A thread for people who admire and like Nicola Sturgeon

[upstar]

Just what it says really. I think she's done a great job. She has made mistakes and owned them. She has taken advice and is willing to change policy where necessary. I think she's done pretty well and our virus figures are improving daily. So a thread for some positive things!

What caused the problem, as I understand, was that the hospitals were given a date, after which testing would have to be undertaken before the elderly in hospital could be moved. Therefore they all rushed to get everyone out before that date so they could avoid the testing.

What they could have done was start testing people and releasing them as soon as they could, balancing off the need for covid beds as they went. Instead they rushed, chucked them under the bus and had staff hanging about with fuck all to do for weeks on end.

Obviously no-one had a crystal ball to see what the future would hold, but they did have statistical modelling that would have given an idea of when the peak was likely to come and the access to beds likely to be required.

There were many other decisions that could have been taken. If they'd had access to a multi million pound empty hospital that they could have used for covid or moved all the "bed blocking" patients to, that would have been helpful or even the empty old sick kids if they'd been able to open the new one but no, yet another fuck up contributed to the problem.

All good points @WaxOnFeckOff. There has been a lot of terrible decision making and poor management during the crisis, which unfortunately has cost a lot of lives. It might go some way towards explaining the current over-cautious policies as well, looking for some kind of redemption.

What annoys me is Sturgeon speaking of herself as Scotland. If anyone else went around telling people they were a country they would be certified. Criticize the SNP and you'll be told you shouldn't criticize Scotland.

@Arkadia that's exactly how I feel. Dissent is not tolerated in Scotland.

I think people think a police state is when the police are in control but it's more about lack of freedom of speech, risk of being reported by your neighbours for things you've done or not done or might be thinking about doing, trying to rewrite history, telling you what you can think and that what you see with your own eyes isn't what you've seen, control of the population, removal of civil liberties, controlling what and how children are educated to fit with your own beliefs etc etc.

Now, if we cast our eye over what is happening at the moment and things such as the key person issue etc then how are we feeling?

I might indeed be paranoid, but I find the desire to control the population sinister tbh

It's Orwellian. With a hint of Calvinist desire for No Fun.

It's the downright lying which does my head in. Swinney stands up - as the deputy first minister - and does an interview saying that blended learning (part time school) will be happening for the whole of next year. Radio silence from Sturgeon. Then there's a massive fuss and she says a few days later that we all misunderstood and that was never what they meant. It was always Plan B. Sorry Nicola, we're not that stupid.

Also she has been very quiet about the numpties on the Border yesterday despite strong condemnation from other SNP members like Humza Yousaf .

Education has been going down the pan in Scotland for years. Ditto the NHS. She does not allow healthy debate or criticism within her party - Nicola's way or the highway.

Not much to be admired there.

Well done girls, another pile on for anyone who puts up a positive SNP or Nicola post. None of you have one good thing to say and not quite sure why you decided to post here! So vitriolic.. you've all outed yourselves as negative naysayers in the most repulsive way. I'm sure you will now ask @mumsnettowers to suspend me but if it brings to the fore the bullying that anyone who supports the elected Scottish Government endures on here all the better.

Bullying? Get a grip.

If you want to fangirl about Nicola Sturgeon, you are in the wrong place. As in the real world, she's a divisive figure. I'm sure there are specific forums where they do nothing but sing the praises of the Glorious Leader all day. Maybe you'd be better off there?

And one other thing - I'm not a "girl".

@MumofHunter

TheMurk the care homes strategy was the same across the four countries of the U.K. Don't recall seeing any leaders being 'mauled for it'.

Its a hell of a lot worse in Scotland so yes, the criticism is well deserved, and I agree the tears were for show.

Upstar, well said!

I stopped reading your thread on Friday as it was clear that the Nicola-haters had decided to ignore the purpose of your OP and have the thread for themselves. They're a bit like people who go on to threads asking for advice on which expensive handbag to buy, to pour scorn on people who want to buy expensive handbags.. it's really none of their business and the OP doesn't want to debate why they should or shouldn't buy one, but there they all, making it all about them, because their opinions matter more.

If I really didn't like NS, I might have had a quick look at your OP to see what the chat was, but I certainly wouldn't have posted. Why? Because my opinion would have been completely irrelevant! Plus, who's got time to go commenting on posts that do not seek debate but with which one doesn't agree? Not I.

Anyway. I still like NS 😊

I wasn't aware there were threads you weren't allowed to post on if you disagree.

Although your approach confirms the lack of tolerance of dissent or questioning of the SNP.

Also not a girl.

@cdtaylornats

What annoys me is Sturgeon speaking of herself as Scotland. If anyone else went around telling people they were a country they would be certified. Criticize the SNP and you'll be told you shouldn't criticize Scotland.

yes absolutely.

I had to change my username on MN (and other online forums) due to bullying from cybernats, including in private messages, and having my previous threads and posts doxxed.

I change my usernames very regularly though so identifying me in RL (as was threatened) and contacting my employer (as was threatened) will be near impossible.

There are nationalist supporters on here who support NS and independence no matter what. They won't listen to, or read, anything that contradicts their blinkered views.

There have been posts that are abusive and even racist, but they throw back that we are the racists ones, because as you say we are not criticising NS or the SNP, we are criticising Scotland.

