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Salmond v Sturgeon Round 3 — Comment along with Sturgeon

999 replies

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 03/03/2021 13:16

Previous thread here.

OP posts:
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11
daisyfraser · 03/03/2021 18:17

The same thought crossed my mind when she said she didn't know the identities of all the complainers.
Wings says that's a huge lie. There is NO WAY she doesn't know.
Yet the lies fall so easily from her lips.

Beepbeeprichie · 03/03/2021 18:17

For someone that was relishing the opportunity to put forward her side she didn’t say much other than “I can’t recall” and “to the best of my knowledge”.

StarryEyeSurprise · 03/03/2021 18:20

@daisyfraser

Ruth great on SNPTV saying strange how Sturgeon seemed to lose her powers of recollection throughout. Spot on - seems a bit of a handicap for a political leader
SNPTV?
Aurea · 03/03/2021 18:22

So what happens now?

whatisthislifesofullofcare · 03/03/2021 18:24

Aurea....everyone still votes for her. Confused

OldRailer · 03/03/2021 18:25

Yep!Shock

WaxOnFeckOff · 03/03/2021 18:26

@daisyfraser

The same thought crossed my mind when she said she didn't know the identities of all the complainers. Wings says that's a huge lie. There is NO WAY she doesn't know. Yet the lies fall so easily from her lips.
That's pretty significant imo. There is no way that is the truth, whether it can be proven is another matter.

Today was just a disappointing confusing ramble. None of the key points were really answered.

I agree with PP that it's the documents that were released that are the more significant items here.

The ability to divert, muddle and generally ramble does not make a good leader.

StarryEyeSurprise · 03/03/2021 18:30

In summary - a day of confusion.

Murdo Fraser proving his knowledge of big words by raising the matter of a leaked name by a civil servant, quoting two letters as contemporaneous corroboration forgetting that the recipient of the name hadn't given evidence to the committee that could be corroborated.

Jackie Baillie going over the same questions that had been asked by others looking for differences in the words used in Nicola Sturgeon's answers, forgetting that she had started by misquoting what the first minister had said in parliament.

Margaret Mitchell out of her depth all day finally struggling for ten minutes to read a script, probably prepared by party head office today, that made so little sense it appeared that she'd got the pages in the wrong order.

A committee that appears to have lost sight of the woods as it blunders among the trees.

OldRailer · 03/03/2021 18:30

BBC Scotland news report a day of drama.

I must have missed that.

LexMitior · 03/03/2021 18:32

I think there are two outcomes

  1. it was a good bad performance- good for NS but bad accountability

  2. Because of the good bad performance, it’s not over. I think there will be lots of bits of information to come. Not to the Committee, but within the press.

Nipoleonthenoncommital · 03/03/2021 18:33

We'll be stuck with her again won't we. Humza demonstrated that the rest of them couldn't run a bloody bath or be trusted with a Twitter account. I despair.

sessell · 03/03/2021 18:34

@StarryEyeSurprise you may very well believe that she didn't take part in the complaints process. I'm not convinced. For a start, there are all the meetings in Nov and Dec where the notes have vanished. But even if we put the destroyed evidence aside, there is solid evidence that she misled parliament re. the Aberdein meeting and acted unlawfully in going ahead with the JR case against advice.

TheShadowyFeminist · 03/03/2021 18:34

"the recipient of the name hadn't given evidence to the committee that could be corroborated."

That's not correct. He supplied the committee with his evidence back in October last year but it's been suppressed. Which is very convenient for the FM to dispute because the committee don't get to check with Aberdein. She's cast aspersions on not only his evidence but others linked to Salmond in order to defend her senior staff member. Without apparently ever properly investigating this or making a formal referral for investigation.

Dinnafashyersel · 03/03/2021 18:36

I don't think we learned anything today so in that respect I don't think NS rebutted any of the accusations from AS on Friday or the subsequent corroboratory disclosures.

Have to say if they'd been my DC I would have been at the stage of saying "I no longer care about why you all did what you did but could you just go away and have a think and resolve to do better next time."

StatisticallyChallenged · 03/03/2021 18:37

@daisyfraser

The same thought crossed my mind when she said she didn't know the identities of all the complainers. Wings says that's a huge lie. There is NO WAY she doesn't know. Yet the lies fall so easily from her lips.
This seemed remarkable to me, and very unlikely. Especially considering (IIRC) that the anonymity order wasn't actually made until mid court case after the court reporter named one of the accusers. They wouldn't normally be publically named but I find it hard to believe she didn't know.
daisyfraser · 03/03/2021 18:37

'Know-nothing Sturgeon' on twitter Grin

pourqouimoi · 03/03/2021 18:38

Those who don't like sturgeon...(seems like most people on this board!) - who would you like to see running the country? Who do you think will be next FM if she has to resign?

