Scottish Exam Results 2020

[Lidlfix]

After hearing DD3's deep sigh and worried voice observe "this time in four weeks..." I feel it's acceptable to begin the 2020 thread.

Over the years Scotsnet regulars and visitors have given great support, advice and even (tales of blissfully unaware snoring DC) light hearted relief to each other over the years.

This year has been particularly fearful for us and our DC and I know how much I have appreciated results threads in previous years. As there are plenty of threads with political discussions and chances for posters to express concerns about what politicians/councils/ schools/ teachers are or aren't doing, can I gently ask that we keep this to topic?

I have DD3 waiting on 1 AH and 2 Highers for a conditional offer and DD4 waiting on 5 Highers - results depending she'd like to apply for Law for the end of S6.

@Puffalicious

I absolutely agree that the way the SQA has gone about it is unfair. They should have considered evidence from individual students at the award stage rather than just downgrading due to a school's previous performance.

I think it is clear from the figures though that some teachers have been far too optimistic in their predictions. There is no way that 85% of the poorest pupils would have passed at higher when the number was 65% last year.

There also has to be fairness to students who have say exams in the past and will do in the future and will be applying for the dame university places and jobs. You cannot have a situation where candidates from 2020 have a set of grades that they would never have achieved in a normal year.

It just seems that as long as the numbers balance it doesn't matter if the individual students have the correct results. This could have been handled so much better imo.

Grades will go up just as soon as Sturgeon calculates the effect a load of pissed off students and parents will have on next years election.

Devil is in the detail.

Friends dd had 8 x As for NAT5s 2 years ago. Missed prelims and lots of study time for highers due to glandular fever flooring her for months so marks lower than expected and just missed out on uni, S6 did a crash Spanish H, really worked hard, aced prelim with 94%. Needed a B, got a C and has now been rejected for uni course. Too many stories like this coming out, poor kids.

What a tough day for so many pupils and parents across Scotland. My DC was estimated by school AAB for her AH but given AAC which means Uni conditional offer withdrawn. Will try to appeal but not holding out hope.

Uni course my DC has as 'Firm' choice seems to give out double the number of offers in comparison to the number of places in the end. Not sure how that works but presume part of exam boards moderation is to ensure Unis can cope with numbers too.

My DC is sad but seems ok, they'll end up at another Uni and probably quickly they will adjust - but has learnt a bitter life lesson. I hope I am wrong but I honestly believe that some young people's mental health will be significantly damaged by this year's process.

How awful to get 94% in your prelim and be given a C! How does that even happen?!

The more I think about this, the more I think that unless they had identified a specific anomaly and investigated, e.g. Whole school or class well above where it should have been, or actually employed markers to look at all evidence, then they should have gone with what was submitted and taken the hit that this year was very different from those before and after.

I know this would have implications for higher education etc though.

I mean, what are they going to do if half of the downgrades appeal and have evidence to support the grade submitted? If they award the upgrade as they should, then the figures are still going to be statistically odd.

Shit show that hasn't been thought through properly imo.

the effect a load of pissed off students and parents will have on next years election

Especially as all those pissed off S5 and S6 students will be old enough to vote in May.

Wax I've been thinking the same thing, if there's the evidence for the appeals how can they not award it? The PPs with such awful stories above must be so upset: these are kids' lives. A C award after 94% in the prelim is unbelievable.

For those questioning the 85% pass prediction against the 65% last year, here's an extract from an article today:

'maybe, teachers know their pupils and what they are genuinely capable of, and what really needs to be reconsidered here is the draconian and unfair approach to assigning grades to pupils who work hard for nine months only to have their futures decided on one day, in an exam hall, under extreme stress. Extreme stress that affluent pupils are, by the very nature of their upbringing and their privilege, more adept to cope with.'

Thoughts?

As I said, I've no doubt that there might have been a small bit of jiggery pokery going on, but that could have been easily identified before issuing results. The main difference in award values predicted is likely to be borderline cases or those ones where someone is capable of a level but might have missed that on the day. Which is sort of what you are saying, sqa would generally have these as fails but they don't represent what a pupil is capable of. To take that into account in general means a complete overhaul in education measuring and a completely different role for sqa. Not saying it shouldn't be done or wouldn't be valuable, just that it's a major thing and can't see it happening in the short or medium term.

And I don't work in education so probably missing something major :)

You are totally right, it would mean a major re-set of the entire education system. I don't see it happening either, but we need it. I'm sick of squeezing kids through a ridiculously straightforward Nat 4 course but then they get to the AVU part and it's nigh on impossible for Nat 4 level kids without major step by step intervention by teachers (which we shouldn't be doing). Then at Nat 5 and H level teaching to a very narrow exam where kids need to show everything they know in a ridiculously short time. This is not learning for life and creating rounded individuals.

Curriculum for Excrement is a load of shite but is a political football that needs to succeed no matter what in the eyes of the SNP. I've been teaching 25 years and education is significantly poorer year on year, but that's another thread.

have those who lost out on university places had a look at clearing yet? There are more courses and places available than in previous years but there is obviously going to be more demand than in previous years too.

