Scottish schools opening

[chocciechocface]

I was ready for schools opening, but this new research has given me pause for thought. I think this came out after Sturgeon's decision. What do you all think?

www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/31/georgia-children-covid-outbreak/#click=t.co/Y9gSG9zENz

Quote from the article:

"A new report suggests that children of all ages are susceptible to coronavirus infection and may also spread it to others — a finding likely to intensify an already fraught discussion about the risks of sending children back to school this fall.

The analysis, released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, details an outbreak at a sleep-away camp in Georgia last month in which 260 children and staffers — more than three-quarters of the 344 tested — contracted the virus less than a week after spending time together in close quarters. The children had a median age of 12. The camp had required all 597 campers and staff members to provide documentation that they had tested negative for the virus before coming. Staff were required to wear masks, but children were not."

That's a truly terrifying Facebook group. I've just read a list as to why this isn't really a pandemic and the reasons include:

Funeral homes don't seem to be that busy.

We all don't know 50 people who have died from it.

The projected numbers of death kept changing.

What utter stupidity. Almost every post is idiotic.

@wait thank you - you've managed to make me laugh at this a little. I try to stay off the usforthem site as it's like watching a car crash - you want to look away but just can't.

Their blatant disregard for teachers and other school staff is disturbing. The idea of stalking my pupils with a 2m cotton swab is exactly what they seem to think.

Right now my main annoyance is that the SG seem to have accidentally started following their thinking. Lots of "let us reassure pupils, let us reassure parents" they've gave in trying to reassure teachers - because they can't.

I've sat and made a list of classes that I'll be wearing a mask in next week following my experience last week (I teach ncct in primary). I'm looking forward to the many complaints from parents for it. I just keep trying to reiterate - I just want to go to work in an environment that feels remotely safe. Just like every other working person in the country. What other job requires you to be so close to so many people with no protection? People were desperate for schools to go back. Do they not realise that if teachers have no protection they'll soon be closed again as we'll all be off sick or isolating?

Prettybird thanks so much for those lovely words. I feel very privileged to have the job that I do and the voice of my own amazing English teacher echoes in my ears often. When he died a few years ago the posts in the Facebook group for formal pupils were testimony to the impact he had on countless pupils.

DD2 had her eyes opened to her cringeworthy maw during freshers when she met some kids from my school . From helping them through friendship problems, something funny that happened in class to an unexpected good result that they put down to my help seemed they all had a story. I think my subject makes these sort of things happen organically . Coming to teaching later in life allowed me to have 4 DDs and my (normally) great job and to appreciate that learning doesn't have to be a linear journey which is great to share.

I am realistic about the impossibility of pleasing everybody all of the time but I certainly don't set out to provoke.

Wait made me chuckle too picturing a cotton bud like the pugil sticks from Gladiators - showing my age.

@MumofHunter that transcript (from Tuesday?) is only what Nicola Sturgeon said. Every day we also have statements from various cabinet secretaries about other topics that stray away from immediate updates on clusters and infection numbers and instead promote policies, and this is where the unfair political exposure comes in (as well as the media questions as Wings says). Recently we’ve had statements on Green energy schemes, requests to Westminster about furlough, education policy, even schemes to use cinemas in court cases (probably others too I’ve forgotten about). If NS kept it purely as an update about statistics and cluster details there’d be far less to object to, and disagreeing that the Scottish government should have this daily platform to promote policies doesn’t make us ‘idiots’ (nice dismissal of another point of view there).

On the masks issue, personally I hope my Primary aged child isn’t required to wear a mask all day as I think that would seriously impact his learning and he’s quite shy to start with. I’d probably feel differently if he was in secondary. I wouldn’t object to the teacher wearing one if she chose to though and I don’t expect things to be normal.

Yesterday a friend of mine (actually, db's ex wife) posted on my FB time line that Yesterday on the Today Programme a reporter said "There were less hiding places... etc etc" and clear as a bell I heard voice saying "Fewer, even."

Yes .. the 'chasing with a cotton swab' is yet another example of people refusing to watch the public health updates because they're done by the FM and then coming onto Mumsnet or the UsForThem page and writing absolute nonsense which no one has never been said will be done.

It's quite sad. And also terrifying in equal measure.

And yes, re the no transmission in schools- how do they know that?
What's needed is a fb page for a safe return to school where people can discuss how to have schools open and as safely as possible.
Oh and I know I shouldn't look but I stupidly did. UsForThem is run by an ex pr person for the Tory party. Their claim to be politically neutral is BS. And now they have a poll for who you'll vote for in the next elections and a string of anti SNP comments ( containing info which isn't correct).

@mumofhunter the 50/50 in school campaign group on twitter seems to be far more measured and sensible than Us for Them. They're looking at safer reopening of schools and plans for blended learning if it's needed.

Recently we’ve had statements on Green energy schemes, requests to Westminster about furlough, education policy, even schemes to use cinemas in court cases

I don't see the direct covid link for green energy schemes, but the rest are relevant information for the briefing.

I'm looking forward to the many complaints from parents
Hopefully that won't happen. I know in one of my relatives' primary schools, there are teachers wearing masks and visors. No-one has complained. The anti-mask, UsForThem brigade represent less than 1% of parents.
For the posters mentioning the Hate Bill. There's a separate thread about it. Iirc nobody supports it but I'm not rehashing it here.

Thanks Invisimama

Yes I guess it's important to remember that UsForThem are the extreme and 99 per cent of parents do care about teachers' health.