Eg Devi tweeting about us all being "anti Scottish" then claiming she made a mistake, aye sure hen, you're meant to be smart and you expect us to think you can't write a tweet properly?

@SockYarn

Bullying? Get a grip.

If you want to fangirl about Nicola Sturgeon, you are in the wrong place. As in the real world, she's a divisive figure. I'm sure there are specific forums where they do nothing but sing the praises of the Glorious Leader all day. Maybe you'd be better off there?

And one other thing - I'm not a "girl".

Are you saying that if someone doesn't agree with your viewpoint, they should never post on Mumsnet and go and post somewhere else where you might not come across it? Even if they're not looking for a debate? Really?

@SockYarn

Bullying? Get a grip.

If you want to fangirl about Nicola Sturgeon, you are in the wrong place. As in the real world, she's a divisive figure. I'm sure there are specific forums where they do nothing but sing the praises of the Glorious Leader all day. Maybe you'd be better off there?

And one other thing - I'm not a "girl".

I've been on mn 16 years and I like NS and I couldn't care less who agrees with me. If you or anyone else thinks I should go find another site, you can do one.

@SockYarn

It's the downright lying which does my head in. Swinney stands up - as the deputy first minister - and does an interview saying that blended learning (part time school) will be happening for the whole of next year. Radio silence from Sturgeon. Then there's a massive fuss and she says a few days later that we all misunderstood and that was never what they meant. It was always Plan B. Sorry Nicola, we're not that stupid.

Also she has been very quiet about the numpties on the Border yesterday despite strong condemnation from other SNP members like Humza Yousaf .

Education has been going down the pan in Scotland for years. Ditto the NHS. She does not allow healthy debate or criticism within her party - Nicola's way or the highway.

Not much to be admired there.

The move towards vocational education is not going well either.

Foundation Apprenticeships (FAs) get a lot of press, but what's not being reported is that they can't get enough employers to offer placements. Meaning the students are having their FA days cancelled, or spending the majority of their FA just doing coursework instead of work experience. Many FAs are dropping out.

Modern Apprentices (MAs) are losing their apprenticeships left right and centre due to this pandemic yet we are getting promised extra support for 16-25yos. aye right. Where are the jobs going to be?

Same old promises, nothing original, if it didn't work before, it won't work now.

@ssd thank you. I have been a very long time lurker but joined to post during lockdown! I love mumsnet I've learned so much here over the years. And I also like NS.
I'm not entirely sure why that annoys people so much.

@YonBonnieBanks can you actually tell me what you think apprentices should be doing during a pandemic???!!!! Strangely enough furlough is still ongoing till October and then people will be struggling to get actual jobs, apprenticeships may not exactly be possible!!!! Not sure it's in the power of any government to manage that one. At least the apprentices have something at the moment. There will need to be a massive job creation scheme of some kind.
Incidentally in my experience apprenticeships have produced amazing committed staff members and it's a great way for rural young folk to stay in their communities.

I just don't care what people here think. I've got my own opinion on why some people don't like her. But it's each to their own, like everything else. When posters start using words like fangirl, I mentally cringe for them. It just makes them sound like a right tit.

[quote upstar]@YonBonnieBanks can you actually tell me what you think apprentices should be doing during a pandemic???!!!! Strangely enough furlough is still ongoing till October and then people will be struggling to get actual jobs, apprenticeships may not exactly be possible!!!! Not sure it's in the power of any government to manage that one. At least the apprentices have something at the moment. There will need to be a massive job creation scheme of some kind.
Incidentally in my experience apprenticeships have produced amazing committed staff members and it's a great way for rural young folk to stay in their communities. [/quote]
Read my thread properly!

I'm not criticising the apprentices.

I'm saying they are losing their apprenticeships because the employers are shutting and/or making staff redundant. Clearly you don't know much about apprenticeships, how they are delivered and funded.

Anyone in the Scottish Training Federation, the CITB, the FSB will tell you apprenticeships are being affected and they are getting lots of grants to help them keep apprentices on but it isn't enough and its a devolved issue so its a matter for the Scottish Government. They cannot promise to help young people get jobs if the jobs aren't there!

Yes handbags and elected leaders are pretty much the same. If you can't be nice, say nothing at all.

@YonBonnieBanks well if Holyrood are giving grants to employers that's a really positive thing.... isn't it? What can the Scottish Government do to keep companies afloat so the apprenticeships survive? Have they been granted any flexibility in the budgets for this?

as someone who works for Skills Development Scotland, who fund apprenticeships in Scotland, it is 100% true that a lot of apprentices are losing their jobs and their providers have had to be bailed out.

(btw apprenticeships are not provided by just the employer. the employer provides the job, the provider provides the qualification part - so you can have one or both affected by the pandemic as they are both businesses. Either way the apprentice loses out)

Its also true that foundation apprenticeships have not been as successful as expected. Not enough placements available, not enough employers interested, and they ask for high grades to do it meaning those who would most benefit from an FA do not benefit.

Apprenticeships are devolved So not a westminster issue.

Funding employers wont help. You need to fund the training provider too. Apprenticeships are not just employer delivered.

I like her, she is articulate, straight to the point, answers your questions, and very confident. I wish we could attach my part of the country on to Scotland, as much as I love England, I have no confidence what so ever in Boris.