DS3 didnt get his Nat4 Maths as the Maths dept failed to organise a resit of the last unit because his teacher was off with suspected Covid.
His supposedly "good" school repeatedly fails kids who struggle with anything. Its potluck whether you get one of the teachers who's on top of things or not.
I agree, the curriculum for excellence is far from excellent.
That's two out of my three not managed 5 Nat5s at A-C, and we're a family who values education and made sure they went to a decent school.
Lack of effective communication is a theme, and, I think a lack of expectation of teenage boys.
Some of the blame is down to me for not spotting or investigating issues sooner and sometimes going down dead ends but Im not an educational psychologist!
I've noticed a distinct lack of result announcements on Facebook this year (thank goodness, not something I approved of) but did spot an aquaintance having a rant on the SQA page as her daughter, a very focussed clever girl aiming for medicine, did not achieve expected results (same school as your boys Wax).

@Lizzosflute can you work out how they chose the 2/3 to downgrade? Is it based on any evidence in the individual's work? Or do you think it's totally arbitrary? Or anything that binds the third who didn't get downgraded together? Is it based on their position in the ranking?

None of my friends DC got what they were expecting.

Re clearing, both boys from yesterday now sorted. One has now chosen a course vastly different from what he'd applied for and now declares it's exactly what he wants to do! :) He's been accepted and looking forward to it.

The other had an unconditional offer as 2nd choice but the course really wasn't his ideal. He's managed to get an offer on a course the same as the one he lost at another uni. He's chuffed with it but is still appealing and will decide once that is complete to see if he can then meet his condition for 1st choice uni.

So yes, well worth getting on to clearing

Yes a more targeted approach would be fairer @waxonfeckoff. I do think a lot of organisations are very reactionary in their actions instead of putting in a bit more forethought but I think this costs time and money which the powers that be do not want to spend or in this case just isn’t there ( I reckon SQA are seeing at how much they can get away with, exempt from FOI, I can’t believe that’s allowed!)
Unfortunately at my dd school the head of year said SQA told the teachers that candidates did not need to finish projects etc. as it would not be looked at or considered. However to be fair, a few teachers at our school did push the kids to get projects and folios finished.
My dd1 at university tutors school kids who attend private school and her tutees were sitting second prelims, finishing projects and writing additional essays so gathering as much evidence as possible.
So, why could private school teachers and management see this possibility but not the state employed teachers? Are local authorities or unions responsible?
Yes this is a bitter life lesson as a pp said. Trying to see the good in this I hope our young people come out of this stronger and a more resilient.

@puffalicious

I absolutely agree that the current system of exams and regurgitation is not for for purpose. However, teachers were not being asked to assess pupils under a fantasy new system, they were told to give a realistic prediction of what their pupils would have got of exams had gone ahead.

Unfortunately, it appears many teachers have given totally unrealistic predictions which has led to the SQA (wrongly) automatically downgrading many deserving students.

No, there was no need for the sqa to downgrade deserving pupils, they could have done the job better by investigating anomalies before just applying a deduction across the board.

I appreciate that these were unprecedented times and there were time constraints, but I don't think the approach was correct.

Just because the numbers match roughly overall, doesn't mean that the results are correct for each pupil.

@Puffalicious I would agree with your sentiments on the curriculum for excellence and the secondary school structure.

My dh did A-levels and I sat Scottish highers and I think there are pros and cons with both but if I had a choice overall I think A-levels and sixth for colleges are better.

Obviously not this year with social distancing but I always thought going in to get results where support system of careers and pse teachers on hand was better. Even rural Scotland where I live can work around this.
It must be extremely hard to balance the needs of S1/2/3/4 and the S5/6 in secondary schools and perhaps a more targeted education for 16+ students would be beneficial all round.
With the higher and advanced higher courses teaching them material for less than 1year, it was very high pressurised for my children. This hot housing doesn’t bring out the best in our young people and I feel does not give them the best environment within which to show off their full knowledge and potential. The two year course would be much better for candidates to flex their muscles.
I don’t think anything in England would be adopted here no matter what but it would be nice to be proved wrong.

I just wanted to add that 20 odd years ago when I went to my first pure science lecture I sat next to a girl who said she didn’t want to be on this course, had applied for veterinary medicine but didn’t get in but had achieved good a-level results (was allowed to enter 2 year if she had wanted) and her aim was to get a place on the vet course. It was a gamble but she was straight with her director of studies and appeared very confident; when inevitably someone dropped out she was interviewed and got a place. Hard work catching up in the first few months but she qualified.

Well, after much discussion my daughter has been rejected by her uni as not having the grades. She has applied through clearing for the same course as it is only one of two in Scotland. To really rub salt into the wounds she has just found out that a girl in her class who was predicted to fail half her subjects has been awarded the same grades as her. Naturally, she's delighted she has come out of the whole thing so well, while my daughter feels like her life is in ruins. My daughter has NEVER failed to make her predicted grade or above, but hey, as long is the numbers average out and next years students don't feel like things are unfair, what does it matter? We're appealing this fucking shit show.

I'm really sorry to hear that Krusty. Definitely worth asking to appeal.

The school rang her yesterday to APOLOGISE and urge her to appeal. The first time they have ever done so. What a joke. She is crying her eyes out, has no job as the cafe she worked in didn't survive Covid and nothing to look forward to. I don't know what to say to her.

Krusty if they are urging her to appeal they must feel they have a strong case (ie they have good evidence for a higher grade) so please give it a shot. What is the uni saying about her getting in it the grade is changed?