Ding Ding Ding! Round 5 Salmond and Sturgeon

[Blurberoo]

New thread...

I think Boris Johnson’s hair looks worse and worse. Someone should do something. But of course it’s part of his bumbling image.

Appearance is one of the ways politicians lie to us I guess.

You linked the daily mail, their summation of FM appearance is she used to look like Jimmy krankie, however now her ankle is slim.

And no I don’t have cult like devotion, I’m not a sycophant. I simply think Ms Sturgeon has been a calm and able leader during covid

I agree. This is what makes me laugh, if you express the slightest bit of doubt on here about any of this conspiracy stuff you're told you're 'part of a cult' and accused of 'adulation'. I'm not the one sitting googling her house, her clothes etc etc!!
honestly couldn't give a shit what her house looks like, outside or in.
But I think many here have a bit of an obsession
Oh well, proves you've lost the argument I suppose when about all you can come up with is 'Nicola Sturgeon bought a house.'

Ohh FFS, we were discussing how her image had changed and that she didn't look comfortable. I linked to an article basically referencing the evolution of her style.

Whilst I dislike the woman intensely, i have always said that I don't think people should be slagged off on the basis of things they can't help. her image is something that has been cultivated, I think it's okay to talk about that.

There’s No ffs @RedactedTaeFeck
you linked an article that unfavourably compared a woman to Jimmy Krankie. The dm summation was Used to look like Jimmy Krankie, now has a slim ankle
Article you linked isn’t a timeline of progress, or achievement it is simply taking the piss based on appearance.

witnesses to give false testimony to establish a 'pattern of behaviour'. If that is what happened, and there are a number of very credible people who think it is

Except that wasn't proven was it? and those 'bombshell' whats app messages fell flat didn't they? When they were scrutinised by the inquiry it was shown they didn't prove anything of the sort what Salmond was claiming. The Murell ones too. They ended up just being a big intrusion into people's privacy.
Redacted The fact is it went to trial and he was found innocent, except on one charge of unproven - are you seriously saying that nothing should have been done - the complaints shouldn't have been acted on?

Her appearance is all too often pored over and I agree that it’s often very, very sexist in the way it’s done. However, the makeover is important as it again seems to illustrate the Americanisation of the Sturgeon camp, that and the aggressive legal stuff. She is a fantastic, charismatic speaker and always came over as very believable and human for a politician. She didn’t need the whole heels and tight red dresses thing for Scottish politics IMO but I suppose it has served her well on the global stage. It’s sad that that’s what women or their advisors feel they need to do in order to be taken seriously but here we are.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

There’s No ffs *@RedactedTaeFeck* you linked an article that unfavourably compared a woman to Jimmy Krankie. The dm summation was Used to look like Jimmy Krankie, now has a slim ankle Article you linked isn’t a timeline of progress, or achievement it is simply taking the piss based on appearance.

Give it a rest, eh? No one took the piss.

Anyway, I like her image better now but I do feel that it has been curated to an extent. I was also someone who was unaware that she was married to the Chief Exec until about a month ago - it doesn’t sit right with me but I struggle to articulate why.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

There’s No ffs *@RedactedTaeFeck* you linked an article that unfavourably compared a woman to Jimmy Krankie. The dm summation was Used to look like Jimmy Krankie, now has a slim ankle Article you linked isn’t a timeline of progress, or achievement it is simply taking the piss based on appearance.

Again, I didn't write the article and make no comment on the words, we were talking about the image. And it's not slagging how someone looks when talking about what they choose to wear, we are not talking about their physical features which i think is beyond the pale regardless of whether they are women or men.

Redacted The fact is it went to trial and he was found innocent, except on one charge of unproven - are you seriously saying that nothing should have been done - the complaints shouldn't have been acted on?

I don't know what you are trying to say here? Did I say they shouldn't have been acted upon? They were acted upon and they were unfounded and in some cases probably lies.

