Scottish schools opening

[chocciechocface]

I was ready for schools opening, but this new research has given me pause for thought. I think this came out after Sturgeon's decision. What do you all think?

www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/31/georgia-children-covid-outbreak/#click=t.co/Y9gSG9zENz

Quote from the article:

"A new report suggests that children of all ages are susceptible to coronavirus infection and may also spread it to others — a finding likely to intensify an already fraught discussion about the risks of sending children back to school this fall.

The analysis, released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, details an outbreak at a sleep-away camp in Georgia last month in which 260 children and staffers — more than three-quarters of the 344 tested — contracted the virus less than a week after spending time together in close quarters. The children had a median age of 12. The camp had required all 597 campers and staff members to provide documentation that they had tested negative for the virus before coming. Staff were required to wear masks, but children were not."

I don't know why the strike-out appeared.

www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/07/31/new-evidence-suggests-young-children-spread-covid-19-more-efficiently-than-adults/

Yes, I saw that too.

Honestly? I don't think what's been going on in America has any relevance whatsoever.

Schools need to open. Our kids have missed too much and the shit-show which was "blended learning" was not even second-rate, it was about eighth-rate.

Oh, and your article is comparing a group of people spending 24/7 together and sleeping in close proximity. Not the same as schools at all.

During the height of the Covid cases, not one single case was linked to children or adults in the hub schools in Glasgow. Now rates in the community are much, much lower.

Zero deaths in the under 25s in Scotland. In fact, only 11 deaths total in people under 40.

What do you propose - no school until a vaccine comes along, which might be years? Parents unable to work? Those of us with older secondary children totally floundering out of our depth trying to support learning in subjects we know nothing about? Yeah, that'll work.

I think there were high levels of community transmission before lockdown though at which point it was practically impossible to get a test - which means we do not really know the rate of transmission in schools among children or between children, young people and teachers.

As I understand it, the balance of evidence still suggests that children are at lower risk of transmitting the disease with some question marks over older children (I think that’s the Scottish government advisors’ position anyway). Whatever happens though, I think schools need to open in full for all kinds of reasons, and if pubs/restaurants etc need to shut to balance this out then so be it. Children cannot be expected to sacrifice their future prospects (and those due to take exams last year have already taken a huge blow) because of a virus that in the main is no risk to them.

I think when the levels of community transmission are low like they are here just now we can't really compare situations like the one in the article.

The cluster from the Aberdeen pub has got me thinking today though...that could just as easily be a bunch of 16/17 year olds. I worry that clusters like this will pop up in secondary schools prompting further closures. I'm all for the schools opening fully but wondering if we should be a bit more cautious with the senior school years

yes I'm starting to get a bit more worried now too.

I want DD back at school for a proper education but I don't want the school to get closed in september or october either.

Yes more senior pupils could cause a cluster, and a return to the office for us parents can also cause clusters. Its a real worry.

Now it is getting closer it is a concern. Let's hope they've got it right, it is such a huge unknown. Ds's school is 1400 pupils and 97% capacity so no chance of any distancing or effective hygiene measures.

We have had no contact from the school yet what the plans are in place for return to school.

wondering if we should be a bit more cautious with the senior school years

Agree, but I am probably just biased because I have one in S5!

sock yarn - I'm not drawing attention to American events as a source of concern. It's the science referred to in the articles that bothers me. The Forbes link makes the case more clearly:

"Two new studies, though from different parts of the world, have arrived at the same conclusion: that young children not only transmit SARS-CoV-2 efficiently, but may be major drivers of the pandemic as well. ".

Transmitting the disease efficiently means bringing it home to more vulnerable members of households. In our case, my children could inadvertently kill their father. Given how many colds mine bring home through the year, I think it's reasonable to be concerned.

Last year, DS's class was entirely wiped out with an e-coli bug, including the teacher.

What do I propose? I'd like to hear public health experts and the government address this updated science head on and more thought put into how to reduce the risk further. At the moment, no social distancing at all feels like gambling with lives.

My Dsis used the fab simile the other day describing her office (she's WFH but had to pop in for documents) the staff who had to remain onsite were in her observations "as socially distanced as a bunch of horny teenagers". I chuckled then thought "oh..."

I am parent of an S6 who is awaiting Higher results for exams she didn't sit. She may well have to recourse to 5 Highers if her results are poor. So I want schools back.

As I teacher I want to be back , remote teaching was relentless and stressful. I missed my pupils and colleagues and am full of great plans (so modest) for fun but gentle start for my new S1s, recovery but eyes on exams for my seniors etc. I feel I have to say this as there are posters who interpret any apprehension from teachers as them "not wanting to go back".

But spikes like Aberdeen and NL and yesterday having the highest number of new cases in 2 months are concerning. I try to focus on the positive and look at the stats re testing and percentages of live infection at large.

But my DD has a strict COVID protocol when she works as a waitress, wears a mask in public transport and observes distancing when she goes out for food with her mates. I wear a mask when shopping or if there is somewhere busy that I can't avoid.

