Scottish Family Party

[Greektome]

I've only just noticed the existence of this new political party. Does anyone have a view? I've had a quick look at what they're saying about education, and it seems sensible?

That sounds grim Arkadia . Only my eldest DD was not a pupil of CfE and we did not experience that . They all have N5 Maths or above . And doing degrees that require significant critical thinking skills. 3 are dyslexic and received support to achieve equity with their peers. Transcription or time added on. The picture Greek refers to is about equity verses equality.

However regrettable your experience is it does not cause me to look at Scottish Family Party in a different light . I could not be part of an educational system that had such archaic values and was so demeaning to women, homophobic and lacking in respect for the rights of children.

But I respect your views and if the party offers something to you then I hope that is helpful to you.

@Lidlfix, one problem, the way I see it, is that NO mainstream PARTY takes education seriously. However, an even bigger problem is that the population as a whole doesn't care about education. The proof is in what the SNP is (NOT) doing... look at when they felt that the public was against them, i.e. the retreat on blended learning first and on moderated exam results after: they did something (rightly or wrongly it matters not in the context of this conversation) immediately. If the public DEMANDED a better school, something would happen, but in the end, nobody REALLY cares, past some generic complaints that go nowhere.
Education doesn't shift votes.
I can tell you that as a parent one of my biggest personal failing is that I cannot afford to send my kids to private school. It is not a matter of choice or priorities. We just would not have enough money for two at the same time. We could stretch perhaps one, but 2... no way.
I am really not happy about it, but we are prisoner of the system and all we can do is offer some extra reading on William Wallace to balance things out.
To rub it in, one of our neighbours has just moved their child from a local primary to that school and they said that the difference was like night and day (well, they were bound to given what it costs :D)

'The problem of population decline could be solved by restricting abortion [in Scotland]'

WTF did I just read?

Also OP the picture you're talking about above is very well-known and doesn't mean what you think it means. It simply means some people need support to get on the pitch - what they do when they get there is up to them/their ability.

Many people are politically cast adrift at present. The Scottish Family Party is a not, thankfully, for very many the solution to that.

I am not sure what you want me to say. I deplore their philosophies.

I sympathise that you are unhappy with the educational system and that your DC are not having the experience they deserve. That was not my situation nor that of my DDs.

It does not represent the experience the pupils where I teach have either.

I refuse to say that there is any other than unhealthy and sinister about what I have read on Scottish Family Party's site. Punishment, inequality, ignorance of the rights of the child...

Even if their policies on education were wonderful...everything else is horrific. Letting the "fathers" get a say in abortion and focusing on upping the birth rate but only for the "right" people makes me exceedingly uncomfortable. Any party whose manifesto can be summed up by "Kinder, küche, kirche" has no place in modern politics as far as I'm concerned.

I worry about education and we're certainly considering private for secondary (lovely small friendly village primary atm) but this lot are most definitely not the answer.

Oh thank goodness this thread is united in almost all speaking against the Scottish Family Party. As a single parent, I find their views alienating and troubling. Thank you

From what's being posted, I guess i shouldn't be troubling my pretty head with these things and that the menz will get it all sorted. Must ask DH to post my vote for me as I clearly couldn't cope with that at all. he knows what is best I'm sure.

They remind me of the 'church' that Louis Theroux interviewed in America. Innocent name but actual beliefs just beyond the comprehension of normal people.

Are you talking about the same picture, Lonny? The children just want to see over a wall to WATCH a football game. My point is that in education all children, in my view, should be stretched. That would lead to different end points, not the same end point. A different view is that all children should learn the basics, job done.

The football game is a metaphor. It tells us that some people in society need a little extra help to get to the same starting point. At no point in the picture does it suggest that everyone bends down so nobody can see.

You’re taking the picture too literally, it’s intended to illustrate that different people have different barriers in life and therefore need different supports to achieve the same thing. It’s been doing the rounds for years in different contexts. It doesn’t mean that everyone only achieves the basics - it means that schools put in appropriate supports for kids who wouldn’t even get the basics without them.

if you think Your kids are only being taught the basics you need to talk to the school. There are also different ways to stretch your kids, that don’t all happen in school so if you think they need something they aren’t getting, you could look at ways to fill the gap.