No I won’t give it a rest whilst you link a daily mail article about a woman appearance. Btw slender ankle direct dm quote as is Sturgeon is all womanly curves and upright posture. No I won’t give it a rest, I will challenge everyday sexism and reduction of women to their appearance

Do read what Jess Phillip et al say about media treatment and reporting of female politicians appearance

It wasn't me that said give it a rest.

Maybe when NS herself stops throwing women under the bus we can come back and discuss.

I think her makeover is interesting, and potentially a feminist issue, because you don't generally see the same happening with male politicians. They seem to basically stay the same from first election, through ascending the ranks, through holding senior posts. It seems to me to be far more common for women to be expected to curate an image, to be polished. It pisses me off.

I don't get the feeling that Sturgeon is very in to fashion - compared to say Teresa May who I think actually enjoys it. Most of her work outfits are from one shop (I'm not a weirdo stalker, I own a coat from them and the style is distinctive) and to me it seems more like a uniform to her than something she is in to.

I hope she is comfortable in it, because often women end up under far more pressure to look right than men do. Would a female equivalent of Boris have been elected? I doubt it - and I'm only referring to attire/style, don't get me started on the chance of a women with an unspecified number of kids by an unknown number of fathers getting elected!

it doesn’t sit right with me but I struggle to articulate why

Because it presents a really obvious conflict of interests, and people should be able to be confident that an organisation as big as the SNP, the party of government, should adhere to basic standards of governance.

@SempreSuiGeneris

Heels while I agree there is alternate view of this. Many including me had no idea that the FM was married to the Chief Exec of the SNP who rose through the ranks through a 30 year association with Alex Salmond. It is farcical to suggest that the political fortunes of all 3 are not intrinsically linked.

It is striking that even now AS is seeking to use NS as a shield to demolish while keeping the facade in place.

I wasn't previously aware of the issues over Sturgeon's husband & the extent of his involvement in politics in general & specifically the SNP. The information about concerns over the potential conflict of interest with the leader of the SNP & Scotland FM, and her husband being the CEO of the party, was news to me. The fiddling with the NEC, the part of the party structure that Murrell is supposed to be answerable to, was also news to me. When you hear of the apparent activity that senior members of the SNP were engaged in over Salmond (at the same time as ignoring similar concerns over current elected representatives within the SNP) and also see that 3 members of the NEC financial oversight group (proper name escapes me) have resigned because Murrell won't let them see the books (that they are responsible for ensuring are all above board & correct) you can see why the cloaked presence of Murrell is an issue & why Salmond was right to highlight potential issues.

If the likes of Murrell can refuse to allow access to the party's books, to members of the NEC (who are the ones he's supposed to be answerable to) the situation looks dire. It also looks corrupt, even if there's nothing corrupt going on.

There is a malaise thats developed within the SNP under sturgeon & it's certainly a familiar situation with a party that's been in power for so long, especially with the dire & ineffective opposition we have in Scotland. But, just because sturgeon/SNP can run riot with power doesn't mean it's a good thing, or that what they're doing is beneficial for Scotland as a whole or any particular group within it.

I'm saying that your problem seems to be what everyone else has done while ignoring what Salmond did. Whether what he did crossed the line in the eyes of the jury into criminality (obviously they decided it didn't) there is no doubt women were left traumatised by things that happened to them in their place of work. Because of him.
the trial went his way, two inquiries have looked thoroughly into the procedure and what happened. yet he still seems to want to continue this on and on and on...to what end I don't know. What vengeance will ever be enough for him..

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

Side stepping all the FM frothers who get in an indignant haze at mere mention of her name And no I don’t have cult like devotion, I’m not a sycophant. I simply think Ms Sturgeon has been a calm and able leader during covid

I think Salmond will continue to harbour a gripe & grudge that he will habitually seek legal redress, additional inquiries etc in order to pursue his claims that he has been misrepresented, demonised etc. I think he’ll seek to habitually undermine Ms Sturgeon and be a omnipresent complainer. I don’t know how he’ll fund the legal fees, I suppose he has supporters

I think COVID is her comfort zone , health , education and finance are not , she’s way out of her depth and that is probably why she delays on push for independence as knows SG isn’t up to all the detail and negotiation. Suspect she also wants to stand down soon as wants to move on .

