Scottish teachers to be balloted about strike action

[ourweeschool]

Feeling strangely worried about this (am a teacher).

I don't know if we have public opinion with us.

Some interesting points and not riled at all wish the Twitter and Facebook armchair experts could be as reasoned.

I entered the profession when McCrone was shiny and fresh out the box with promises of "a teaching profession for the 21st century " . Protected non contact time, reduced admin, Chartered Teacher so progression was possible whilst not having to enter management and leave the classroom.

So teaching in 2019 is not what I signed up for at all. But I love many aspects of the job. Family friendly was not really a consideration for me as I knew my subject area (English) meant substantial amounts of evening and weekend marking. Family friendly for me meant teaching in the same LA where my DDs were pupils so we had the same holidays.

I know the frustration that my NHS friends feel about their workload and how they go beyond for patient care. Wishing they could spend more time with a patient or relative or give support to colleague but workload prohibits it.

Teachers are the same about their pupils, families and colleagues.

We also worry about assaults on us on or pupils from young people not adequately supported due to cutbacks. Would like to try to use books not falling apart or let pupils take books home to use in revision . Many courses rely on ICT and tech woefully outdated.

Strike action, if it happens, for many, will be very little to do with pay.

Public sector pay in general could not continue to stagnate. Economists talk of how bad it for the economy- teachers, nurses, civil servants are car buyers , supermarket shoppers holiday makers too. Less money in less money out.

I don’t agree with a strike- I think 9% pay rise is well beyond what anyone else in public or private sector is getting. Public sector workers are generally paid about 10% more than private sector once you take pension into account. When you also take into account the holidays, teachers seem to me to be doing pretty well (and if they’re not holidays then teachers are really getting paid well above average).

Public sector workers often have totally unrealistic expectations of pay rises. Why should you get paid more every year of your career? What other profession does that happen in? Pretty much everyone’s income has fallen since 2008. Who else is going on strike?

Zsaz - what do you mean "get paid more every year"? Most public sector workers are on the top of their pay scales in about 5/6 years after that only cost of living. Which has been effective pay cuts.

Will say again - not all holidays are paid.

No bonuses, share schemes, company discounts or subsidised Xmas dos for us.

I don't seek approval or sympathy regarding the potential strike. Just sharing my thoughts and personal experiences and offering an explanation of my motivations.

You don't think public sector should strike- that's your view and I respect it. You don't get a ballot paper though .

There used to be a lot of truth in the saying about public sector jobs "shite job in good times, good job in shite times". But in the recent pay freezes it's been shite for all.

zsazsajuju
Public sector TEACHERS are Mose definitely getting 10% more than private sector teachers- it’s the other way around.

Whether you think that we are well paid or not, it is a fact that our earnings are 25% less than they should be compared to our earning power 10 years ago. It is also a fact that teachers in Scotland are earning less than teachers in most other EU countries.

It’s is not just about pay, as others have stated. It’s also about poor behaviour, a hellish workload, lack of resources, lack of support for ASN.

A very serious issue is that some schools cannot get key teaching staff- STEM, CDT, Business etc. A decent pay review and reduction in workload may go some way in attracting and retaining teachers of these subjects. It is already the case that in the capital city, which traditionally attracted lots of teachers, some schools have had to ask parents with a maths background to come in and teach classes. As a parent of a son with a keen interest in science and engineering I am petrified that he is not going to be taught by a subject specialist and we may have to consider going private to ensure he gets the subject specialist teaching he needs, despite this being against my morals.

TYPO- Most definitely not

I saw a very interesting post on FB tonight. As we all know, Swinney's 'offer' is not actually offered until COSLA put it forward.

However, teachers on the top of the pay scale would be £218 worse off in the first year of the new deal (compared to the rejected deal). Although we will be better off in the 2nd and 3rd year it will only be by around £400 (again in comparison to our rejected deal).

That's £400 a year when our pay has fallen 24% in real terms.

Our local council has to save millions again this year and their latest proposal is to increase class sizes in P2 and 3 to 30, whilst cutting PSA staffing to the bone. Apparently for our school of 360, we would be entitled to 2 full time PSAs .

I wish some of these people would spend a day seeing what teachers have to do on a daily basis.

We're apparently losing nursery teachers out of nursery and I reckon PSA's will get slashed too.

We've not had teachers in nurseries for over ten years when they were either reassigned to a primary or given ridiculous remits overseeing EY curriculum for a cluster of nurseries.

It’s not even a straightforward class of 30 for most of us. There are children who ought to be in special schools floundering in these classes of 30, in among children who no English, traumatised children, gifted children and children who just need that wee bit extra help. You only get extra help now if you’re flinging tables around.

We lost nursery teachers about ten years ago too. It is a huge loss.

I agree with PP that sitting at the top of your pay scale is pretty normal across public sector and having a pay scale at all is practically unheard of in private sector. I'm surprised by some answers though - Can any of the teachers on here do some mythbusting? Someone mentioned holidays for example and PP said not all holidays are paid. I didn't realise that. How does that work then?? Any other assumptions teachers would like to clarify?

Not sure about teachers but as an EYP, I get paid for the 39 weeks of a pro rata pay. Then get paid a holiday allowance (depends on length of service in my council. So over 10 years gets you the 5.6 weeks a year.) then it's added together and divided by 12 for a monthly salary.

