Reasons NOT to move to Scotland

[AprilHeather]

Hello all, have come across Scotsnet from some google searches - didn’t know it existed! And after some advice please. DH to be and I have considered moving out of England for a while and never taken the plunge. We originally looked at Denmark a few years ago but couldn’t afford at the time. Now my DS’s (11 and 13) are worried about the language, especially with getting behind at school and making friends. Scotland was our next choice. We like the scenery the outdoors and the more left leaning politics. We wanted to move to Kintyre or Arran, possibly Ayr, though we would like to be more remote really. My mum would be moving up with us too and we will build her a granny flat. I am an early career academic so I will be keeping my job at my institution in England (8 hour drive from Kintyre) and stay over at my Dads when I need to. Majority of the week and all weekends and holidays I will be in Scotland with my boys, OH and Mum. I’d like reasons NOT to come to Scotland - especially the areas I mention. The cold hard reality please! It’s so easy to see the life we want (Remote, peaceful, outdoor walks and not too many people to get to know, a small community) versus the reality of the life we will have. Also, can someone please please point out where I can go online to work out what year groups my sons would be in as my eldest would start/have started study for Nat 5s if he was in Scotland I believe? I can’t work it out! Thanks all xx

Gulpingcoffee Curriculum for Excellence is to blame for the decline in educational standards. It sets out woolly experiences and outcomes that children are meant to achieve without any information on how schools deliver this. As a result, schools are all doing their own thing and it's very subjective as to whether a pupil is at early, first, second level etc. When we had 5-14, at least you could see on paper if a child had achieved that.
Our local high school has plummeted since my kids went there 10 years ago. There are some subjects that can't be taught due to lack of teachers and the behaviour is appalling.
In our primary school we can't get supply teachers for love nor money, so ASN teachers are covering classes which means the pupils who need their help are suffering.
I'm in the NE, so it may be different elsewhere.

The break even point for tax is about £27k, anyone earning above the break-even point is paying more tax.

On tax, a couple of years ago we calculated that as a household we were paying about £900 extra in tax per year compared to the same salaries in England, a not insubstantial amount. And we make nowhere near £150k! The £27k figure mentioned above sounds much more reasonable.

I stand by my comments about alcohol. I know what I see and I know what I grew up with. It’s not just a “lazy stereotype” and minimum pricing is a sticking plaster for a cancer.

Someone I know who is a German National was brought in to teach languages to Primary school kids under Labour in the nineties. Once the SNP got in all the funding was pulled to teach languages in Primary school.

@RaraRachael that was our experience in schools too. Compounded by the council (also in the NE) restricting Nat5 subjects to 6 - including English & Maths. We had to get out - our DC were being failed on a daily basis.

Just to add something else in (and I’d be interested to hear from those who’ve moved from Scotland to England with school age children) the main driver for us moving from SE England to NE Scotland was schools.

The catchments are 1:1 here. In London/SE England you need to competitively apply for a place at the local primary, then the same (I think) when they go up to secondary.

We wanted to avoid a Lord of the Flies esque battle to get the children in a decent school and it’s worked. Did anyone else do this and how’s it working out? Are you happy with the curriculum/EYFS equivalent?

But whilst there are many positives about our move to Scotland and this is the main one, it’s the little negatives* that are eating away at my wish to stay and considering packing it in before our 2yo would go into P1 to return to SE England.

*casual xenophobia, really overstretched services, parochialism, what seems to be a decline in education, fucking Gaelic rammed down our throats, and my unease about the rights of women and the political situation (even though it’s shit in England too).

I'm retired from secondary school teaching but have friends still teaching and they all complain about discipline issues and the needs of many pupils not being met.

Also, I hope this is not the case everywhere but the subject skills of newer teachers in my subject are embarrassingly poor. They get jobs and promoted posts because teaching isn't attracting the best.

I was at queen street station on a Saturday and it was packed after a football match. People were chanting ‘if you hate the fucking English clap your hands!’ and more people were clapping than not. If they weren’t clapping, they were smirking, including the police. Used to get called a feb at school-a fucking English bastard.

And I totally agree with the huge alcohol issue. I grew up with a totally skewed idea of ‘normal drinking’. In Scotland my friends are shocked at how little I drink. In England my friends think I’m borderline alcoholic.

We are English (although lived in the NE of Scotland for 20+years).

My two sons were born and brought up in Aberdeen/Deeside.

I think where we live is more genteel but I am sometimes conscious of my English accent. I haven't encountered a lot of racism - more latent and unspoken really.

I would recommend bringing up children in Scotland but the area must be chosen very carefully. The Aberdeen area is very multinational due to the oil industry and people are more welcoming to incomers.

Schools can vary hugely. Check out the league tables.

My son's school is towards the top of the table but still only offers 6 subjects (including maths and english) for National 5 at age 15/16.