For me I think it's just a matter of time- I've no doubt there 's children in my school with Covid. The school nearest to us has cases as does the secondary. And we're only a week in.

I think mask wearing is sensible and the disposable ones, although terrible for the environment, are much easier to wear all day.

I just can't see how I'll look after my own 3 if I get it but there are others who are much more at risk so I really feel for them.

I think the councils have been pretty rubbish in their risk assessments also. I know in mine no one from h and s has visited any schools.

So we have been back at primary school for a week and a half. On Friday half of my sons class was off sick, on Sunday he came down with a bad cold. He had a temperature last night so booked a test this morning. It’s more than likely not COVID 19 but we will isolate until the results and keep our other child off school too. The problem is that’s us missing work and school now and either he’s caught COVID at school or he’s caught another bug and this is going to keep happening again and again. And I am responsible enough to keep kids off and get test but what about all the people who won’t bother or who understandably stop bothering after several bugs have done the rounds. Just feeling a bit fed up at the thought of it all to be honest ☹️

Both mine are ill too. If the various safety measures put in place can't stop a sniffly nose, then how are they going to stop the coronavirus?

I've been doing daily temperature checks on my 2 since school started. 2 year old had random horrible virus last Saturday, negative Covid swab same day. Could have been from school (via school aged DC) could have been from life generally, no way to tell. She's had no hint of illness but definitely gets fewer bugs and if she does is far less ill than her brother - she was absolutely fine with chickenpox, barely itchy, don't think she even had a temp above 38 (spots absolutely characteristic and rife in her class that term) and bored as hell staying in while darling brother was holding a 40 degree temp after Calpol, lots of wheezes and crackles when he developed it 2 weeks later!

If she's ill I'll be keeping her off, even if it's not Covid it's not fair on families who don't have access to cars to access drive thru test centres and are likely to lose income isolating awaiting a postal test!

To be fair, ds had a "postal test" up in Aberdeen: got it within a day and got the result the following day. Don't know if they were doing things more quickly up there because of the outbreak up there though.

....the result gets emailed back.

I don’t think people realise schools are really petri dishes. I’ve been teaching nearly 10 years and I’m generally immune to sniffles, whereas first year teachers or teachers moving schools tend to catch everything.

Even still, 1 week back and I’ve got a runny nose, I’m shattered and my throat is aching because I’m suddenly projecting at teacher volume again.

@randomsabreuse

I've been doing daily temperature checks on my 2 since school started. 2 year old had random horrible virus last Saturday, negative Covid swab same day. Could have been from school (via school aged DC) could have been from life generally, no way to tell. She's had no hint of illness but definitely gets fewer bugs and if she does is far less ill than her brother - she was absolutely fine with chickenpox, barely itchy, don't think she even had a temp above 38 (spots absolutely characteristic and rife in her class that term) and bored as hell staying in while darling brother was holding a 40 degree temp after Calpol, lots of wheezes and crackles when he developed it 2 weeks later!

If she's ill I'll be keeping her off, even if it's not Covid it's not fair on families who don't have access to cars to access drive thru test centres and are likely to lose income isolating awaiting a postal test!

That's a very good idea - temperature checks. We'll start doing the same. And thank you so much for understanding the impact of 'general bugs' on other families. I am seriously pissed off the DC are sick within two weeks of school starting. It suggests to me that someone sent in a sniffly child.

Is it possible to request tests to have ready at home just in case? Or do they have to be used and sent back immediately?

The temperature check is a very good idea. We have been randomly checking oxygen saturation levels since US experience showed people with Covid had reduced oxygen saturation even when they felt well.
I'm a bit bemused by the temperature threshold. According to the NHS it's over 38 but pre-Covid, our school would send DCs home if they had a temp of 37.5 sometimes even 37.4 depending on other symptoms.

37.8 is the ear temperature threshold for testing. We have the same Braun in ear one most of the drs have (from when DH was on chemo). Other locations have different thresholds iirc. Forehead isn't particularly accurate. Armpit is not as consistent but easier than under tongue for DC. Fever threshold is lower on that but no idea what it is!

Normal for humans (main med background in this family isn't human...) is 37 +/- 0.5 degree. Digital thermometers are slightly less accurate than the old mercury type.

DD rarely gets temperatures at all but generally runs at 37.3 (rarely wears a coat), mine varies with my cycle, DH is generally 36.5.

@chocciechocface

Is it possible to request tests to have ready at home just in case? Or do they have to be used and sent back immediately?

I would doubt it - I asked for tests for my kids last week and was told no because they didn't have any of the main three symptoms, just sore throats, hoarseness and headaches. I can't see them giving them out just in case people want to have a stash.

"I am seriously pissed off the DC are sick within two weeks of school starting. It suggests to me that someone sent in a sniffly child"

Thing is though - are we really expecting people to keep kids home every time they have a runny nose? FWIW I did keep mine home last week, but given that they're fine apart from very mild cold symptoms, they have to go back now!

People will lose their jobs in droves if they're expected to keep them home every time their children demonstrably have a cold and not Covid.

It's a fragile trust and so easily broken. We have to trust our colleagues not come in with infections as a whole department or the staff of a primary off pending tests results will have a huge impact on our pupils. We have to trust parents likewise and parents have to trust each other.

None of us can self diagnose if this is to work. And I suffer from chronic biannual rhinitis so am never without a sniff. I am being super vigilant for anything that is not my typical conditions but I have had very little sense taste and even less smell for 10 years