When are we going back to school 2

[RaraRachael]

New thread as the last one was getting full. Feel free to discuss, moan, speculate on anything to do with Scottish schools and what may/not be happening.

We're told teachers don't need PPE.
Even though other employees use it.

I don't think anyone is saying that schools should go back to business as usual with no precautions or new safety and cleaning routines? Obviously there needs to be some measures put in place and hopefully the guidance on 30th July will detail what is going to happen in that regard.

It does appear that teachers on here seem to be the only people refusing to go back to work and that no measures put in place will be 'safe' enough for them. Everyone is dealing with an element of risk at the moment, it can't be completely eliminated and it needs to be balanced with the harm that will be caused by not returning.

NONE of us are refusing to go back to work.
Just putting that in capitals as you this seems to be a common misconception.
So far we are back in with no additional measures to protect us from pupils or pupils from us, that I am aware of. Maybe if the guidance was released sooner, more fears would be lessened?

It does appear that teachers on here seem to be the only people refusing to go back to work and that no measures put in place will be 'safe' enough for them.

No one has said that. What teachers are trying to point out is that there are no feasible measures being put in place if/when we return full time.

Our schools do not have the space to socially distance.

They do not have the space or facilities to accomodate handwashing.

I don't think anyone is saying that schools should go back to business as usual with no precautions or new safety and cleaning routines

That is exactly what will happen with a full time return. As I’ve said before, we have nearly 170 children using 12 sinks. You tell me how we get them all to wash their hands hygienically at 9, 10.30, 12.15 and 3.

The only thing we can hope for is increased daily cleaning. Can John Swinney recruit hundreds of extra cleaners between 1-10 August?

Are parents not concerned by posts that imply some parents would ignore symptoms as their kids get every cold going and have missed enough school as it is?

I'm a parent and that appalls me.

But let's keep it to those pesky teachers who are (not one of us has said it on this thread but hey don't let the truth get in the way) refusing to go back to work.

I hope that people won't be sending their children in with 'snivels'. But I think relying on parents might not be enough. I think for the foreseeable the school should be allowed to police illness more. I know this will be unpopular, but school is not free childcare and we can't let this spread accross the whole school population because people can't take time off when their kids are ill.

There should be temperature checks and if a child gets sent home because of illness they should stay at home until they have a negative test or for the 7 days (including siblings). This will be massively disruptive, but until we are sure we can contain it once schools are open there should be a zero tolerance policy. For most this will probably still be better than blended learning, but it can't be business as usual.

My council are now advertising for school cleaners and more supply staff.

My teacher friend who wanted HR / lawyer this morning has now apparently quit teaching (handed notice in she says on FB) and refusing to return to teaching until vaccine is found. Not sure how she intends to feed her family...she's a single parent. Maybe she has another job lined up. Who knows. I'm not going to ask but will surely find out soon enough. Wish I could afford to just quit but hey ho, going back to work when they tell me to. (trying to argue for WFH though).

Our council had started interviews away back in Feb for supply staff but no one had heard back until June when suddenly they took on many new supply staff. They've also contacted supply staff for their availability from August and if you already work somewhere they needed to know where. We think they'll limit staff to one school to try and prevent less people going in to various schools.

When I worked in the hubs, we had a team of cleaners going behind us so at lunchtime they went into the rooms we used and wiped down tables and chairs etc. Then they went into the dinner hall and throughly cleaned it there. Then they wiped down all equipment outside at the end of the day and at 4pm we went into the hall for a movie, the cleaning staff started sorting everything out in the rooms before cleaning the hall again.

That sounds very efficient!

We have one cleaner per corridor currently and each room is cleaned every second day. I’d feel so much better with a high standard of daily cleaning.

I’d also like to see some sort of reassurance about the deployment of supply teachers. In some schools I’ve worked in supply teachers refused to go to certain areas.

Wondering which way this is going to go with the schools. The SG said we'd need to be in phase 4 for full time schooling in August and yet today NS is saying we will be in phase 3 considerably longer than 3 weeks...hmm

She definitely today seemed to be saying people in offices etc should continue to wfh if possible until a later date than the schools return, didn't she? (I was being distracted during the speech)

@walksen

I thought if you had s negative test you can return to work but onli if you do not have symptoms ( to allow for false negatives ) low viral load etc.

So negative test and runny nose = back to work

Negative test cough fever no smell etc continue to isolate.

Oh really? That's interesting.

My concern is that my 2 are returning to nursery after a long absence so will probably catch all sorts, so we'll probably be self isolating fairly often.

@Invisimamma

I don't think anyone is saying that schools should go back to business as usual with no precautions or new safety and cleaning routines? Obviously there needs to be some measures put in place and hopefully the guidance on 30th July will detail what is going to happen in that regard.

It does appear that teachers on here seem to be the only people refusing to go back to work and that no measures put in place will be 'safe' enough for them. Everyone is dealing with an element of risk at the moment, it can't be completely eliminated and it needs to be balanced with the harm that will be caused by not returning.

Actually, as a teacher I have no intention of 'refusing' to go back to work, and most safety measures, if put in place, will reassure me. My concern is that NO safety measures will be put in place at all.

