When are we going back to school 2

[RaraRachael]

New thread as the last one was getting full. Feel free to discuss, moan, speculate on anything to do with Scottish schools and what may/not be happening.

I helped out in my daughters P3 class this year for two hours, and in that time the teacher had to physically hold down three kids who were trying to roam around (kindly, not pinned!) and stop one kid from punching another in the face by getting between them.

Distance cannot be maintained. It just can't.

YouBonnieBanks It's only Public Health England which have stopped reporting Covid figures due to them being incorrect NOT public health Scotland.

Agree with PPs- UsForThem contains a lot of false information.

Even the name irritates me; as if wanting extra precautions taken for you child's safety is somehow not being 'for' them

There’s a Chat thread about the Irish schools, apparently they’re still thinking about blended learning.

I am mostly ok about going back. I’m concerned about suddenly being put in lockdown as a community or having to isolate. It’s such a long, long way to December (we only get a week at Oct) and it seems inevitable.

I don’t think people realise just how unhygienic schools are. In my corridor, there are 6 classrooms, averaging about 27 per room. We have 6 sinks in the girls’ toilets and 6 in the boys’. That’s 12 sinks for about 160 children. Getting all their hands washed is pandemonium!

@KatySun, you said
^But they whipped up a storm in a very short space of time and Swinney caved, whilst arguing that blended learning was only ever the contingency.

I hope they are correct with their views that a return to full-time school is low risk and safe, because if they are not, it is on their heads. ^
Absolutely not. The SG is responsible. Both for good or evil.

I'd disagree that there is a lot of "false" information in the Us for Them group. You have to bear in mind that this is just a group of parents. I'm in the group - I'm not claiming any specialist knowledge. Some parents are doctors, or statisticians or whatever. Of course lots of the information and articles linked to support the group's argument, that's hardly surprising.

I know lots of people on the group personally and they are not the sort of politically-active parents who are constantly emailing MSPs about anything and everything. I think the Scottish government totally misjudged the strength of feeling from parents about schools not going back, and also were totally unaware how unhappy many parents/children were about the part-time schooling through the summer term too.

Sturgeon has made it very clear from the beginning that she was following the science - and the science shows that kids aren't at risk, and don't pass it on in the same way as adults. So there was really no justification for "blended learning". And all their bluster about how it was ever only a contingency - well, we can all see right through that one.

And yet we have teachers on here saying they feel concerned, worried for their safety, and like they've been left without adequate protection because kids are mainly fine.

How do we square those things?

Taking it with the SG. It is their fault for making scaremongering, rather than managing, their first only priority.

Sorry, not quite sure what you mean?

Every country impacted around the world has had a form of lockdown, and yet I see 'scaremongering' directed against NS quite often on these boards. New Zealand locked down entirely - to the point where the military were conducting curfew patrols - after a handful of cases on deaths, I can only assume Jacinda Arden is Top Scaremongerer In Chief.

@AudacityOfHope, I may be wrong, but NS wants to be the new Jacinda.
Let me ask you this: ok, NZ has zero cases and we assume there is no virus. What now? They live on their own for the foreseeable future, which might be years?
Look at the way NS communicates: it is all down to the public and their behaviour. If they are good they will be rewarded with schools, if they are not, then... No sorry. No schools.
The narrative should be more optimistic and more geared towards a pacific coexistence with the virus. Instead we have this constant carrot and stick approach which really unnerves me.

What have we learnt from the past months? Have we learnt anything? Or are we just going to repeat the same patterns over and over again?

There are schools closed all over the world, so I don't think you can blame Scottish government 'scaremongering' on that. Ireland are apparently still considering blended learning. I believe NYC and parts of the USA are too.

Even if children don't spread it, which still seems far from a definite scientific fact, there are still so many adults necessary to run a school.

Blending learning would give us the ability to stagger arrivals and dismissals, as well as playtimes and lunchtimes, enforce hand washing, and settle children back into school gently. All of this would also help the adults social distance from each other.

What exactly is wrong with emphasising that viruses spread easily or not depending on the behaviour of the individual? It's a fact.

This talk of NS rewarding good behaviour with schools is just childish daft nonsense.

"The narrative should be more optimistic " - like Boris, who talks of normality by Christmas, while his Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Patrick Vallance says otherwise? I know whose style I prefer.

I am in the usforthem group too (agree its a crap name)

Many of them seem convinced that it will be full time learning all year now and that there wont be another U Turn.

I'm less convinced.

@bananaTreeBirdie,
There are schools closed all over the world, so I don't think you can blame Scottish government 'scaremongering'
I think that goes under the "learn from past experiences" category.
Public health decision must have benefits that outweigh harms, and that is particularly true of schools. Part time schooling was a failure (with some exceptions) across the board internationally, going forward with it seems rather shortsighted. Better plans for managing the virus are needed.
In any case, you can have staggered entry and lunches all the same. The number of classes is the same, there are just more children in the bubble.
Rather than concentrating on schools, the way care homes and hospitals are organized are a much bigger priority. Has anything been said about it? (I don't follow that particular thread, so I just don't know)

Personally, I prefer Boris's approach, if anything it is not carrot and stick, and doom and gloom.
I think instinctively he dislikes the draconian measures, hence, for example, the hesitation on masks.
Also, let's face it: the Science doesn't exists, only what fits the narrative. Take masks... The evidence wasn't there before and it is not now. May help, may not, may do damage, may do nothing. We just don't know and the decision is political. That is perfectly fine, but let's not pretend is based on "the Science".

