Reasons NOT to move to Scotland

[AprilHeather]

Hello all, have come across Scotsnet from some google searches - didn’t know it existed! And after some advice please. DH to be and I have considered moving out of England for a while and never taken the plunge. We originally looked at Denmark a few years ago but couldn’t afford at the time. Now my DS’s (11 and 13) are worried about the language, especially with getting behind at school and making friends. Scotland was our next choice. We like the scenery the outdoors and the more left leaning politics. We wanted to move to Kintyre or Arran, possibly Ayr, though we would like to be more remote really. My mum would be moving up with us too and we will build her a granny flat. I am an early career academic so I will be keeping my job at my institution in England (8 hour drive from Kintyre) and stay over at my Dads when I need to. Majority of the week and all weekends and holidays I will be in Scotland with my boys, OH and Mum. I’d like reasons NOT to come to Scotland - especially the areas I mention. The cold hard reality please! It’s so easy to see the life we want (Remote, peaceful, outdoor walks and not too many people to get to know, a small community) versus the reality of the life we will have. Also, can someone please please point out where I can go online to work out what year groups my sons would be in as my eldest would start/have started study for Nat 5s if he was in Scotland I believe? I can’t work it out! Thanks all xx

I left, but not to move back down south. We moved back to NI and we don’t regret it for a second. The education and opportunities within school that my DC have here is at better than what they could have had even in private school in Scotland. Instead of it costing me £15K per child it costs me approx £600 total for 2 children at secondary, and zero at primary. (And of that £600 - only £280 is compulsory - the rest is voluntary contribution.)

The change in my DC over the course of the last year has been incredible. They have massively benefited from the better education, but also from living somewhere where people are actually friendly, welcoming and inclusive.

There are all sorts of places in Scotland as in most areas. I’m English and when we moved out of the city we looked for an area that had a reasonable number of “incomers” and also “returners”. I’ve had almost no anti-English sentiment since moving here. Other areas will be very different of course.

I grew up in rural England where you were an outsider for the first 40 years at least. I think there is more anti-English sentiment in Scotland than vice-versa but it is not that hard to find friendly places.

Yes FruitPastille you don't need any qualifications to be employed as a teacher in England. Some have never written a lesson plan before never mind have a degree in the subject they 're paid to teach.
Of course this us never told to parents or discussed in the Tory controlled press!

That isn't what i am saying at all. Of course teachers write lesson plans and usually have a degree in the subject they are teaching but i have seen some shocking teaching from teachers who don't have a degree in the subject they are teaching, or whose knowledge is not particularly great on the subject that they have a degree in!

This is such a negative thread, lol.

Well, the thread title did ask for that!

I love where I live and could list lots of positives. My neighbourhood is very friendly indeed, for a start. But I recognise some of the bad points mentioned, even though I don't experience them all.

Since you asked for negatives, for me (live in a rural area, though not too remote) it's

• the cold, and the lack of a real summer. Or even very distinct seasons. You get some really hot days in summer, some snowy/icy spells in winter, but most of the time it's grey and about 10 degrees.
• the dark, especially in December/January
• the tax
• drinking culture. And sugar culture - people eat a lot of crap here, and wash it down with more sugar. I notice the difference when I visit England. My DC's school try to counteract this a bit with lots of stuff around healthy living but they're pushing against the prevailing culture.

We moved to the west coast of scotland 12-13 years ago and live in ayrshire. Overall I love it here, but we moved here when the kids were tiny and live somewhere big enough to have a large incomer population -working at the hospitals, airport, university/college etc- which is where we made most of our friends. A lot of the school-gate mums etc have lived here all their lives and have big extended families, so don't really 'need' new friends. I think this would be a lot more significant in a smaller town, and also much harder to make friends if your kids are secondary school age when you move.

Kids football seems to be taken veerry seriously here- a lot of boys seem to be signed up to the pro clubs youth teams before they are out of primary school, and the 'good' community teams can be hard to get into. If football is a big part of your boys' lives I really wouldn't move somewhere where there is only one club- if they don't get in or don't get on with the coach they'll be a bit stuck.

I'd also agree with those above that say that remote living for teens tends to lead to more alcohol/drugs and risky driving- certainly was an issue even when I was young and I didn't grow up anywhere particularly remote; the stories I've heard from friends who did are scary.

In winter the two most common announcements on the local travel news seem to be 'the ardossan to brodick (arran) ferry is cancelled' and 'the rest and be thankful is blocked due to landslide' so you'd really have to take that into consideration re commuting.

