4 day week

[Fandangoes]

Apologies if someone has already started a thread about this, I did check but couldn't see one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a good work / life balance but how on earth can SNP promise to introduce a 4 day working week for everyone, on the same pay and expect private businesses to accommodate that? Especially when so many businesses are fighting to survive coming out of this pandemic.

How is this supposed to work?

@Fandangoes

I notice none of the posters defending this 4 day week have answered my question whether they have actually asked their employer if they can work a 4 day week. If that’s what you want to do and you the industry you work can support it you should be able to put your case forward without a problem. What I suspect is the issue really is that you don’t want to take the corresponding pay cut that would currently be expected.

Nobody is defending it as such are they? Some people are saying it might be interesting to find out about it.

I would not be granted a 4 day week under flexible working. Business needs do not currently allow it (not technically a business but still).

I assume this has been focus-grouped.

It must be either a) popular b) a good idea or c) both because savvy political parties don't usually propose policies that aren't. Unless they plan to have the trial to kill it, which is possible I suppose.

Haha on that basis all policies from all parties would be popular, a good idea or both??

@Fandangoes

Haha on that basis all policies from all parties would be popular, a good idea or both??

They are usually, yes, to their target voters. I disagree with much that particular parties propose but can see why they propose them.

What I'm trying to say is - the SNP are polling around 50%, they're not stupid, presumably it is popular?

@Fandangoes

I notice none of the posters defending this 4 day week have answered my question whether they have actually asked their employer if they can work a 4 day week. If that’s what you want to do and you the industry you work can support it you should be able to put your case forward without a problem. What I suspect is the issue really is that you don’t want to take the corresponding pay cut that would currently be expected.

Isn’t that the whole point though? People may prefer to work less hours but cannot afford to do so. The outcome then is that a) they stay on the longer hours and end up with sickness absence which costs employers money and productivity or b) they do not qualify for sick pay so then suffer from presenteeism as they cannot afford to go off sick and yet are not productive either. I accept there are people who neither go off sick and are productive in which case it’s a big win for them as they will get paid the same for less hours but I think the savings in absenteeism and boosted productivity is from the first two categories.

I imagine the government believe they would need to fund this trial to help convince businesses to try it.

Apparently uk-wide around two-thirds support the idea of a four day week (according to Dr Google)

None of the PPs defending this ridiculous policy have answered my question.
So I repeat: Where are the SNP going to find an extra 20% of doctors, surgeons and nurses to cover all those extra days off for existing staff?

@Babdoc

None of the PPs defending this ridiculous policy have answered my question. So I repeat: Where are the SNP going to find an extra 20% of doctors, surgeons and nurses to cover all those extra days off for existing staff?

It's not a policy it's a trial.

I've got real mixed feelings about this one.
I'm not opposed in principal, but the timing is iffy both in terms of a clear vote grabbing tactic IMHO, and also the appropriateness of pushing for this trial when really none of us know what the job/economic situation will be when furlough ends.
Would prefer to watch and wait and revisit a couple of years post pandemic.

@beginningoftheend

Apparently uk-wide around two-thirds support the idea of a four day week (according to Dr Google)

if you ask people if they would like to work 4 days instead of 5 they are going to say yes.

If you ask people if they would like to work 4 days, lose 20% of their salary or do compressed hours instead, the answers would be different.

forfucksakenett, call it whatever you like. You still haven’t explained how it could possibly work for the NHS - the biggest employer in Scotland.

@Indiana2021 I agree, it's the timing that seems off.

Maybe it is a good idea in principal, but right now when we're facing a huge economic crisis and still aren't completely out of the woods from coronavirus poptart, it's just a headline grabbing vote winner.

As I said up thread, I work a 4 day week by sacrificing the extra salary. Most companies have flexible working policies these days so that people can make individual choices. WFH has revolutionised work for many and pace of change has been increased by the pandemic.

But I do realise many of these options are not available to the lowest paid. I'd like to see recognition of the most fundamental issues first. Get rid of zero hours contracts, ensure care home staff get a living wage. If there's extra money to throw around let's think if there is anything we can do to push back the new retirement ages - do we genuinely want 66 year old teachers or paramedics?

@Babdoc

forfucksakenett, call it whatever you like. You still haven’t explained how it could possibly work for the NHS - the biggest employer in Scotland.

I'll call it what it is which is a trial.

It probably wouldn't work for the NHS in all honesty. I can't see it working in education either but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea for those companies and employees who can benefit from it.

All jobs have pros and cons.

Poptart? Damn the autocorrect.

I can’t agree that it’s a good idea. As a PP said it’s all about how you ask the question and also what they mean by a 4 day week. A true 4 day week would mean most services only being available 4 days a week instead of 5. Say Mon - Thurs. That would be extremely frustrating in so many ways I don’t believe people truly want that.
The poorest in society are more likely to be on zero hour contracts so a 4 day week certainly isn’t going to help them.
I believe increasing the minimum wage to realistic levels and enforcing employers to allow flexible working, increasing employees rights in this area achieves what we seem to agree on being a better work life balance for more people

So we agree it wouldn’t work for the biggest employer in Scotland. Thank you. Just a rainbows and unicorns vote grabber then.

Not all roles in the NHS will be difficult to work in a more flexible basis. There are many many jobs within the NHS that could be given more flexibility and thus creating more jobs to cover the 24/7 service. I accept for the more specialised roles that take many years of training there just won’t be the number of qualified people to make this possible. Likewise with teaching and other specialised jobs.
So alongside increasing min wage and employees rights to flexible working let’s add schemes to encourage and support more people to train up for these specialised roles to make it a possibility in the future.

It’s also not just highly educated jobs that would be hard to fill, there are also many lower paid jobs where we just wouldn’t have enough trained people so it would take time to train them up - hgv drivers, plumbers, electricians, bricklayers to name but only a few.

And lets not forget, this is a party that has been in power for 14 years, made many promises that haven't been delivered, failed to run the basics to any competent degree and we are supposed to think that these are progressive issues that we can all benefit from? pull the other one.

The party in power should be campaigning on what a wonderful job they have done so far and looking to build on that - i don't get that flavour from anything i've seen.

@Fandangoes

It’s also not just highly educated jobs that would be hard to fill, there are also many lower paid jobs where we just wouldn’t have enough trained people so it would take time to train them up - hgv drivers, plumbers, electricians, bricklayers to name but only a few.

In essence, these jobs would still be the same hours but they'd be getting overtime I suppose.

So not helping their mental health and well-being then?

@Fandangoes

So not helping their mental health and well-being then?

Nope. Unless their wellbeing is helped by more income of course... Not that I expect that to happen either.

She’s been promising money out her arse for everyone and their dog the last few weeks. There’s no way in hell Scotland can afford everything she’s promising, especially not with independence on top of it all. It looks like a desperate bid to stay in power now. But none of the other political parties are putting up much of a fight so I can see yet another few years dealing with them.

@Babdoc

So we agree it wouldn’t work for the biggest employer in Scotland. Thank you. Just a rainbows and unicorns vote grabber then.

It would probably work for some areas of the NHS surely?

On a purely selfish basis if my boss said to me do you want to work 4 days for the same money of course I would say yes and I know I could do my job over 4 days without impacting the business.
But I’m not selfish and it’s not difficult to see that this wouldn’t be any help to far too many people and there are much better ways to improve life for more of those most in need