BBC news saying Scotland discussed possibility of wealthy being expected to pay for nhs treatment

[Ruizy]

Feeling a bit horrified at the prospect of this proposal. Surely it would just mean those above a certain wage would have to take out bupa style insurance. But not sure what would happen to emergency care.

One thing I don't understand about the push for everyone to take on private health insurance is how that sector would cope with the increase in demand. One of the biggest problems facing the NHS is staff availability - there just aren't enough doctors and nurses to go round. If the private sector suddenly had to expand to cope with the extra people using it, where are they going to get the staff (and hospitals!) from? From the already-strapped NHS...?

Can i charge them for the amount of time i went in and fed my mum? or does your idea just work one way?

I think that the NHS should be taken out of the political arena and all political parties to come together to decide the future of the NHS.
The NHS is no longer fit for purpose.

As others have said, the current problem with talk of private health care and insurances in the UK is the issue of pre-existing conditions. Most people who use the health service are the elderly - it's really not the sprightly 30 year olds who come in and come out. It's the over 60s with lots of different conditions that will be excluded.

The reason why people are often touting the US model - is literally because its the American companies that are trying to get in and are therefore structuring the debate. I quite liked the Swiss system but it's almost as expensive as the American one.

In practice, few people in the UK have the cash for private healthcare. Also in the US - it's mostly paid by the employer - again not something we often see in the UK.

If the UK went private, it would mainly mean a lot of middle class pensioners really struggling or having to sell their houses to afford healthcare like they do with the care fees. Whenever we think of health - think the elderly - and have a look at what happens in the care system.

Switzerland has a very different system. If you can afford it you must pay for health insurance. If you can't afford cover, the state pays. Insurance companies have to take everyone at the same rate, regardless of risk or pre-existing conditions, pre-existing conditions are covered.

That's what I was meaning when I said earlier that other countries must have a different set up for private health insurance. I gather insurance in Switzerland is eye-wateringly expensive!
The problem is in uk people would be paying twice, their NI contributions towards NHS and then those who are deemed wealthy enough to pay would also have insurance.
I think that's maybe the case in Ireland and Australia though that already have 2 tier system? Anyone know?

But the SNP seem to be able to fund all sorts of extras child payments, baby boxes etc.

Yet those who are earning £45k are paying more tax than they would in England. Going to need private insurance.

What's the incentive for Doctors, Dentists and other 'wealthy' NHS workers to stay in Scotland?

Don't kid yourself if you think these people won't be looking thinking I'll be £5/6k a year better off living in the North of England than here.

Can't happen because both main parties have totally different ideas on the NHS, the Tories ultimately want a privatised service (whatever they say) and Labour don't - the evidence is that they have, over the years, sold off every single public service we have ever had, why not the NHS ?

Anyone who thinks the Tories aren't talking about charging for NHS services is a fool, Sunak publicly said he wanted to charge for missed appointments.

It's a disgrace

We pay a fortune in tax already and have paid into the nhs for years.

It's like taking someone pension off them at the last minute.

What do they mean by wealthy. Over 50k over 100k and millionaire

Someone in a normal job be it good pay won't be wealthy for long if the insurance won't pay like in the US.

I'm in England but massively oppose this.

Sounds like a good start, because we need an insurance-based model for everyone.

The constant take by the left just drives funds away. It’s self defeating. It’s ideological and some love it as it’s based on meanness but economically it’s crazy.

If the wealthy are being told to make their own arrangements with their healthcare and no longer being part of the system of paying taxes towards the NHS, how on earth is that going to help when the NHS is only paid for by the lower earners, including many non-taxpayers?

Or are they seriously expecting the wealthy to keep paying for the NHS but not actually being allowed to use it? Still heavily subsidise the service for less well-off people but not be entitled to use it themselves? How could that possibly be considered fair by anybody's standards? Why don't we also force the wealthy to employ their own private police, build their own roads, pay to have their bins emptied etc.?

Society works by expecting those who are able to do so to pay proportionately more into the system - but then effectively excluding them from being any part of that society that they're paying more than most towards is just the politics of hatred and envy.

