Is it more crazy to start Nat 5's now, or start them late next year?

[52andblue]

I have been living in England (but kids went to Primary in Scotland)
Ds is taking GCSE's - poor school, not doing well, bullied. ASD.
Not on course to pass any GCSE's at present (last assessed a year ago and the grades were not predicted pass grades at that point)
School says; 'it doesn't matter if he passes his exams'. He won't do well due to the ASD / Dyslexia, but he himself wants to pass some.

I need (for a variety of reasons) to return to Scotland next summer.

I was going to wait till then and not disrupt his GCSE year - but
He is at an awful School (in special measures), badly bullied, miserable, just had a MH issue. So, I am considering changing now.
(I have spoken to his MH team who say that his current situation is contributing to his issues and a change might be wise)
He'd be 11 weeks behind in his Nat 5 courses which seems madness.

But.. if we wait until next summer the GCSE's (which will run late) will not be held until July and the Nat 5's will start in May. So, he'd still be later (not as late, but still late). So he might fail GCSE's and end up starting late and feeling out of sync then too.

Purely on an exam / timings front (as only I can judge re the other issues and don'' want to go into details) which would be 'least worst'?

Yes, he can leave at 16. Technically there is a push to record a "positive destination" i.e. stay in school/college/uni/work/apprenticeship. In practice is really depends, my nephew just decided before the end of S5 that he didn't want to stay and it was a case of my BiL taking him in to sign himself out and that was that - there was no attempt to try to get him to stay. He is quite academic and also no trouble so not a case of trying to get rid by any means. That was a year and a half ago and apart from a part time class for some months in Computer Aided Design, he's not done anything.

The problem is that this year there is a lack of apprenticeships and so quite a lot of non academic DC have been trying to get into college classes and there haven't been enough spaces, but it really depends on where you are I think.

My view is that they are better in school than doing nothing but if they can find something to be doing then crack on.

I really hope you are able to work this out. he is lucky to have you fighting his corner for his future.

Yep, they just start the new course in August. It helps if it's something they have some experience with and some will be easier to start than others. e.g. I think crashing a higher in a science having not studied it for a couple of years would be hard. Doing Politics when you've been doing other essay type subjects like english and RE would be fairly easy to pick up. presumably he'd mostly be choosing subjects he had done at GCSE though so he'd have recent experience even if the curriculum was a bit different.

DS2 swapped his Business studies type course for Geography as that was all there was in that column that he wasn't already doing or didn't want. Big mistake! He got there in the end though and resat his failed Maths Nat 5 and got a B! Now in 2nd year at Uni after a really not great 4th year.

If he starts now and joins s4 there's always the option to do National 4 in some of his subjects. Plenty it time to settle in, attempt nat5 and change if needed.

Yes he could do Nat4s this year (and would be entered for Nat5s if he looked like he would pass them) and then do the Nat5s properly next year. National 4 is internally assessed so no exam which might help?
We started our courses in May but I've had new students joining up to last week. I think joining in S4 would be easier than in S5 to be honest.

thank you all for further thoughts - it is SO helpful x

I think it makes more sense to move now - it is logical educationally (as he is going nowhere with his GCSE's anyway but might pass some Nat 4's or 5's which would be really good for his v low confidence)

Atm he is entered for Eng, Math, Triple Science, Design Tech, Engineering. But last assessments were for a grade D equivalent (in old money) and his Dyslexia and ASD anxiety really hinder him from doing well. I don't know if Highers or A levels will ever be an option.
I'd like to think so as he's actually really bright but he needs support with the school / public exam system. Where he is there is no pressure but 80% of kids at current school don't achieve 5 GCSE passes. There is no achievement vibe and there are few ongoing opportunities. He has said he's not stay for 6th form there anyway as it is 'a rubbish school' and he is correct about that (more parental guilt)

Financially it is safer (at least short term) and logistically too (that is 'my' issue but it will affect them if I cant get through winter/spring)
I'm a single parent of two kids with ASD living rurally and its hard.
Plus I get to return to a house with a low mortgage. It is interest only so in 10 years there is a problem but until then I'd be fairly secure. Atm I am renting in the middle of nowhere and they have to take a long pubic bus ride to school. We have power cuts and poor facilities.

But i am scared of the effect on his MH if I move him against his will,
He is struggling so much where he is. BUT I am afraid that the change involved in a change for the better would be too much for him atm.
If I let him have his choice now, he has a year to get used to the idea of moving. But it is MY JOB to parent him and make the hard choices.