TheShadowyFeminist · 03/03/2021 18:39

"I think there are two outcomes

  1. it was a good bad performance- good for NS but bad accountability

  2. Because of the good bad performance, it’s not over. I think there will be lots of bits of information to come. Not to the Committee, but within the press."

Again, I agree. I might be wrong but I think her efforts to cast doubt on the veracity of the 2 witnesses who supported Salmond's claim re the complainant name leak, as well as Aberdein's version (conveniently unavailable to the committee to check/verify) could well invoke a reaction that will drag this on further. It's already invoked Salmond's team making a formal complaint about this. And I think there could be more on that in the days to come.

I'll therefore be keeping 👀 eyes peeled for the fall out on this.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 03/03/2021 18:40

After listening to most of that and after trying to cut through the word soup, deflection, and emotive language, I don't think she's done enough to save herself. I'm not convinced she was part of a criminal conspiracy, but I also don't think her reasons for 'forgetting' the meeting in March or for failing to have this properly recorded are credible. I can believe that AS was a bit sleazy, even it wasn't to a criminal extent. I actually feel a little sorry for her and can believe that she set out with good intentions following Metoo and knowing what Salmond could be like. Perhaps she felt guilty for not challenging this behaviour earlier. But this has been a major cock up that has become very shady in parts and has set women's rights back years. She was at the head of this, and she should take responsibility.

Looking at the actual evidence dispassionately, it seems beyond reasonable doubt that she knew of the allegations before the April meeting (and has therefore misled parliament on this point), and there could have been no doubt in anyone's mind that this was government business and thus should have been recorded. Even if, as she said, she only discovered it was SG business at the meeting, she should have then put it on record, but didn't. There are also multiple witnesses to corroborate that her office leaked the name of a complainant, but she has not referred this for investigation. She said clearly in parliament that this didn't happen, which is obviously untrue unless several witnesses have perjured themselves. The legal advice also seems to clearly show that she pursued a doomed case for a couple of months after her lawyers told her it was doomed, wasting hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money. That's without getting into the evidence suppression and obstruction. Any one of these things should be a resigning matter, but given all if them, surely her position is untenable.

LexMitior · 03/03/2021 18:40

Well what could you do better - probably institute a lot of constitutional reform! But she is not the person to do that after today.

I mean she is very good politically but as someone who can’t understand the issues in this case of AS and why her actions were an issue and the conduct of the policy, I’d be seriously disclined to give her more responsibility that involved the balancing of power. On the face of her evidence, she can’t manage that.

kurtrussellsbeard · 03/03/2021 18:41

@StarryEyeSurprise

In summary - a day of confusion.

Murdo Fraser proving his knowledge of big words by raising the matter of a leaked name by a civil servant, quoting two letters as contemporaneous corroboration forgetting that the recipient of the name hadn't given evidence to the committee that could be corroborated.

Jackie Baillie going over the same questions that had been asked by others looking for differences in the words used in Nicola Sturgeon's answers, forgetting that she had started by misquoting what the first minister had said in parliament.

Margaret Mitchell out of her depth all day finally struggling for ten minutes to read a script, probably prepared by party head office today, that made so little sense it appeared that she'd got the pages in the wrong order.

A committee that appears to have lost sight of the woods as it blunders among the trees.

Good summation! Grin
StarryEyeSurprise · 03/03/2021 18:44

[quote sessell]@StarryEyeSurprise you may very well believe that she didn't take part in the complaints process. I'm not convinced. For a start, there are all the meetings in Nov and Dec where the notes have vanished. But even if we put the destroyed evidence aside, there is solid evidence that she misled parliament re. the Aberdein meeting and acted unlawfully in going ahead with the JR case against advice.[/quote]
Did you even watch the proceedings today? I'm quite sure it was Leslie Evans at those meetings/ who lost the notes.

Yes, she forgot the 29th meeting as there was one a couple of days earlier. Hardly misleading Parliament.

She did not act unlawfully. Those taking the case forward did not act unlawfully. This was covered today.

TheShadowyFeminist · 03/03/2021 18:47

"I’d be seriously disclined to give her more responsibility that involved the balancing of power. On the face of her evidence, she can’t manage that."

Yup, I think in trying to save her skin & avoid giving responses that would or could incriminate her, I think she's made herself appear less capable & lest trustworthy. Certainly not the great leader she thinks she is.

Problem is, there's a dearth of alternatives, the quality of potential replacements are virtually none existent. Cherry would be the obvious choice to me, but rather than capitalise on her skills, sturgeon has made sure she's pushed out almost to the point of expulsion (which I'm sure will be attempted v soon with their newly invoked 'transphobia' policy).

StarryEyeSurprise · 03/03/2021 18:48

Sorry, meeting with AS was a couple of days later.

LexMitior · 03/03/2021 18:48

This are not plus points are they? She looks incompetent

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