@walkinginsunshinekat, one way I'm afraid. It is a National Health Service not a cafe. All patients should pay for own food. I think a lot of people do go in and feed their loved ones but not all supply food for them relying instead on feeding them hospital paid for food. Something has to give as the NHS can't go on as it is as it's a black hole for funding.

I can't believe those that want an insurance based system. You know insurance company's can't be trusted right?

You know there are people in the US that have remortagaged to the hilt or worst lost their house because of insurance company's.

What if your teen gets a serious illness close to being an adult . Let them die or lose your house?

What if your mum or dad need cancer care. A heart op
????

Imagine your vet bill. Triple it and no euthanasia option like for a pet.

Do you REALLY want that.

I'd rather pay more tax than go down that route.

I think there are many ways we could raise extra money for the NHS.

Agree about the food. You could ask for a contribution for anyone not on benefits/ state pension.
Similarly with the advent of QR codes, ways to donate money etc it would be easy to have voluntary contributions. : Happy with your treatment today, please help us provide the same for others' type campaign. Then if you can't afford it you don't pay but many people want to contribute something, especially if your life has been saved. Be better than overwhelming nurses with chocolates.

Be especially nice if you could leave messages of thanks that get displayed on the screens or such like

But its not, recent research out recently from the Nuffield Trust showed that the UK has spent approx 20% less on healthcare than European comparable countries, yet we keep comparing ourselves to the french etc - you get what you pay for and we ve spent less by 1 or 2 % p.a for decades and that adds up.

Good quality food is part of getting well more quickly, you may as well suggest charging for drugs or crutches.

However, i see nothing wrong with a small charge for GP and hospital appointments, subject to the usual exemptions and free prescriptions for the over 60s should end or be means tested.

I know people complain about vets bills and insurance premiums and exclusions. That is privatised healthcare for animals. Human healthcare would become the same. The only people it would benefit are those wanting to get rich because of it.

@walkinginsunshinekat Charging for GP appointments will simply lead to more people in A and E. It will also lead to more cancer undetected until a later stage. It is hard enough already to get older people to go to the GP if they have bloody stools for example. A charge will reduce the amount of people going.
Also a really high percentage of people going to the GP are really there for mental health problems. Cutting off one of the few avenues of support for mental health ill not help our society.

@walkinginsunshinekat

Scotland has free prescriptions for everyone, not just over 60s. We dont pay for prescriptions at all.

Has anyone noticed that the Scottish government (Mr Yousaf) is misquoting Bevan about the original goals of the NHS

The original goals: 'free at the point of delivery, and based on clinical need not on the ability to pay'

Has somehow mutated to: 'free at the point of need'

Presumably in preparation for saying that rich people don't need it.

Bloody devious bastards.

Ramsey health care Australia bought out the Spire in July for £1 billion. Their earlier lower offer was rejected.

But I think that's a crucial part of the conversation ... Scotland's "free" prescriptions aren't free really, they're only free at the point of use (like the rest of the NHS currently). But ultimately they're paid for by tax revenue .... and the question therefore is how much do we want to contribute in taxes, for which services, and what do we do about anything that falls outwith that?

Anyone who thinks the Tories aren't talking about charging for NHS services is a fool, Sunak publicly said he wanted to charge for missed appointments.
I see a point to that, people don't want to accept that this is a huge factor in waiting lists!

Prescription free in Wales too

Quite a few HCP's work in both systems already. A lot of part-time NHS employees work their other days in the private system.

One issue of charging for food is you'd need to make sure the cost stay low or you'll end up with a never ending stream of take-aways, uber eats &, just eat, guys wandering in and out of hospitals.

You also need to be careful that people actually eat, some will be thinking 'shit I'm on SSP I can barely afford the rent, the heating still needs paid, I'll just skip the food, thanks'

I actually believe the NHS should review what it funds, start by looking a baby boxes, gender clinic's, and fertility treatments.

A believe we just need to accept tax goes up to pay for stuff but it needs to be across the board taxes not targeted at just those earning £45k