Public health decision must have benefits that outweigh harms

This is what sums it up in a nutshell. The potential risk of a few cases of Covid by sending all kids back into school full time is less than the potential risk of a whole host of other factors like mental health problems, impact on vulnerable children and attainment.

It's all very well talking about easing children in and staggering playtime in primary schools. But that's only half our kids. The other half are in senior school and cannot afford any more time off when they have Nat 5s/Highers looming and need grades to get into Uni or for whatever they want to do in the future.

Also agree that "blended learning" was an unmitigated disaster. (Not the teachers' fault at all. They had their hands tied by the government and Councils and were given about 5 minutes to plan it all.)

@AudacityOfHope, I quite agree that this carrot and stick approach is nonsense and it annoys me so much. NS just keeps on (being reported as) saying that "as long as the numbers are down", "as long as we push the numbers down", then you can get X or Y.
The corollary of this way of thinking is that as soon as there is an outbreak the public will be blamed - never mind if the outbreak is in care home, meat factory or wherever - and we start closing again.
Closing can only be a VERY last resort measure, NOT the go-to solution.

I have heard from someone who works in SG on education that they are still scenario planning for 3 different scenarios, a 40% return, a 50% return and 100% return and that allowing the 100% option really will depend on the number of cases etc over the next fortnight being low enough so it is by no means a done deal. While waiting so long is frustrating I do think they are now trying their best in SG to make a decision based on the latest info and that means we all have to accept a certain amount of uncertainty as the situation evolves

@Katysun

Sorry to derail the thread but may I ask about your daughter and her symptoms?

In late March I had a very burny, right feeling chest and huge pressure in the middle like an elephant sitting on it or a bra too tight. I had no apparent cough and no temperature but felt very fatigued. My glands in my neck were also swollen which would indicate fighting a bug of some sort. I cannot recall ever having a chest infection before. I also had abdominal pains and reflux

I have since been diagnosed with costochondritis and still feel intermittent chest pain after exercise and general fatigue.

Do these symptoms match your daughter's Covid ones at all? I was never tested. I did not have the two typical symptoms at the time - fever and cough.

I wish her a speedy recovery. x

@pinkcarpet I think that's a good approach.

Arkadia, I wasn't saying the carrot and stick approach is nonsense - I was saying that about your interpretation of the message. I don't believe it is carrot and stick, I believe it's pretty honest.

But if you prefer Boris' based-on-virtually-nothing plan to Make Christmas Great Again then we're probably pretty far apart in our opinions generally.

We were being offered one week out of three on their "blended" approach.

That's really not good enough. If they want full time learning without social distancing then they need to throw a shit load of money at it in terms of recruiting more staff, repurposing alternative buildings and whatever else. If they want blended learning to work then again they need to throw a huge effort into making it work.

Not just saying to Councils to do their best and hope that employers are flexible.

Also agree that the way Nicola Sturgeon is coming across is quite "headmistressy" - do as you're told, don't be naughty, if we catch you breaking the rules then there'll be trouble.

I also think there are a lot of language choices which are interesting - she talks about the number of people who are in hospital with covid, which is widely interpreted as the number of people in hospital because of covid. Not the same thing at all. And the fact that tehy are not showing graphs makes it much harder to track changes - she says for example 18 new cases and you think that's really high as you have nothing to compare it against. If she showed a graph stating that a week ago it was 48 and a month ago it was 208 you'd have a different impression.

thank goodness for the travelling tabby site!!

@SockYarn

I'd disagree that there is a lot of "false" information in the Us for Them group. You have to bear in mind that this is just a group of parents. I'm in the group - I'm not claiming any specialist knowledge. Some parents are doctors, or statisticians or whatever. Of course lots of the information and articles linked to support the group's argument, that's hardly surprising.

I know lots of people on the group personally and they are not the sort of politically-active parents who are constantly emailing MSPs about anything and everything. I think the Scottish government totally misjudged the strength of feeling from parents about schools not going back, and also were totally unaware how unhappy many parents/children were about the part-time schooling through the summer term too.

Sturgeon has made it very clear from the beginning that she was following the science - and the science shows that kids aren't at risk, and don't pass it on in the same way as adults. So there was really no justification for "blended learning". And all their bluster about how it was ever only a contingency - well, we can all see right through that one.

I agree with this.

Teachers just need to get on with it like other workers now.

No other workers are being asked to go back with no measures at all in place.

And the number of cases is rising. 49 new cases in the past three days iirc? I can't find any information about the reason for this increase (increased testing) but it's a slightly worrying development.