It seems little to no safety measures were put in place at that call centre which is what I feel will be the case for many employers. Maybe a few social distancing signs. Some hand sanitisers. Thats it.

Schools and other public sector organisations (including mine) are likely to be more compliant hence why I get annoyed at teachers complaining. At least they are discussing it (even if you don't agree).

DH's workplace (which I have already said the government are heavily reliant on and cannot close in an outbreak) would prefer to make 1/3 of the staff redundant. DH has been very stressed and upset this week at losing some of his staff.

I'm wondering if the South Korea survey this week is making them have second thoughts. Perhaps we may see primary schools go back full time (in basically class bubbles) and most secindaries go back with blended learning, at least until the October break. If infection rates are still low in October we would really be doing well at suppressing community transmission.

Teachers are not saying they won't go back to work. They are saying that other public sector organisations get 1m + plus protection or ppe by law and schools staff vulnerable kids do not.

This is being denied to teachers because ppe and sd steps are only to be implemented "if possible". Social distancing with teenagers especially will be be impossible for some due to room size and as anyone who has been shopping knows you can try your best to distance from others but the other person needs to do it as well.

At the very least there should be masks worn when moving around the building by all over 11's. Really we all want a term of solid teaching and lessons but it is a real possibility that there could be lots of local lockdowns due to outbreaks and I am fearful of serious illness for some staff and tas I work with who are over 60. We have a lot of staff in their late 50's too

Somewhere, in the masses of releases over the last month, it was stated that schools may go back whilst we were still in phase 3. Can’t think where I read that but it was probably one of the many announcements in July.

No PPE whatsoever in my public sector organisation. No word on social distancing either. Although we are currently WFH but they are phasing us back into the workplace and we still don't really know what is expected of us or what the layout will be.

All I know is that the customer facing staff (and possibly more at risk!) are going back first. More information may come though but definitely no PPE so don't think another public sector organisation gets it better than teachers do.

And not all pupils can wear masks. My friend's daughter is hearing impaired, dyspraxic and autistic but in a mainstream school. She would really struggle with masks but as long as the teachers think it makes them safer!

What do you want teachers to say YonBonnie?

You despise the profession you have made that clear. Many times.

Change the record.

Some parents will want teachers to wear masks. Some won't.

Some pupils will also want us to wear masks and some won't.

Some parents will will want their DC to wear masks moving round the building and even in class. Some won't.

Ditto PPE, observing distancing, cleaning desks ...

And you will be right there saying we are wrong whatever comments we make.

I would hate to be so bitter . I am sorry for you.

I think most kids could wear masks. And surely 95% wearing them is better than 0. If they make a difference they should be worn.

I find it really strange how universities are dealing with this so differently from secondary schools, the older pupils surely could cope with a blended approach to free up some space so that not everyone has to be crammed into tiny classes.

Its the attitudes on here that I hate.

I resent having mine and DHs jobs negatively impacted because teachers think their needs are more important. I resent the implication that the rest of us are somehow safer (see PPE comment above).

I resent the constant complaints about money and having to do extra cleaning resulting from Covid when you still have a job in this difficult climate and will never lose that job, and also earn more the majority of us even after the unpaid holidays!

I am rofl at the shock news that your staff have no ppe or SD while working from home
Honestly there is no point engaging with you as you have wilfully misrepresented teachers' views throughout and have a massive chip on your shoulder about the profession. It would not matter what we said or did you would still be negative. I'm fed up with it.

I think if we don't want to make this whole thing unpleasant it's better if we try and work together. If the infection rates rise it'll be bad for all of us so we all have a common goal!!
And as with any profession you will have inspirational, motivated teachers and some that are a bit meh. We're all uncertain with what is safe and what is the best course of action, since this is so new. Surely you can sympathize with some of the worries?

All my banky / tax friends in the private sector have been told they will be working from home in the long term. Most have created office spaces at home because of this.
@Yoonbonnie teachers do not have any impact on whether you have to return physically to an office or not.

@YonBonnieBanks teachers have no say as to whether schools reopen, just as we had no say in their closure. Surely with your experience in schools you must be aware of how little say classroom teachers have in their day to day running. Despite what it suits people to think, teachers are not downing tools and refusing to return to school. They’re asking what the measures will be to minimise risk for everyone who works in or has contact with schools. It’s not a race to the bottom. It’s not okay that any employer is open or reopening without considering how they will minimise risk to their employees. I’m happy to wipe down my desks but I’d like the council to pay for the cleaning materials. It already costs me enough to pay for the resources in my room for the children to use and I object to adding cleaning materials to my family’s supermarket bill. Is that the type of complaint about money you resent?

What I resent as a teacher is people who take their own agenda and chip on their shoulder and twist it to blame teachers for everything. I’m sorry teaching wasn’t for you. It isn’t for everyone. My previous career wasn’t for me either but I don’t look down upon everyone who works in finance with disdain. Please remember that teaching parents are facing the same childcare related issues as all parents. Unless we are a two key worker household we have no access to hub childcare. If we have a 50% attendance model then I don’t have childcare and I can only work when my child is in school. I can’t work from home if schools are open to pupils so what do I do then and who looks after my class if I’m not there? Teachers do get it. We are in the same boat as everyone else. Only we are being blamed for the boat existing in the first place.