I cannot stay here past next summer (and that is a stretch and not 100% definite) and he might find change then (after poss not doing well in GCSE's) very hard too. His Autism makes him very sensitive about 'fitting in with everyone else' (he doesn't). He has literally no friends at his current school. He - might - make some at the new one. But he is terrified of it. And I am terrified too. If I push him to move now he might do something silly. But if i leave him here to fail for a year and then we move to Scotland and he starts Nat 5's 'late' then he won't like that either. It is not so much what he 'likes' tbf, it is what he can cope with. If he is coping reasonably okay then so will I !

(erk! sorry for middle of night ramble, clearly this is about more than just the S4/ S5 issue)

Since you already know where you'll live, you already know which school he is in catchment for so can speak directly to learning support there for advice on settling him in. I think if you've decided to go you can start selling this as a really positive move and that might help him accept it? Whereas up to now you haven't been sure.
I don't understand the idea of leaving school without passing anything - here if N5 is too hard you do N4, if that is too hard there are some N3 courses running in most schools (ones I know anyway). The course should fit the child not the other way around.

@blacktiger

One of the issues for ds is he suffers from debilitating Anxiety. He is having such bad panic attacks that they thought it was epilepsy (it isn't thank goodness). He is literally terrified of exams.

Perhaps I should worry less about being 11 weeks behind on Nat 5's and get him over the border where they might assess him and get him to do some Nat 4's this year so at least he'd have something (as I can't see him sitting or passing any GCSE's)
I care more about his MH than any exams right now but he cares & if he fails (or fails to sit) the lot then that will damage his confidence in the longer run I think)?

Poor lad, DS has selective mutism with his anxiety and he literally can't speak. These things are so impactive.

He got to sit his exams using IT (because of his handwriting) which meant he was in a smaller room either with just an assessor or with only a small number of pupils. Your DS would probably do the same and although DS wasn't given spell check etc as part of his support, there is obviously that facility.

Nat 4s have no exam and as PPs say, may be the perfect stepping stone so he has something under his belt.

It hasn't been finalised what is happening in relation to any additional internal assessment for the coming year's exams in SCotland but that info hopefully will be available soon.

Also, I've heard good things about weighted blankets in relation to anxiety so thing of getting one for DS, is this something that you've heard about or used?

Hi @WaxOnFeckOff

Yes, I've recently bought weighted blankets for both my kids.
Ds is ASD/Anxiety and 'epilepsy' type seizures (not epilepsy but seeing Dr tomorrow to discuss) Dd is ASD / PDA with selective mutism.

I've found that the blankets are really helpful. DD loved hers immediately. Ds was not keen but once tried he now asked for a second (one under and one over at night - I think the velvety texture is nice too?) I paid about £40 each for mine and I think they are worth it.

Ive just sent the prospective new school a Qu about Nat 4's as he is in his room hiding under the duvet at the very thought of GCSE's poor sod.

That's good to know about the blankets, I'm going to go for it I think-certainly can't do any harm.

Hopefully positive news about Nat 4 might sweeten the deal for DS? Balancing off the move and change with the lack of exams?

It seems to be that you have little to lose. He’s at a rubbish school where he’s bullied , he doesn't get the support he needs and he’s going to fail all his GCSEs anyway ( poor DS and poor you).

If you move to Scotland now into the catchment of a good school he can start straight away in S4. He will be one of the oldest ones but The other kids will just accept he’s moved from England ( everyone knows they have a different system there ).

He can sit some national 4 this year - no exams, all course work. Or even Nat 5 if they think he has a sporting chance.

Most schools take 3rd and 4th year to do the Nat 5 curriculum so he’s a whole year behind on most. Of course I don’t know how much overlap there is on the curricula but the school will know and be able to assess where he’s at.

He can do Nat 5 in 5th year and highers in 6th year if he’s able. Or there are lots of vocational courses he can do through the school / at college part time. It’s pretty flexible in most schools.

They are very unlikely to make him sit exams he will definitely fail - that looks bad for the school and the pupil.

Why don’t you tell us which area / school in case anyone can give you advice ?

Really feel for you. You sound like a great mum. Have you explored/ would you potentially be interested in a non manstream school ? Smaller classes/ extra support etc, maybe less overwhelming.

Oh sorry didn't read your posts properly and it was autism related anxiety.