This all goes out the window when she and I step foot in a school. That isn't fair to pupils or school staff and such a bizarre mixed message.

Add to the mix the rabid ranting on usforthem about what THEY will or will not allow ME to do regarding MY body and health because THEIR child is all important. Worries me as a professional and as a parent as my DC might have a classmate whose parent is one of these loons.

I have a DF who is just starting to enjoy freedom as shielding eases and want to spend time with but ...

Lidlfix - This exactly:

"This all goes out the window when she and I step foot in a school. That isn't fair to pupils or school staff and such a bizarre mixed message.

Add to the mix the rabid ranting on usforthem about what THEY will or will not allow ME to do regarding MY body and health because THEIR child is all important. Worries me as a professional and as a parent as my DC might have a classmate whose parent is one of these loons. "

We live in a rural area. My young children are supposed to share a school bus with those "horny teenagers". We've been told no changes to school transport at all and no requirement to wear masks on the bus. The nearby town has constant posts of teenagers gathering in the parks with locals complaining about it all.

And yes, in our area there are some 'it's all a hoax' types, and 'herd immunity' will sort it out. I'm not sure I want to gamble DH's life by having my child share a class with their child given I have no idea how seriously they have taken things. I can't really afford to indulge thoughts like that; the price we could pay is too high.

I do want my children to go back. I'm just not sure it's all been thought through. Personally, I felt happier about the blended proposal. As someone I know (who is a virologist) said: that's a 50% reduction in risk straight away.

Don't worry. We have the school nurses JF reminds us.

Have never seen one, known how DD can speak to them, or even what their names are. Never gotten any school nurse communications.

Do they really exist

Personally, I felt happier about the blended proposal. As someone I know (who is a virologist) said: that's a 50% reduction in risk straight away.

Not if the children are being sent to childcare or grandparents for the time they’re not in school, though.

We don’t know for sure how well children catch and spread the virus. There’s a lot of evidence that they don’t seem particularly high risk as infection vectors, especially compared to something like flu, but there’s also some evidence in the other direction.

We can’t shut schools indefinitely just in case though. What we can do is get community transmission rates as low as possible before reopening them, which is what we are doing here, unlike places like Georgia. I don’t think reading commentary from the US on schools reopening is helpful - it is a very politicised subject over there and they have really really high infection rates over most of the country.

I don’t want that to sound like I’m not at all worried, by the way. I am a bit worried, and I would feel more comfortable if there were more cautious measures particularly around secondary-age students (masks while walking around the school at least?). But I don’t think we can really take much from US commentary on US school planning when their situation is so different and the background is different too.

I really wish they'd close pubs again. Seeing the doubling of cases in Manchester gives me the fear.

@britINscotland exactly! I wanted to contact the school nurse for an issue my DS was having. Our school supposedly shares a nurse with other local schools although neither my DS nor me have ever seen him/her. The school directed me to the GP. GP surgery directed me back to school. I went backwards and forwards for weeks then finally gave up.

The reason I posted is because emerging science is suggesting that our assumptions that children do not spread the virus may be misplaced.

"Two new studies, though from different parts of the world, have arrived at the same conclusion: that young children not only transmit SARS-CoV-2 efficiently, but may be major drivers of the pandemic as well. "

Yes choccie, children were found to be the main drivers in Israel aswell and Covid was in children/ schools in Leicester. Hence why numbers need to be really low for it to be safe.

What gets to me on the UsForThem zoomers us they say, I'm not wearing a mask, no one will tell me what to do' and then spout off that schools need to stay open no matter how bad it gets. 🤔

I share the FM's sentiment in that the pictures of the bars at the weekend make me want to cry. 😪

I agree OP. I want my kids to have the full time education they need. But we can’t just forget we are in a pandemic. I think blended learning would give us have a chance of getting through winter without shutting schools and with minimum disruption. Just look at that pub in Aberdeen, one diner has COVID and passes it to 13 others. This will start happening in schools too.

AFAIK school nurses are just health visitors for older kids - their focus is on immunisation and potentially support for particularly vulnerable kids. they should be available to all kids for some other areas (like sexual health) but, like HVs, their availability is a bit mixed!

and I agree with the folk desperate to see schools reopen - with pubs, etc closed if needs be...

Shut the pubs and open the schools makes sense to me. But that will never happen, in Scotland alcohol reigns supreme.

It's really strange to see these posts having spent the summer reading about how children simply cannot pass the virus on, it's just like a cold etc etc. If there had been as many parents concerned about the risks as there were highly vocal usforthem freedom fighters we might not be entering this shitstorm. A teacher or pupil who has been shielding for months will, as of next week, go into a room not much bigger than many people's open plan kitchens, to sit side by side with up to 32 other teenagers (even closer than normal probably due to the need to leave a 2m box for the teacher at the front) with only an open window and a bottle of hand sanitizer to help them.
I don't know how blended learning would have worked (and Sockyarn I don't know how you can pronounce to be poor something that never came into affect - blended refers to mix of home and school) but I would much rather have taken my chances (and my dcs) with half the class in at a time.