When are we going back to school 2

[RaraRachael]

New thread as the last one was getting full. Feel free to discuss, moan, speculate on anything to do with Scottish schools and what may/not be happening.

I have just caught up with the last few pages and unfortunately this is what my friends and I (all teachers) predicted would happen. Parents putting the blame on teachers who are concerned about safety. When the SG stated, at the end of term, that it was likely that schools would return on a full time basis we knew that there would be concern from the unions as it is their role to ensure that their members are working within a safe environment. The SG also knew this - the fact that they announced a full time return without discussing the return at the Covid Education Recovery Group is interesting and does make you question their reasoning. I have been really impressed by the SGs handling of the pandemic but the way this has been handled and the timing of the full time return announcement does not sit well with me.
The current guidelines that came out last week state that pupils would not socially distance but staff should, which I have to say is virtually impossible within a school. I teach in secondary and at times walking down the corridor at period change there is no way you can be 10 cm apart never mind 2m.
The comments regarding wiping down tables is also laughable. To wipe down a full class of tables between 2 periods is actually not really achievable so it may have to be the pupils are also involved in sanitising their workspace. As a teacher I have no concerns about cleaning to keep everyone safe but time will not allow us to do this properly.
As a parent I understand how challenging it is for everyone to attend their work if schools are not open so I also hope that we can work things out to have all pupils back in school in August. I think it is the best option for many pupils both emotionally and educationally but we have to balance this up against the health and safety implications. The current guidelines are so at odds to the guidelines in the community it is not surprising that school staff would question the rational behind them. Others workers in the country from office workers, shop workers etc have reduced numbers in their workspace and PPE when required.

It will definitely be interesting times ahead.

@Skyrain this is in no way meant to be goady or critical but how can you not socially distance from another teacher in the corridor in between lesson changes? I work in a big busy hospital and we manage it. We all keep to our left and walk single file and there's stickers on the floors and walls to remind everyone. In any case you are only passing people going in the opposite direction for a second.

Hi Skyrain, you read the thread and still posted? You are brave. Glad you did though. Interesting times we'd all prefer not be experiencing.

In our p1 Facebook group earlier someone asked when they are starting...we have 4 possible options. The general consensus is that they would have rather blended learning til October than attempting to cover all bases for childcare.

I'm blaming John Swinney for all of it.

Trump in the spirit of not being goady or critical have you ever walked down a secondary school corridor just after a bell has sounded? In my corridor 14 classes of 30 moving in opposite directions. I might be able to stay 2 metres from other adults (and well are we including over 15s?) but depends where I get shoved or my personal fave backpack batted.

And that's not a criticism of young people as spatial awareness and coordination is something that expanding limbs and developing brains grow into. In normal circs we just shrug and even find it endearing.

Patients in hospital are not really comparable- I too have worked in a hospital. You really don't get that volume of people moving around in a tiny space in a short period of time in a hospital even the beginning and end of "visiting hour" has no similarity.

Well, quite Lidlfix - in my DD’s school there are 1200 pupils and you will have the vast majority of these pupils changing classrooms at the same time.

I agree entirely with you Dinosaur

I've been in a hospital corridor recently and it was as described. I've been in them before lockdown and it wasn't that much busier. A secondary school changeover? Think football crowd instead. Think trying to get to the front at a rock concert. It's a scrum. Not only are many students moving past rooms to get to theirs, another group of up to 33 will be standing waiting to get into each of the rooms.
Corridors are one thing I really haven't missed about lockdown. Always made worse if you are a short teacher - the crowds part more easily for taller ones!

(And I'm only describing normal, good behaviour, if a couple of students decide to shove passers by or have a play fight, it is much much worse)

I remember how busy school corridors are. I also remember being pushed down the stairs at 6m pregnant by a boy who was never expelled and whom I was expected to keep teaching.

I felt more scared then than I do going into a school with very low cases of coronavirus in the country.

And my current job still involves me visiting schools regularly yet its only the safety of teachers that is causing concern on here, not non teachers like social workers, psychologists, speech therapists etc who visit regularly. It might not be clear what is going to happen but at least you have a better idea than we do from our employers/managers.

Yonbonniebanks that's awful. Your employer has a duty of care and certainly seemed to have failed you in that. You should have been protected and you have been let down and placed in a terrible and vulnerable position .

But teachers did not do that to you. Your employer did.

All the concerns I have raised and questions I have asked about procedures on our return I ask on behalf of everyone who works in schools in every job and in every circumstance.

But we know your opinion of teachers. We are sunbathing , bored doing nothing during remote learning,work avoiding, £36000 disdaining reporter appalled.

Sigh - did I miss anything from the your usual list?

That should have been a police matter, that sounds awful.
If we make schools safer for teachers it will also be safer for other adults working in the schools.

@trumpisaflump. It is period change time I am referring to which is, as someone described, like a football scrum! No malice meant from the pupils, that is just the way it is. I am not particularly tall so usually do have a rucksack in my face accompanied by a ‘sorry miss’.
@lidlfix - I often browse these pages but felt I had to put my view forward on this as I feel quite strongly that teachers will be the ones who are held accountable if schools do not return full time in August. The SG must take some responsibility.
I am keen to get back to school as soon as possible as it will benefit all, from pupils who have not engaged in any education for the last 4 months to those working towards their national exams. I am also thoroughly fed up working from my kitchen. I didn’t go into education not to work with young people. My only children are desperate to get back to school. However, it needs to be well planned and clear protocols need to be in place to ensure the safety of all as much as possible.

