Is it more crazy to start Nat 5's now, or start them late next year?

[52andblue]

I have been living in England (but kids went to Primary in Scotland)
Ds is taking GCSE's - poor school, not doing well, bullied. ASD.
Not on course to pass any GCSE's at present (last assessed a year ago and the grades were not predicted pass grades at that point)
School says; 'it doesn't matter if he passes his exams'. He won't do well due to the ASD / Dyslexia, but he himself wants to pass some.

I need (for a variety of reasons) to return to Scotland next summer.

I was going to wait till then and not disrupt his GCSE year - but
He is at an awful School (in special measures), badly bullied, miserable, just had a MH issue. So, I am considering changing now.
(I have spoken to his MH team who say that his current situation is contributing to his issues and a change might be wise)
He'd be 11 weeks behind in his Nat 5 courses which seems madness.

But.. if we wait until next summer the GCSE's (which will run late) will not be held until July and the Nat 5's will start in May. So, he'd still be later (not as late, but still late). So he might fail GCSE's and end up starting late and feeling out of sync then too.

Purely on an exam / timings front (as only I can judge re the other issues and don'' want to go into details) which would be 'least worst'?

when is his birthday OP?

Quite a lot of schools do Nat 5s over two years and most start before schools break up for summer although obviously this is not a great year.

Is there any chance that he could move back a year in Scotland? My niece moved back at a similar time but later in the year, she ended up just going straight into highers and missing Nat 5s completely.

Maybe some teachers might come along that can advise better OP.

@WaxOnFeckOff

No he can't move back a year as he'll be 16 on 25th Sept ?

Spoke to the School who were helpful but it still seems he'd be behind either this year or next (and maybe all the places in those subjects taken by then too?)

How does it work if a kid has done Nat 5, starts a Higher course before Nat 5 results out and then didn't pass? I don't get it, sorry?

Its called crashing a higher. You do the higher without having sat the Nat5

But ds would have to wait for GCSE grades to apply for places for courses beginning summer 2021? so he'd be late / behind / places gone?

If he is 16 this September, I think he'll be looking at going into 5th year and doing Highers OP? Some schools can accommodate doing Highers over two years but it's risky as if he fails, he'll have nothing if he doesn't have any GCSEs either. He would have been in 4th year and sat his Nat 5s in May (if they had existed).

I feel really bad for him. it's a bit of a mess :(

Do you have any idea where you'd be moving to or which school he'd be looking at? It might be worth speaking to the likely schools and getting their view.

yeah I think you're right that he would be the age for S5. Dd is in S6 and will be 17 in November

I do get confused but I thought you could do a mixture of nat5 and highers in the same year, so if he was a year later he’d still be able to choose. Someone will know more about 5th and 6th year options.

Courses start in May here. Have you considered taking him out of school and home schooling or online schooling if he’s not enjoying it.

Or just quitting his current school and moving at Easter. The work for GCSEs wouldn’t be wasted as it would help towards his Nat5s but it would save the stress of exams that he is unlikely to pass well.

If you’d like to look at further education (college, uni) then check the eligibility as I think you have to be living in Scotland for 3 years before you can get free education, at least for university.

If they were happy for him to move back then I guess he could arrive any time soon and just give the Nat 5s a go knowing he'd have two years to pick up what he needs, schools here are much more flexible and if his Highest achievable level would be Nat 5 then he can continue at that level until he leaves, or he can do a mix of Nat 5s and Highers etc.

It's really far less restrictive than GCSEs at 16 and A levels at 18 (possibly in a 6th form college).

I'm sure that schools would be best placed to advise though. What is the plan post school?

@WaxOnFeckOff

yes it is a mess and I feel really awful about it

they have offered him a place in S4 and a shot at Nat 5's this year.

Post school - I don't know.
He is not likely to go to University.
His Autism & Dyslexia makes it hard for him.
I'd like him to have a shot at college though

Don't feel awful OP, none of this is your fault.

That sounds like the best idea to me, there will be a cross over in curriculum between GCSE and Nat 5 and even if he doesn't pass any, it will give an idea of what he should do next and then he has 2 years to get what he needs, be that resit Nat5s or move onto Highers over 1 year or 2.

