Moving to Scotland

[MinniesAndMickeysNeedCounting]

I'm hoping for some guidance.
We've recently been told my dh job is being moved to Scotland, we're currently in England.
I know that your house buying system is different to ours and would love any practical advice on combining the two systems, can you combine them or do you have to seperate sale and purchase.
I've read a few things but thought it might be easier to ask here because I'm unsure of it.
You have a survey done prior to putting a house on the market? Sellers pack, presumably that means sellers are more serious than in England because the initial financial outlay.
Houses are listed and you're expected to offer over that price? How much over? Seen something about sealed bids too.
Can you view the survey/report before deciding to view a house or do you only get to see it after viewing.
Are missives the equivalent of searches.
It become legally binding in Scotland earlier in the process, here its very late, at exchange, when does it become legally binding please.
I think this is what's concerning me with the two different processes coming together.

Sorry if I've rambled and it's a bit garbled, things came to whilst typing

@sweetkitty i think i got it wrong actually as i forgot the OP is talking about moving next year not this year, sorry. The good thing is that you can do Highers or Advanced Highers or a mixture in Sixth Year so it's fairly flexible.

There's some lovely areas in that neck of the woods (but also some pretty run down ones), your budget should go quite far though.
I would definitely consider selling in England and renting. Because of the offers over system you could be bidding on homes for months before you actually win one. Basically the way the system works is that properties are usually advertised at an offers over price. How much you bid over that really depends on the local market and how much you're willing to pay. In some areas it will be the valuation price, others 5-10% over, in edinburgh it's been as high as 20% recently. The key thing to note is that you will only be able to get a mortgage up to the valuation price so anything you bid over you need cash for.
You need a solicitor (it's all solicitors not estate agents), if you are interested in bidding on a property then you put in a "note of interest" through your solicitor. You will then get notified when the seller sets a closing date for sealed bids. This is typically a Friday late morning but not always. There is no obligation to put a bid in but if you do and you are the winning bid then you are legally obliged to buy unless anything comes up in the surveys or searches. Usually the highest bidder will get the house but if there are ones that are close the seller may go with a slightly lower bid from someone who's in a better position e.g. no chain, cash buyer etc. Hence why it's useful to be in rented accommodation with a short notice period. If you're in a good position to move then it's sometimes worth putting in an offer before a property goes to a closing date, particularly if you know the seller is eager to move quickly.
The system is better than England in that there's less risk of people pulling out of sales or offers being accepted and then other people offering higher BUT it does mean you can miss out on houses that you really want, sometimes by only a few £.
If you're after a quicker purchase then look for properties that are on at fixed price.

@Scottishskifun Thanks for the advice-unfortunately it's now causing to closing date next Friday! I'll speak to the Scottish solicitor and see what he suggests but despite my best effort's we're not gonna be exchanged by then…

If you're looking for that type of property then you're much more likely to get it the rural side of Faslane (like Rahane). The only thing to bear in mind is that the villages round the Gareloch, and Rahane more like a hamlet, have limited facilities and you would need to travel for lots of stuff.

I actually think secondary school is less of an issue and what you'd need to consider is whether your daughter would be planning on staying at home for college/uni cause that transport could be more difficult (for school there is a bus provided).

Bellway are just about to start on site with new houses right at the edge of Helensburgh, and as someone said upthread Taylor Wimpey are proposing a big new development at the Golf Club. There tends to be a fairly steady supply of new build housing in Dumbarton as well.

You would probably be able to rent fairly easily if that's the route you went down, although the type of house you're looking for does tend to be more in demand.

Not sure if anyone had already said this, but if you like the look of a house online, the first step is to contact the estate agent and ask them to send you the home report. It's a normal part of the process, and there's no expectation that you'll then take things further. Sometimes these will be available on the house's web page, but mostly you'll have to ask for it. They'll email it over and it will give you an idea of the house's condition, with scores for each aspect. Towards the end of the report, there are two values, one for rebuilding, and another, the one you need, which is the surveyor's valuation of the house's worth. That gives you a better idea of what the house is likely to go for The 'offers over' price you see on the web page can often (but not always) be quite a bit lower, and as an estate agent said to me yesterday, is there to stimulate interest.

As has been said, in desirable area, or with houses where you can add value, properties are going well over house report value (not the OIEO price), some at 20% over.

It is the worst possible stage to move between English and Scottish education systems.

Can DD stay with relatives down south until she has finished her A levels?

There are some private schools in Scotland that do A levels but they are mostly around Edinburgh. Is boarding a possibility?

Depending on what month her birthday is moving ‘down’ a year is often what happens to new English pupils.