I was a trainee teacher at the time, that was the last straw that made me decide it wasn't the career for me. In addition to this, I'd seen teachers watching porn, teachers keeping alcohol in their drawer, and teachers last in first out every day. This was at several placement schools, including high league table positioned schools.

Regarding my 'list' - this is from what family and friend teachers have told me themselves - are they exaggerating what they have been doing? Did I exaggerate the teachers I worked beside?

I'm sure there are many hard working teachers but I've worked a helluva lot harder in all my jobs since teaching, with less pay, holidays and benefits.

I'm as worried about health and safety as anyone, and have highlighted these concerns to my manager but I'm not risking other people's jobs by complaining or refusing to go to work.

I might be more accepting of blended learning as a means to keep teachers (and pupils) safe if it was actually decent blended learning instead of half an hour a day (and that's not per subject that was everything). but hey, teachers will still get a pay rise! (yes I know it said England but NS will copy and knowing her try to do a bit better, lucky youse)

Meanwhile the rest of us fear compulsory/voluntary redundancies. My employer has just announced office closures today so who knows what will come next.

Poverty or work in a secure job with low covid cases....hmm....let me think about that one.....

I genuinely don't know what's for the best here. I've been very vocally in favour of pupils going back full time, but this call centre thing is a clear reminder of how quickly the virus can spread. Yes, the numbers are low, but someone in the call centre got it, and consequently 19 people (at the moment) have Covid-19.
I don't know if seniors wearing masks would be an idea, (I'd personally rather not wear one as I think it's harder to build relationships when people can't see your face, but it's another option.) Perspex screens on teachers' desks would be another option, but I don't know how much sound they'd let through, and I'd imagine they're too expensive (for schools, but apparently not other council facilities). Random testing throws up more issues, and logistically would be very tricky, especially in primaries. And hand washing? I've no idea how we could arrange 1200 pupils hand washing 5 times a day with the meagre toilet facilities we have. Very few rooms have sinks in secondary schools.

I'm England not Scotland but my daughters secondary have advised they will designate different areas of the school to certain years.

Where possible teachers will move classrooms not children and then if they do need to move they will only be encountering their year group not the whole school. With nearly 2k pupils I am not sure how they are staggering lunch times though!

I'm England not Scotland but my daughters secondary have advised they will designate different areas of the school to certain years.

Where possible teachers will move classrooms not children and then if they do need to move they will only be encountering their year group not the whole school. With nearly 2k pupils I am not sure how they are staggering lunch times though!

We've just had a pay rise though, this April was the last year of three 3% pay increases - having gone down over 30% since pay freezes kicked in. I'm amazed you missed that!

Sorry that should say gone down over 20%

I saw awful teachers and deplorable practice on placement too. It made me determined I would never be like that. As I already had DC when I was training I knew not only the sort of teacher I wanted to be but what I hoped for for them in their learning.

It didn't leave me with a warped view of the profession.

What happened to you on your placement was awful and as others have said a police matter, a matter where your uni should have intervened and supported you.

Your friends and family tell you accounts of teaching. Sadly they sound very negative maybe I am just lucky?

Are there no moments of triumph where a pupil finally got something, of belly laughs with the whole class, of moments of heartbreaking empathy or sheer brilliance of pupils?

If not, why not?

"I was a trainee teacher at the time, that was the last straw that made me decide it wasn't the career for me. In addition to this, I'd seen teachers watching porn, teachers keeping alcohol in their drawer, and teachers last in first out every day. This was at several placement schools, including high league table positioned schools."

I call you out on that. Really - teachers watching porn? Presumably on school equipment. I think not. You come across as a failed NQT who couldn't hack it.

Well the alcohol part sounds like schools I knew in the 80s, but no one could have been "watching" porn back then! It sounds like a failing school with pupil behaviour and staff mental health at an all time low.

@SamSeabornforPresident,
Yes, the numbers are low, but someone in the call centre got it, and consequently 19 people (at the moment) have Covid-19."
Indeed, but what is the alternative exactly? Shutting schools for good? No more exams? Unemployment up to 20-30% or more? Women's rights going back decades?
These are not fictitious scenarios, but very real possibilities as the virus, whatever the SG seems to believe, is not going anywhere (unless it decides of its own volition to disappear, but we have no say on this). A vaccine may or may not materialize; what do we do until then?
The harms must not outweigh the benefits.

Indeed, but what is the alternative exactly? Shutting schools for good? No more exams? Unemployment up to 20-30%

Schools need to be back , this doesn’t bear thinking about

Same thoughts here AAT65. Teachers watching porn and with a student teacher around. 🤔

What about isolating pupils and teachers?

I am currently stocking my freezer and making sure I have enough dry goods to last me at least a week. I think it’s near on inevitable that I’ll develop symptoms between August and December.

I know the vast majority of teachers drag themselves in unless they really can’t get out of bed. There’s no supply.

I also know how common it is for poorly children to be sent in.

One of the conditions of a full time return will be unplanned extended absences. I genuinely do believe blended learning would be more manageable that way.