Ayrshire absolutely has its problems and some very rough areas, but also some lovely areas and a good quality of life if you like the outdoors but with Glasgow 45 minutes away.

I personally wouldn't chose to move somewhere where my teens can't walk or bus to see friends/school/beach/swimming pool/cinema etc - I don't want to become a taxi service!! Good luck whatever you decide.

The sectarianism is still an issue in the west. I can’t believe in this day and age that Catholics and Protestants are educated separately from primary school upwards.

OP, I know very little about Scotland, but as a senior academic, I think you should consider your career very carefully before you make this move. Yes, a lot of academics commute — I commuted internationally for years myself — but an eight or ten hour drive twice a week in poor conditions doesn’t sound sustainable to me, especially as your administrative responsibilities inevitably grow as you become more senior.

Sorry, posted too soon — and as you will have to spend more days a week on campus, for teaching and meetings. You may be able to pack your teaching into a couple of busy days, but university/faculty committees aren’t so amenable.

Commuting eight hours from the Kintyre Peninsula eh?

You might have taken in the distance but not the road. A lot of those roads are narrow and twisty for miles and miles and miles and miles. They take a long time to drive around and can be exhausting. 8 hours soon becomes 10. I know, I have travelled the remotest parts of Scotland all my life. Some lucky days it will be an 8 hour drive...most times it will be much much longer, taking into account traffic, weather conditions, diversions and the twisty loooooong road. You will spend your entire weekend getting there and back and have fuck all patience for your family.

Personally I think it’s a terrible idea. The novelty of that commute will wear off fast.

Think again.

Yes the commuting alone sounds like madness.

@FruitPastillesaregood

For those who left Scotland to move back down South, where did you go and did you feel you'd done the right thing I wonder? (Don't mean to hijack the thread).

Hijack away, it’s good to get lots of perspectives! Thanks everyone for replies and help, sorry for disappearing, I wasn’t getting notifications on thread updates! Lots to think about, some we’d already considered, others we need to do some more research and keep talking.

I didn't move back down south as I had never lived there before.

But I did move South.

I don't regret it. Its given us opportunities we may not have had at home.

Would I go back to Scotland. In a heartbeat.

Although the Scotland described by many on this post is not the Scotland I left.

Has it really changed so much in 15 years?

Today in June it’s grey, damp has just started raining and is about 14 degrees. This is in Central Scotland. I grew up in Ayrshire moved away for uni/work ended up down South/London for a good few years before returning when the DC were little.

I second the concerns about the education system (and I’m a teacher) it seems my DC are getting a second rate education to the one I got, CofE is not fit for purpose really.

There are large pockets of deprivation whenever you go really, third and fourth generation unemployment with high levels of drug and alcohol abuse and dependency on the state.

Scotland is a beautiful country my favourite parts are Fife, the Highlands and Dumfries and Galloway, Arran is lovely but feels like it’s own little community of middle class white English baby boomer retirees.

Honestly if you come to Wales we have higher rainfall, lower temps. west coast of the uk. you see. However, when I see the temps. in London mid summer I am thankful. Ditto in the winter when I see how much colder it is further east I am thankful for lower heating bills.

There are good and bad things wherever you live. I hate midges though my bites always worse than most.

West coast is very wet as mentioned. Come to the east coast instead 😀
We live in rural fife, not too far from Dundee and st.andrews. I think it’s a great location, still rural and quiet but close to Dundee for shops etc and st.andrews for beaches, eating out etc.

Only time I wish I lived in England is when we go on holiday and it’s always cheaper to fly from England and driving to Europe would be quite a hike

I think someone further up suggested South of Scotland. I think that would be a better idea. Still very beautiful. Can be easy to get to the coast but also manageable to get to Edinburgh/Glasgow/Carlisle/Newcastle depending on where you are.

I remember going on holiday to Dornach when we first moved to Glasgow and being surprise it was a 5 hour drive from us. There is a lot of distance to cover in Scotland!

I've been to Kintyre quite a few times both for work and for holidays but I couldn't imagine living there.
Just the thought of getting in the car AGAIN to have to get anywhere would drive me nuts long term. I'm lucky where we live (costal) we can walk to a shop etc. Train into a small city within 30 mins but still have beautiful rural landscape and forest when looking out of the window. You would have none of that in Kintyre. Yes it's beautiful but when it's misty and raining for weeks ok end it's quite oppressive.
Also your kids - you'll be driving them everywhere- some of the roads are quite lethal not the best for cycling!
Best of luck!