Hi again, thanks for further posts

@ALLIS0N & @Scotslassie1

Scottish school started Nat 5 in May so they are 11 weeks into 30 week course, they tell me. If he moved next summer he'd be 3/4 weeks behind and maybe not get all his 1st choices.

Spoke to his Consultant yesterday and his Psychiatrist last week.
Both say a fresh start might be helpful but also to consider the stress of a sudden move also. Ds wants to move next summer, Dd now as she'd be going to a new high school here for only 1 year which is unfair.

Ds has such severe benign motor tics that he was referred for an epilepsy assessment as they thought it was Myoclonic seizures. After an EEG, it is clear it is not epilepsy, thank goodness, but it does leave him with the issue of quite severe motor tics (he falls to the ground and spasms when it's bad). Consultant says he will 'master them in the right environment'. Not where he is now. But if we move a new school may stress and he WILL be bullied about it as it's v noticeable.

The Scottish school is in the borders (we were at a Primary feeder and only moved away because there was such little support for his autism - it's known for it -friends in neighbouring areas have quite different experiences but this LA isn't good). My hope is that we return with DX and they behave more helpfully. It is a risk as my younger child also has ASD and for her it manifests in anxiety based school refusal. Here, she managed 52% last year. no extra support at all.

If i had a magic wand I'd have an entirely fresh start and a small supportive school - non mainstream would be fine. But because both my kids speak (though younger is basically selectively mute at school - this is on her dx) and give eye contact and are supremely well behaved (ASD rules driven) then they do not qualify for non mainstream.

Scottish school started Nat 5 in May so they are 11 weeks into 30 week course, they tell me. If he moved next summer he'd be 3/4 weeks behind and maybe not get all his 1st choices

I’m confused. This year Schools have been closed since March and only reopened on 11 August. So they can’t possible be 11 weeks in now.

In normal years, most High schools start the new year around 1 June after the exams finish.

Most schools do nat 5 over two years but obviously This is one that does then over one year ( they usually do fewer).

maybe not get all his 1st choices

There’s always a renegotiation of subject choices for S5 and S6 Just after the exam results come out around 7 August. And more changes for S3, 5 and 6 when they go back in August and decide they don’t like x subject.

The school don’t seem helpful. I’m just a parent and I know all this.

I don’t know anything about the types of support you are looking for. But if you Already know that the school and the LA are not good with autism, why ON EARTH are you thinking Of moving back there ?

Why not find a school / LA with a better track record ? Scotland is a big place and all cities have several LA within their travel to work area.

What about a high school that has a SN unit within a mainstream school?

@ALLIS0N
Yes, I wondered that too.
The school said that 'this year we started much earlier due to fears around lockdown learning so the students are already at least 11 weeks into their 30 week Nat 5 courses'

Yy re 'why on earth'. But this time I'd be returning with 2 diagnoses.
And, for complicated reasons, it's the only chance I have of giving them stable housing, But I worry about it. Neither option is good.

We absolutely started our new year's courses in May. All the work was posted on our online platform and everything fed back on (upon?) meaning it is hard, though not impossible, to catch up if you join now.

yes, he'd have a lot to catch up on which would put a lot of pressure on :(

I think that if the school and LA have a poor record on SN they will not become good or even acceptable once you have a diagnosis.

Is this one house and school your only option?

Why are they talking about Nat 5 when it sounds like your son Would be better suited to Nat 4 this year ?

Yes, I've emailed them to ask about Nat4 but not heard back yet.
I don't know if the High School in particular has a poor record on SN but the LA were difficult when we ran into issues at Primary level.

Yes, this one house (and school as its fairly rural) is only option.
I have been trying to sell it but no luck so far.
This means my IS benefits (which I need to look after kids) are time limited at this end. So, I have to go back, either now (and retain his DLA under Scottish rules for 2 more years which means my Carers allowance is safe till then) or next summer at the latest. Finances (and exams) are far less important than his MH but if I cannot pay the rent then that's an issue too.
It is a complicated mess.

It does sound very complicated, you are balancing so many different issues.

Not easy for you.

At least of you know they are going to be difficult you can do all your research and go in well prepared, knowing what you want, what he’s entitled to and what you will settle for.

He can do nat 5's in 5th year.

I am in the the south of Scotland can you say the LA you are moving too? I have a dyslexic child with other issues doing nat5 this year and newly diagnosed with autism p6 if it's same LA I might have some insight on schools options etc.

@ALLIS0N yes it is complicated x

@umberellaonesie

thanks, I'll pm you. x