The Scottish intake runs from 1st March-28th February rather than 1st September- 31st August. So if she is born September-February things will be easier as she can ‘repeat’ a year.

The Scottish system works like this:
Pupils start primary 1 (no reception) when they are between 4 1/2 and 4 1/2 and do 7 years in primary school.

Then there are 6 years of secondary school, with some pupils leaving after 4th or 5th year although this is less common now.

They do 6-8 National 5s in 4th year. The number available varies between schools so check this. Less able pupils do Nat 4’s then Nat 5’s later.

For pupils heading to uni they do 5 highers in 5th year. Most schools make English compulsory.

In 6th year it’s a mixed bag of high flyers doing up to 3 advanced highers with others doing a mix of Nat 5’s, Highers and 1 or 2 AH’s.

Some pupils can go straight to uni after 5th year if they get high grades in their highers.

Uni entrance can be either unconditional based on highers or conditional based on extra grades in 6th year.

Free uni education is only available if you are resident for 3 years so she wouldn’t get this.

There are no academies, grammars or 6th forms colleges. All state schools are run by the local council.

Where you live you will have a catchment denominational and non-denominational school. In Helensburgh the non dom is Hermitage Academy, the catholic pupils get bussed to Dumbarton for high school. (Confusingly this is in a different council area)

The only nearby private school is Lomond School.

It’s a beautiful area with some lovely good value properties.

Helensburgh has a train line into Glasgow so easy for a teen to access the city.

I don’t think that there is actually a set time frame to qualify for free tuition at a Scottish university you have to be ‘habitually’ resident in Scotland. I think the 3 year rule applies if you are moving from outside the U.K. to Scotland though I’m not sure on that. I think if you were at school in Scotland for 5/6 year then they might be sufficient to qualify as habitually resident. There are downsides though to free tuition as there is a cap on numbers of Scottish students it may be better to have a non Scots fee status and be in the non capped pool if a Scottish university is the preferred option.

You're correct @celtiethree

Eligibility for Student Finance
You have lived in the UK for at least three years prior to the start of your course.
You are 'ordinarily' resident in Scotland on a specified date (typically 1st August for courses starting in the autumn term).

Because of the offers over system you could be bidding on homes for months before you actually win one

I offered on 5 houses before I got the one I'm in now. Took me about 8 months.

Sarahandduck18 Thank you, that is alot of information 🤯, it sounds so complicated but I guess it's just a matter of what you're used to.

Dd birthday is in January, she'll turn 17 in January 2022 and then we should move up in the spring. She would have started college/6th form here in September 2021, If I've understood correctly, she can then start secondary 5th in (may) effectively putting her back 7-8 months to where she would have been in the english system and she won't be eligible for a free uni place because we wont have been resident for long enough.
Would you think she should still start a-levels here to show a commitment to learning or would it serve no purpose, my thinking was that perhaps it would be more likely that she would be offered a place or does she have to be offered a secondary 5th place if she wants one.

celtiethree and OllyBJolly just seen you said 3 year rule might not apply to uk residents. So if she studies secondary 5th and possibly 6th she might qualify. In regards to the limited places, is acceptance based on best grades get a place?

OllyBJolly 8 months 😲😩

Sturmundcalm tbh I don't know what we're looking for, ideally would like to be in a town for ease but you get more house for your money further out which I know is obvious, that's why we've been drawn to them.

Thank you Throughhistory very helpful.

Everyones been really helpful and I appreciate you all taking the time to answer my many question.

Is the process of buying new different, presumably if you're buying off plan you dont submit offers just pay what the developer asks?

minnies as a pp this is probably the worst time for your eldest dc to move. If it was this spring then it would slot in quite nicely but spring 2022 will be tougher.

School cut off is end of Feb so your DC theoretically if in the Scottish system could be sitting highers this year 2021 and would have sat Nat 5s last year 2020. It would even be possible for your DC to have chosen to leave school at 16 and go to university if she had the grades (not common but not unheard of).

However it’s quite common to defer Jan/Feb birthdays. So there will be pupils the same age as your DC who will start 5th year (moving from 4th to 5th year after the completion on the exam diet at the end of May this year). With a view to sitting their first set of highers in 2022, and additional highers/advanced highers 2023.

If your DC does not move until spring 2022 they will have missed the opportunity to sit highers in what would have been their 5th year. They can still take exams in 2023 but they would be putting all their eggs in one basket iyswim and have to achieve their uni qualifications in one final sitting - and 5 highers are quite hard work.

Starting A level courses especially if science would be beneficial in terms of keeping studying skills alive and there would be some cross over in content.

Schools are required to offer a place if you are in catchment it’s completely different from the English 6th form set up.

Once you get a better idea of where you will be moving to the local council/schools will advise better than me 😀.