We’ve thought a great deal about moving back to Scotland now that all of our children are post school/ uni.

The SNP and the lack of any real political opposition puts us off.
Another referendum looming and the associated uncertainty politically and economically isn’t encouraging.

If we had school age children, we wouldn’t consider returning to Scotland unless we were going down the private route.
Family members who are teachers in Scotland are in despair.
Our children received an excellent education in England, mix of state and private.
Our local NHS services are very good here.
Obviously this varies from area to area.

We do miss the beauty of the landscape, the accents, the culture and the sense of humour, but the country and the national psyche has changed so much (and not for the better in my opinion), I’m not sure it would feel like returning ‘ home’.

We would never have had the same career opportunities had we stayed in Scotland and our quality of life and standard of living has surpassed anything we could have imagined when we left in the 1990s.

It’s been heartening, though to read so many thoughtful and measured responses on the Scotsnet threads recently.
It’s given me some hope that the entire population hasn’t been totally taken in by Nicola Sturgeon and co.

the country and the national psyche has changed so much (and not for the better in my opinion), I’m not sure it would feel like returning ‘ home’

That’s exactly how I feel which is why I’m in turmoil about whether to head back to SE England or not.

We’re going to sit tight and see what happens over the next year.

We’re no fans of the performance of Boris Johnson, so we’re pinning faith in Labour under Keir Starmer as effective Opposition.

The political situation in Scotland would need to change dramatically before we would consider living there full time.
I hope that entrepreneurial Scots will be encouraged to return and invest in the country, but under the current regime, I doubt it.

There certainly could be an effective opposition in Scotland but Labour is so hell-bent on simply attacking the SNP at every turn, instead of building a vision of a better country. Labour voters in Scotland have deserted the party in droves because there's nothing doing except sniping.

There are literally thousands and thousands of voters who aren't SNP supporters but would welcome a proper examination of independence (especially if the findings are bad, nobody is looking for unicorns here). We get nothing like that, not even close.

Some folk gravitate reluctantly towards the SNP, some don't vote. Personally I'm sick of the tribalism, the childishness; I just want some facts, something to assess other than what the SNP tells me. Labour refuses to engage at that level; the Greens are fantasists; Lib-Dems dead. Scottish politics is tedious...but not Westminster, where whatever-that-is is just horrific and abusive.

You wont see any sort of effective opposition on Scotland until the Scots wings of the UK parties wake up and realise that being inexorably bound to the whims of a London based leader totally undermines their credibility to the point whereby they simply can't be taken seriously.

It's been an issue ever since Blair and McConnell, accelerated with the Brown/Alexander house arrest fiasco, and finally made absolutely transparent with Johann Lamont's resignation and bemoaning of the fact that she was nothing more than a branch manager.

Labour's 'Federalism' isn't going to convince anyone after the nonsense of the 'vow' and their subsequent determination to obfuscate the Smith Commission, and then you have the likes of 'cuddly' 'caring' Tory Ruth Davidson standing up and reiterating her support for the 'rape clause' imposed on women by her bosses in Westminster.

There's a total dearth of talent and ability in the unionist parties in Scotland. The same could be said for their Westminster iterations, but it's especially striking north of the border. They have no new ideas, no cogent approach on how to engage with the SNP beyond endlessly harping on about referendums. It simply isn't appealing to the Scots electorate, yet they continue to batter their empty skulls against the brick wall.

Every country benefits from having an effective opposition to the in situ government. Scotland's no different in that respect, except the potential opposition parties don't have a base on which to oppose from with any authority, being that the rug is continually pulled out from under their feet thanks to the overwhelming priorities of their Westminster leadership. With anywhere between 45-50% of the electorate favouring Independence, I'm not sure how you go about gaining any political traction when you have three significant parties squabbling over the remaining 50% and simultaneously offering nothing at all to the electorate who want to dispense with Westminster. Digging their heels in and constantly re-emphasising your pro-union stance is getting them absolutely nowhere.

@MumofHunter just reading a past post as I'm thinking to move to scotland. You've mentioned it rains mug more on the West coast. I'm looking at toon on the east coast or maybe somewhere close to edingbrough on the east coast as I'd like to be walking distance from the coast. I looked at Dunbar but a little put off by the nuclear power station near to it. Maybe that's not something to worry about. I would only be using public transport and would need to get to edingbrugh or Glasgow for days out with kids (home educating). Any tips on good places. I dont mind cold weather but if that's the only real difference then I'd go for the place with less rain :)