A lot of people are probably too busy / not interested in how the country is run . There’s also the case of the missing Indy fund😂

@RedactedTaeFeck

It wasn't me that said give it a rest.

Maybe when NS herself stops throwing women under the bus we can come back and discuss.

This is where 🪨 comes in handy. You'll note the efforts to criticise things not said, or discussed & derails into ridiculous arguments. It's deliberate. Those who want to discuss all things SNP in glowing uncritical terms can set up their own ra-ra thread elsewhere --->

The rest of us can continue with a general discussion about the politics & events surrounding this & Scottish politics in general. Those offended by this thread can create a 'safe space' elsewhere. I'd suggest not engaging with the sycophants as it's a pointless exercise intended to take the focus off of dissecting what's going on with the SNP.

@happygolurkey

I'm saying that your problem seems to be what everyone else has done while ignoring what Salmond did. Whether what he did crossed the line in the eyes of the jury into criminality (obviously they decided it didn't) there is no doubt women were left traumatised by things that happened to them in their place of work. Because of him. the trial went his way, two inquiries have looked thoroughly into the procedure and what happened. yet he still seems to want to continue this on and on and on...to what end I don't know. What vengeance will ever be enough for him..

If I believed that a rape allegation brought against me had been completely fabricated for political purposes I doubt I would feel inclined to quietly sit down and shut up about it.

The women were also left traumatised by the handling of the Scottish Government.

It’s not hard to understand why Salmond would want to continue this on. He likely does think he was subject to unfairness and that it shouldn’t stand, and that the institutions responsible need a clean out. Even if he is guilty of something, he’s still entitled to want that and he may yet achieve it. Two wrongs don’t make a right and all that.

All public figures must be subject to scrutiny and held to account and that inc Ms Sturgeon.

@TheShadowyFeministShadowy you’re not a moderator
So No I won’t be told to go off thread
Or to get a safe space
Or be directed ➡️➡️ Elsewhere

I will challenge casual sexism levelled against women and the use of a Daily mail article as if it’s an indicative representation of a woman
I’m no fan of Piti Patel however my objection is ideological. I’ll defend her too if there’s a pile on about her appearance

It feels like some people want to go down a bit of a purity spiral here. Like in order to be entitled to discuss and critique Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish Govt, we would first have to demonstrate a specific set of beliefs, for example about women or men or sexual harassment, in order to be able to do that. Otherwise we aren’t entitled to a view on the rest of it - if our intentions and other opinions are not sufficiently pure. It’s a fashionable approach these days.

I think the 'calm' 'charismatic' bit actually hides a multitude of other things - Scotland has done little better than the rest of the UK regarding covid response. School openings are woeful, our local authority hasn't had a confirmed covid case this week (that's case, not death) yet df's teens have been in school for 3hours.

The Hate Crime bill is incredibly concerning, GRA stuff also. Just because Sturgeon and the SNP talk a good talk doesn't make them a whole lot better than other parties - in fact people appear to be taken in by the style and are not prepared to scratch the surface.

I was slightly annoyed with the traction about when things were said during the AS debacle, but something stinks. Salmond appears to be a sleaze of the highest order and the person I feel most sorry for is his wife.

NS is getting to the stage that Margaret Thatcher reached in her last year as PM - she will not listen to advice from anyone - she knows best and is treating her advisors like children. And before anyone claims I'm comparing SNP/NS to 80's Tories/Thatcher, not at all, just this particular behaviour.

It feels like some people want to go down a bit of a purity spiral here
What? Purity spiral is it like the time tunnel in Coatbridge?

I guess there’s parallels in the sense that once you get there it’s all a bit disappointing.