University places are offered based on grades but also contextual offers.

Do you have any idea what a levels your DC would/will chose?

Ok so, systems not really comparable but I gonna try anyway,
Nat 5 = our year 10 (no exams in this year here)
Highers = our year 11 (GCSE's)
Advanced highers = ? A-levels

I thought
Nat 5 = GCSE'S
Highers = a-levels/ as level
Advanced highers = higher than a level for students to earn extra credit/ qualifications, not a category we have.

Sorry if I'm being thick. I just thought she would join and do what ever your version of a-levels are, with the slight set back of pehaps having to restart an academic year

Shes looking to study English, history, religious studies and forensics and criminology

@Wbeezer ah I thought that as my DD1 will be in this position come Summer this year, she’ll be 17 going into 6th year hopefully have some Highers but will be wanting to get more to get into uni.

To move from England to Scotland then would be one of the worst years, either go the year before or the year after if you possibly can OP, so let her start Highers this coming August (and we are all so hoping that come August things go back to normal and we get a normal Academic year) or let her stay in England for 2 years for A levels.

No you are right roughly:

Nat 5 = gcse
Higher = as/a
Advanced higher = a +

It’s just she would have sat exams at a different age if she had started in the Scottish system, if she had started school here at the earliest starting age which in your dc case would have been 4yrs 8 mths.

Under the Scottish system she could have been deferred and started school at 5 yrs 8 months. This would synch her Nat 5 year up with her GCSE year(in terms of age) which is essentially what has happened. Both would be sat at age 16.

Now if your DC moves in Spring 22 she would have missed higher teaching from June 21 to Spring 22 and couldn’t sit exams unless you figure out away for her to learn remotely. She can go to school in Scotland in Spring 22 and start highers with a view to sitting in 2023 but she would have only one opportunity because essentially she will be in 6th year having missed 5th year. If your DC stays at school for 2 years - i.e. restarting 5th year she will be the oldest in her class probably by a year to the next oldest and possibly as much as two years to those who hadn’t deferred starting school and had started at 4 years 6 months.

I think I need a spreadsheet.

I don’t believe forensics and criminology would be possible. The others yes but with a different curriculum.

My DS did Advanced Higher English and Advanced Higher History recently, very good prep for uni as they have to research and write a mini dissertation /extended essay on they own for half the marks, helped his essay writing skills a lot

I think schools would be flexible about what year they let her join as she's coming from a different system, it might be a little socially awkward being the oldest but quite a lot of Higher classes have a mixture of fifth and sixth years in them and there's always extra curricular activities too so she would be mixing with age peers and stage peers.
I am a bit jealous of sixth form colleges as we don't have an equivalent here and it's extremely difficult to do stand alone school qualifications at FE colleges. One of mine dropped out of High School for MH reasons and there was no local provision for him to do more Nat5s and Highers at college anywhere remotely local (i think there is limited availability in Edinburgh and Glasgow).

I think If you were 17 at the start of 5th year and 18 at the start of 6th year you would be OK as far as being allowed two years of high school, DS's school recently had a pupil who turned 20! But they were a special case and were not allowed to mingle with pupils at lunch or wear uniform etc.

So it looks like the buying a house is the easy bit - sell yours, rent and find a place to buy in Scotland.

Educating your eldest child is the problem. Can you move to Scotland earlier or let her finish her education in England?

The house in rahane is right on school bus route to Hermitage academy in Helensburgh it will go past about 8.10 am , because of bases at Coulport and faslane there is a regular bus roughly hourly. However the garden is very very steep, nothing is within walking distance as no footpaths so everywhere you go will need to drive but you will get a lot of house for your money.
Many parts of Balloch are nice but the catchment school Vale of Leven academy includes some very deprived areas. About 90% of residents in West Dunbartonshire were born there,in HELENSBURGH it's about 50%

The Rahane house is lovely but as others have said it is very remote and you really need to drive everywhere. I grew up round there and hated it. As a teenager it was a real pain to have to get public transport everywhere and not be able to see friends after school as you had to get the bus home.

That's very interesting about the bus routes to school from Rahane.

The catchment school for Bolloch again good information, this is the type of insider knowledge that's hard to find on the internet when you're not familiar with the lay of the land. Read a funny/scary thread about Dumbarton recently from locals.

Eldest daughters education is the sticking point atm, its put me off if I'm honest, I feel like if we go ahead I could end up messing up her future, DH has a meeting soon with work and top of the agenda is if we can delay the whole thing to allow her to finish a-levels. Poor dh works away atm and he's desperate to able to live with us full time. One of the things we've been grateful for during the past year is dh secure job, and we cant afford for him to lose it if the job can't present any alternatives for us.