We have got round the system by entering our elder son as an independent candidate through the school (with the help of a language tutor). He then got 7 Nat 5s. The school doesn't advertise this possibility. The tutor for a year was a lot cheaper than moving him to a private school. It's atrocious that more able candidates are still limited to 6 subjects.

He's now studying at Oxbridge so anything is achievable, although he does have a very supportive home background which must certainly help.

Choose your area very wisely and good luck!

Make sure you look at public transport / hospitals etc as can be a bit hit and miss in rural areas for young folk getting out and about.... most towns have decent access to the outdoors especially Aberdeen, Glasgow, Dumfries

Thanks for the replies. We clearly need to do the research on education. My son is extremely bright and I wouldn’t want to let him down by not giving him good educational opportunities.

I’m wondering if maybe the anti-Englishness is more prevalent in certain areas? It’s not something I’ve come across in the area I know best which is Perthshire (we visit several times a year) and even when we have it’s silly joking.

Many English people live in my area and as far as I know they have no problems. With a university and teaching hospital there are people from all over, and many have lived here happily for years and years.

One neighbour moved to Ayrshire for a while and experienced it there. I don't know how prevalent it is though.

There is a bit of anti Englishness and also some people still use offensive, outmoded expressions regarding people from other ethnicities. It was awful around the time of the independence vote. I am not an SNP supporter but would not admit that, due to abuse levelled at No voters. I don't know of any cases when SNP supporters suffered abuse from remainers.
Secondary school teaching must be difficult as a lot of youngsters see no point in continuing in education when they know they will be able to leave school, get a job on the oil rigs, and be earning the same as a teacher. Also due to the oil money, there is a major drug problem, even in small coastal towns.
I wouldn't live in a rural area with teenagers as you will be providing a non-stop taxi service.
Don't expect nice pubs like there are in England. My OP was shocked to find out that I had never been in a pub in my home town. They are still very much a male domain. Men come home from the oil rigs, straight to the pub, get pished and then roll home to their wife and kids at closing time. Sadly a lot of wives are happy to put up with this in exchange for the brand new house, Audi in the drive and holidays in Florida. Huge drinking culture.

If I could afford to move anywhere else I would.

“ I don't know of any cases when SNP supporters suffered abuse from remainers.”

They were chanting no surrender outside polling stations here (ex mining town in the central belt) nevermind the stuff beforehand, so it did happen.

This is such a negative thread, lol.

Scotland is I think great, for many reasons... but it does have slightly different social issues from most of England and they are something worth thinking about before moving.

This thread did get me thinking about if we would return to Scotland since my earlier replies.

Unless a fabulous job opportunity arose (unlikely as pay in my area is generally lower than in most other places I might end up) I think for us Scotland would be strictly second home territory.

Also, I hope this is not the case everywhere but the subject skills of newer teachers in my subject are embarrassingly poor. They get jobs and promoted posts because teaching isn't attracting the best

I don’t this is unique to Scotland.
Many secondary schools in England are staffed by teachers who have poor degrees or aren’t teaching their own subject.
Scottish degrees are better from an academic standpoint in my view too. Or used to be.

I

Rain, cold, wind

Lived in Scotland for about 15 yes, husband half Scottish and his elderly parents are here. There are good and bad points but I do think people aren't as friendly to the English, generalising of course, but I miss the friendliness and warmth of the NW and Yorkshire. Even Kent I thought was better in this regard!

It can be hard being English in a high school in Scotland - and confusing with regards to different names for school years, and exams.

Gulp just to put some perspective - on £33k salary you pay £50 a YEAR more income tax here. I stand corrected and as someone said you will pay £900/£1000 a more income tax on £50k so depends on your situation and if you'll make use of things we don't pay for.
And Wales are in the process of changing to CfE curriculum also due to perceived rounded curriculum / skills for learning, life and work. Def agree look for good schools though as many parents take no responsibility/ councils remove sfl workers etc.

I stand corrected and as someone said you will pay £900/£1000 a more income tax on £50k so depends on your situation and if you'll make use of things we don't pay for.

I am on about £50,000 and pay nearly £1600 a year in extra tax up here. It is quite a significant amount and although I agree with a lot of the things we get in return some have been a complete waste of money.

I'd counter some of the more negative views around school education. My eldest has a good friend who moved into the English system last year from Primary straight into second year of high school (due to different system). The girl who moved is attending a highly ranked state school and is considered to be very near the top of the class in a number of subjects including maths. That said she has still been asking DD1 to help her with her maths remote learning!

What I do prefer about the Scottish system is that it is focussed on learning more than assessment, although some standard testing is now done in primary schools.

For those who left Scotland to move back down South, where did you go and did you feel you'd done the right thing I wonder? (Don't mean to hijack the thread).