Salmond v Sturgeon Round 3 — Comment along with Sturgeon

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

Previous thread here.

Erm but whats your answer ?

Cos this is one of the questions into why Scottish government gave no authority to the women

Why should I get some sleep ?

Ok don't. I am.

The question remains.

But it is crucial as to why the SG decided that the women’s wishes were to be disregarded and the SG decided they would take authority over the women’s wishes against police advise

@littlbrowndog

The question remains.

But it is crucial as to why the SG decided that the women’s wishes were to be disregarded and the SG decided they would take authority over the women’s wishes against police advise

I found the response on this pretty poor.

@WaxOnFeckOff not sure that's what I'd call it to be honest.

As well as the question surrounding the passing over the women’s details to the police, I want to know why the police were not called into investigate the leaking of one of their names to the daily record.

So in my mind it was an empty apology NS gave yesterday to these poor women.

Agree, it was all about covering her own arse. Some of the emoting felt very contrived to me.

The emotive deflection yesterday seems to have worked to an extent, with several papers leading with the 'Apologise Alex' line. Not only does this miss the point if the enquiry entirely (to investigate the SG and NS) but it also takes as read that he was guilty and the courts got it wrong which feels a bit close to the wind.

I don't think he'll take it lying down though and I'm guessing the dial will swing back the other way once the content of these new documents is known. The evidence also does seem to suggest several breaches of ministerial code so the James Hamilton enquiry may still find against her.

@Selkiesarereal

As well as the question surrounding the passing over the women’s details to the police, I want to know why the police were not called into investigate the leaking of one of their names to the daily record.

So in my mind it was an empty apology NS gave yesterday to these poor women.

Agree totally. The SG's account and actions suggested they backed these women in to a corner. They didn't want a police investigation, with the accompanying possibility of a big trial. That was their right.

Instead they sent it to the police and someone leaked it. There seems to be a fairly solid consensus as to who.

How was that centering the women?

I like newspapers who all have the same approach of “Apologize Alex” as a spontaneous thought!

Not as if it was suggested to them at all. No no:

"Nicola Sturgeon’s government failed. It failed two women complainants. It failed the Parliament in its consistent refusal to share relevant information. It failed the public in allocating large sums of money, not to improving life chances but on a legal case its advisers warned about. It has failed to be accountable. It has failed to be transparent. This ought to worry all of us, including members of the SNP. "

Link to Holyrood article

This is a good overview of yesterday's session.

I think this summarises what many of us have been trying to say

Too much commentary has fallen into the binary trap set by the First Minister. To raise serious questions about the conduct of the Scottish Government and the First Minister does not mean taking Alex Salmond’s side.

Discussing the SG failings does not mean saying AS is a wholly innocent (in terms of poor behaviour rather than the legal sense) man, it means we're saying the SG made a catastrophic mess of this that is divorced from his guilt or innocence

Great article.

Does anyone know when the Hamilton enquiry is due to be completed and published?

What possible motive could I have for bringing AS down?

So I could be the President of the Republic of Scotland, have my face on the currency and live in a presidential palace

I think Hamilton is fairly imminent. I thought she seemed quite confident about it yesterday, but I couldn't tell if that was deflection or because she thinks her "senior member of staff" will be very believable and blow Aberdein's testimony out of the water.

Showmethesnowdrop

all views/criticism is welcome but your posts do more to help the cause for independence than anything coming from the SNP ever could. The superior air and contempt in your words are astonishing.

Thank you, I just wondered if it would be out before or after the election.

I don't think from what we've seen that there is any doubt the code was broken but does it need to evidence that it was deliberately done?

As we've seen, former FM and others have been forced to resign for less.

I think it was a risky strategy to cast aspersions on the witnesses who corroborated Aberdein's evidence (assumes evidence because we don't know exactly what he's said). I think she's maybe feeling confident because she's already given her evidence.

I think her failings are so serious & worrying that I'm clinging onto the fact this is likely the last thing that could seriously impact her. But my gut tells me that there's no appetite for it & despite the appalling outcome & waste of taxpayers money, she'll get to walk away relatively unscathed.

This situation has highlighted how we are 'too wee' to properly address institutional failings because the committee set up is embarrassingly partisan & the government can rip the piss out of those tasked with investigating their failures, can withhold evidence & obstruct them & just 🤷🏻‍♀️ in response to criticism for that.

I think I questioned how NS could talk her way out of the damning accusations from Salmond. What I didn't factor was the possibility that just not answering the questions asked would be seen as any kind of win. And yet, the oh-so-organic-spontaneous membership 'boost' shows that there's still a cohort of Indy supporters who will gladly support this level of incompetence to further the 'cause'.

I suspect there are a crop of independence supporters who are very emotionally invested in both the cause and NS as the 'face' of it, and are desperate for a reason to continue believing that she did the right thing, or if she made mistakes it was for the right reasons. Her deflection yesterday gave them that I think, and allowed them to shift the conversation back onto AS when the enquiry was never about his conduct. In this respect she was allowed to waffle on far too much yesterday and should have been brought back to the point, but then the convenor is her ally so it was inevitable she'd be given too much leeway. There are still a lot of unanswered questions and things that don't add up, far too much 'I don't recall' and evidence against her, but she spoke with emotion and 'tried her best' so her supporters have the excuse they need to dismiss all that.

I think she performed well.
I think Salmond also performed well.
I think the committee not so well. Questions should only be asked once and the chair should insist on an answer. This is not a stage for political grandstanding. Andy Wightman seemed the only one being forensic about his questions.

I am appalled at the calibre of politicians in Scotland and through out the UK. I am sick of playground politics and point scoring.

Is there anyone left whom we can trust? What example does it set for us all?
I am sad and angry

@TheShadowyFeminist - yes exactly. Constitutionally so much needs improvement, and in the hands of the UK Government.

I think it was a risky strategy to cast aspersions on the witnesses who corroborated Aberdein's evidence

she didn't exactly do that - not easy to comment on an apparent exchange that you weren't a party to is it?
Think it's weird that letters from two other people who weren't present at it are being presented as 'corroboration' - because Aberdein 'told them about it'.
If I see someone break a window and tell the police, claiming my two pals know they did it too. When they ask did the other two see the person breaking the window and i say, no but i remember i told them about it at the time...

Aberdein's not exactly turned out to be the 'golden goose' he was being portrayed as on here. The one that would 'prove it all'. HIs statement doesn't really chime with being someone who believes Nicola Sturgeon set up his boss for rape. He speaks quite warmly about her.

Agree youcannotbeserious

** I am appalled at the calibre of politicians in Scotland and through out the UK. I am sick of playground politics and point scoring.

Is there anyone left whom we can trust? What example does it set for us all?
I am sad and angry**

This @Voluptuagoodshag is exactly how I’m feeling.

(the public statement he put out i mean)