@Jellycatspyjamas, but that is the whole point of the SNP obsession goal of closing the attainment gap, isn't it?

Is this a thread about seeking views about frankly terrifying Scottish Family Party or debating the meaning of (and it's actually a series of pictures) a picture which has been used in education for at least a decade to highlight the difference between equality and equity?

But it seems important to some so - The point the pictures make is that not everyone needs the same support, or any at all, to be at the same starting point. That notion does not exclude that some young people's support need is to be stretched and challenged appropriately.

Anyway back to wanting to hear defences of Scottish Family Party . The sensible stuff you found?

I remember the last country that that banned abortion (and contraception ) to increase the population and we know how THAT ended . Romania .

Sorry, I know the graphic isn't the point of the thread, but I think this is the best one.

Remove the barrier. Then noone suffers (including the kid who had no issue in the first place!)

Also sounds like they would take G P confidentiality from women .

Thanks for that picture, Dumpling.
It illustrates my point quite well.
My argument is that everyone should be supported to do as well as they can at school. For a child who struggles with maths, that might mean putting them in a maths class where different teaching methods are used. For a child who has an aptitude for maths, that might mean teaching them beyond the Nat5 or Higher curriculum, entering them and training them towards a national maths competition, etc.
My point being that they should NOT all have the same goal (eg the goal of seeing over a wall to watch a football game). They should have different goals, so that they are all encouraged and stretched to the limits of their ability.
The Scottish Government view seems to be that the brighter children shouldn't be stretched. All that matters is that people pass the basic exams.
That won't produce people who are excited by education and who excel academically.

I'd be interested to hear from a teacher as to why some schools spend 1 year on Nat5s whereas others spend 2 years on the same number of Nat5s? Surely a lot of the children must be bored out of their minds?

Surely that depends on the school, not the political party?

In school i was flagged as musically talented, so while my classmates were sitting their standard grade, i sat my advanced higher.

This was in scotland, under our current political party. 🤷🏾

@ScottishStottie, I think that depends very much on the political party rather than the school as schools will be rewarded or penalised according to their adherence to the current catechism. I have no experience of secondary school as yet, but if my excellent rated primary is anything to go by it seems to me that the goal is to dig a trench under the fence so that not even the tallest person can watch the game (so equality is achieved and attainment gap is closed).

@Greektome

This is what caught my eye:

"While an emphasis on helping those with some educational disadvantages is justified, “closing the attainment gap” between rich and poor areas is now emphasised to the exclusion of aiming to raise attainment for all. The educational system should aim for the highest possible standards for all pupils, not an artificial equality target. Excellent students, in excellent schools in prosperous areas, are to be celebrated, encouraged and replicated, not resented for causing an “attainment gap”.

Lessons in critical thinking and logic, unrelated to contemporary political and social issues, should be provided for all high school pupils. This teaching of how to think would contrast with the current emphasis on telling pupils what to think."

Closing the attainment gap comes from a policy promoting excellence & equity - higher attainment for ALL pupils with support for those who needed. Hardly an awful aspiration?

I wonder if its just a case of realistically spreading the resources. Maybe they know at the moment (for whatever reason) they don't have the ability to ensure everyone thrives to their full potential (fuck GIRFEC eh?), so given the choice between focusing on the super achievers at the detriment of those needing more support, they opt to ensure that everyone has at least a basic standard of learning and education.

@Musicalmistress, the problem is when "closing the attainment gap" morphs into a race to the bottom.
The "attainment gap" the way it is framed is a red herring as there is nothing to be gained by closing it. The goal should be to make sure that pupils achieve as much as they possibly can, and if that leads to an "attainment gap", that's not really a problem. The important thing is making sure that kids have equal access to the top, NOT to the bottom.

@DumplingsAndStew, re:GIFREC I can tell you my personal and biassed experience.
I know two girls in the same class, one at the top, the other at the bottom of the spectrum (no disabilities, but, at most, different family life assuming that is an excuse). Both have been failed in different ways, but much more so the one at the bottom

Still nothing sensible from Scottish Famiily Party?