get free health care. The quality of services is very good, particularly in mental health and women's health.
The other thing that is interesting about the French system is that if you do your nursing training on leaving school it is free.

@endofthelinefinally You still have an excess you have to pay.
The French health system is more costly than the UK one. Of course it is better.

I work in the NHS, in hospital services, as part of a clinical team.

We are all of the view that there's been a deliberate running-down of services, so that those who are wealthy enough will go private out of frustration.

We're all doing our best in difficult circumstances.

Staffing is the main issue - as those leave, for a variety of reasons eg promotion, retirement - we can't recruit to replace. Who is queuing up to work in over-stretches, stressful, under paid roles?

And that's why no-one wants to be a community carer, so people can't be discharged from hospital.

And the whole mess continues.

But isn't this the same as the UK eg we pay national insurance for the NHS?

Are they private insurance companies?

The NHS needs to be reformed but this is not the way to do it.

If central government suggested this she would have been apoplectic. SNP need to stop assuming everyone who earns over £45k are rich and remove the crap like baby boxes and free prescriptions.

I'm not saying I am in favour of a private system, but at least with the vet you can get treatment more or less instantly for your sick animal.

It is the lack of GPs that is the issue and Drs and nurses. Why do you think paying would suddenly increase their number? It won't.
Already you can wait as long to see specialist privately as you do on the NHS. If every GP and Dr was private, it would take as long as it does now, but would cost more.

Does France cover things like gender changes, fertility treatment, etc?

Is there MH care better than the NHS?
Do they cover care for dementia patients? Because that gets me that if you are terminal with physical illness you care is covered but if your terminal with brain illnesses tough shit Jack pay your own fees.

There is a basic element of the NHS is just under funded.
We all want the Rolls Royce of health care but paying Lada prices for it.

I don't disagree with that point, just with the idea of holding veterinary care up as a bad example, because in my experience it has always been a very efficient system, even at the height of Covid your animal could see a vet same day if needed.

Target the agencies that bleed money out of the system. Provide bursaries for health care training because I can't reasonably fathom why anyone would pay out of their ownnpocket to do it. Then we'd have plenty of health care workers and wouldn't have to depend on agencies charging over twice as much as what the staff receive, massive volumes of money saved. Honestly the solutions are so obvious but they refuse to target agencies because they're all chums.

Well yes of course. But surely most people would be happy to pay a bit more for good health care, based on income? Rather than paying NI into a system that is failing so many?
It is certainly way better than the American system that is in thrall to big pharma and leaves so many with no health care.
My friends are not big earners by any means, but they get excellent care at a reasonable cost.