In your position, I think I'd move now - clean slate, fresh start and a try at the exams with no real pressure.

Some of the colleges offer foundation courses in some subjects in conjunction with school over 5th and 6th year. So he could in theory be working to get his best level at maths and english at school and pick up a couple of courses at college which are equivalent to a Higher.

Definitely not doom and gloom and maybe the best thing for him?

Ah, thanks @WaxOnFeckOff that is kind of you.

I'm sitting here in my kitchen crying as I know I should have been more decisive back in April. But there was lockdown, school hols and some med appointments to get through and now we are 11 weeks in and it seems I've lost my chance. He'd prob rather wait till next year as he is scared of change. But he's in SUCH an awful situation atm that we're just prolonging the agony tbh & might need to move now.

But I just don't see how that works re timings and places if we wait?

It's been a terrible year to make anything work so again, that's not your fault. Based on what you've said, I think I would move now. If he was generally academic and not having issues, i'd probably say wait, do the GCSEs and arrive up to start 5th year here and do Highers. Whilst the curriculum generally starts before summer break up while he'll still be doing GCSEs, a lot of pupils change their subjects when they go back in August so are effectively in the same boat as someone moving here would be.

That could be other option?, Stay do GCSEs and then if he doesn't do well, do nat 5s in 5th year? or a mix of nat5s and highers if he does better than he thinks? Or a mix of school and college?

hi again (thanks for your patience)
I am lucky to have the choice I see that.
He gets very stressed at not starting at same time as others so I worry about next summer. But I also worry about moving him at a vulnerable time too (and he has good MH support here atm which we'd need to start from scratch there)

When mine were in school (very academic one) they said that 30% changed their subjects at the start in August so he would not be alone starting then. I don't know how much progression comes from Nat 5 but a lot of pupils crash highers having not done the Nat 5.

From my sample of 2, DS1 didn't change anything either year. DS2 changed his when starting S5 and S6.

So I think what you are saying now is that either you stay in England until after the delayed GCSEs and arrive here to start S5 in August, you stay there for now but move up to start S5 in May without sitting his GCSEs or you come now and start N5 and give those a go?

I take it his ASD gives him some rigidity of thinking? That's obviously a complication that makes it harder to make a choice.

I do feel for you both, there probably isn't a best answer tbh.

I think either I come now and he gives Nat 5's a go.
OR we come next August after GCSE's to start S5 (whichever exams most suitable then, depending on if he gets any GCSE's)

(to complicate things, I've a younger one who'd be going into S2 or S3 depending on now or Aug but I'm thinking less critical as not exam yrs?

Some schools do Nat 5s over 2 years (S3 and S4) so your younger DC would want to be involved in the choosing of options at the end of S2 if that is what that school does. I think that could be done remotely and as you say not as critical time at all.

So, choice of 2 options - do a pros and cons sheet and get him involved?

oh if about 30% change subjects then he really wouldn't be the only one then?

Yes very rigid thinking. My circs are quite constrained.
I am scared for his MH moving him now and scared if he fails his english exams and moving him then.
He wants me to make the choice but also says he wants to wait.

I'd give a great deal for a crystal ball...

oh - last Qu, honest -

can he just leave school at 16 in Scotland?
(it seems unlikely to me as his ASD means he is 'younger' than his years. I am his Carer and have a better chance of giving him a stable home there than here which is one of my main motivations - so he has somewhere to dip in and out of as he moves towards a more independent life (important for all young people these days but esp if extra SN / SEN)

Crystal ball would be ideal!

Lots change based on results achieved or just because they've decided a different path or weren't enjoying their other subjects etc. and then of course there will likely be others who've moved into the school from outside Scotland or even from other Scottish schools but decide on different subjects.

If you came now, the school may offer him a reduced timetable based on what he might choose for 5th year? So maybe just 5 Nat 5s rather than however many GCSES he's doing? He may then get some free slots for self study to catch up on any differences? Might be worth asking if that's a possibility.

I think he is clear he'd rather wait.
And if he is not the only one changing then that would help.

Do those who change start their changed Nat 5's / Highers a bit late too?