The SNCT guidance for teachers and music instructors gives a fairly comprehensive explanation pretty similar to Groovee.
Other myths - that it's family friendly. I regularly miss my own DC parent's evenings as I'm other side of the desk in my own school. Bringing work home constantly . Being involved in extra curricular activities (unpaid) which require my input in evenings and weekends (unpaid no time in lieu). Being guilted into (or judged for saying no to) running Easter Revison my HT genuinely couldn't understand why I didn't want to pay for a holiday club session for my 4 DC to work for nothing in school holidays/ would have cost me a fortune to give my services away That it's 9.00 till 3.30- though in fairness it's only the dimmest website warrior that tends to make that claim.

We get paid for 235 days- 195 working days and 40 days annual leave. It is like Grovee said divided by 12.

Any other myths?

I arrive in school 7.45 and leave at 4.30. Since Christmas I've worked till 8 three nights every week at home and all Sunday.

There are 3 autistic children in my class, 2 more with severe learning difficulties, 10 who speak languages other than English at home (2 have little to no English). I have no PSA and this is the easiest class I've had in years. We've got three posts vacant in school and no sign of anyone coming to fill them.

I hate it when people say Oh in my day we had classes of 40 with no classroom assistants - teachers get all those holidays and only work from 9-3. Nurses get lots of public sympathy but teachers don't due to these false impressions of the job.

The reason it was like that back in the day was that there was -
No differentiation of the curriculum. You all opened your book at page x and did the same work regardless of if you found it too hard
No EAL pupils. We had 30 in our school, so 10% of the roll and get 90 minutes EAL teaching time per week
No stupid Curriculum for Excellence.

No interference from parents
No ASN pupils - they were all packed off to a Special School
No behaviour problems - they were excluded

I would really like an improvement in our conditions. We can't recruit staff and those that are anywhere near retirement age are considering this as the only option.

Nurses are low paid with more hours and less pay so yes, they deserve more sympathy.

The attitudes towards ASN pupils really upsets me. I was one. I have several disabilities. If it were not for 'interference from parents', I'd have gone to a 'special' school (I cannot emphasise enough how much I hate that term and it disgusts me that teachers use it instead of ASN school).

Thanks to the 'interference' of my parents, I've been to university 4 times now, about to go back a 5th time, and I'm planning on then doing my PHD.

there were no teaching assistants in any of the schools I attended. I had horrible teachers who did not want to teach me, but I did have some nice teachers too. Should I have gone to a 'special' school to make life easier for my teachers, or stayed in mainstream so that I could have the career and lifestyle I have now?

A £36,000 salary for 265 or whatever it is days, is still a helluva lot more than the majority of scottish workers including me. Careful budgeting etc can spread the money out.

Next week I have 4 days out of 5, where I am out of the house at 7.30 and not home until 8pm at the very earliest. No extra pay. In fact our team are planning to meet with HR to request overtime payments and/or a job regrading. Doubt very much we'll get it. My point being all public sector workers are finding it a bit shit.

DH is in private sector, he's having to cover another branch for the next 6 months, adding a 2 hour commute each way. His pay is good and he does enjoy his job. With Brexit looming, he can't risk a job change or creating a fuss.

It creates a lot of childcare issues for us though.

Every job would like more pay, better conditions etc, why should you be prioritised? Being a teacher doesn't make you any more important than the rest of us. You've picked a bad time to plan strike action.

I’m private sector and have had a 1 per cent pay rise for the last 5 years - if that!

I do support the strike as I think teachers are up against it. But please don’t think low pay is confined to public sector

I certainly don’t believe we are more special than any other public sector worker.

The reason we MUST take action now is because we are facing a recruitment crisis. Few teachers are coming into the profession and pupils are losing out. In the school where I teach, exam level classes are being taught by non subject specialists in STEM subjects which means they are unlikely to perform as they should, jeopardising getting into university. The only way to attract people into teaching is to improve pay, reduce workload and improve conditions. That’s why I voted to reject the latest pay offer and support strike action. If the NHS has no staff and patients were not being treated as no one wanted to nurse then I sure as hell would support them in taking whatever action was needed to force the government to listen.

Nicola Sturgeon said “judge me on education”

I do recognise that there is a recruitment crisis - the local high school head has been posting for teachers on Facebook.

Public and private sector may have similar pay but the public sector still has more stability.

But to get more money, somewhere else has to take the hit - where will that be?

Anyone who believes Nippy Nicola is a fool

Stranger the attitudes towards ASN pupils on this thread have been supportive - the concern being about how frustrated we are by the unreasonable expectations about how much support one person can give at one time when they have multiple pupils with complex needs. SLA numbers have been slashed.

As teaching vacancies remain unfilled all pupils suffer but ASN pupils more than most which is why the current recruitment/retention issue has to be addressed.

We actually value parental input rather than view it as "interfering" as often LA officials only start to listen when parents enter the discussion.

Whether you think that we are well paid or not, it is a fact that our earnings are 25% less than they should be compared to our earning power 10 years ago. It is also a fact that teachers in Scotland are earning less than teachers in most other EU countries
Exactly this. I didn’t go into teaching to become rich but I didn’t expect my pay to slide backwards the more experienced I got.
New graduates don’t look at teaching and say “well at least it’s above average earnings” they look at it and say “I could get paid much more than that in Aldi” and off they go
When your dc has no teacher as they can’t recruit (has happened to me) you start to see the necessity of a change.

Strangerthongs I was using the term Special Schools as that is what they were known as in the past.

As for interference from parents, I certainly did not mean parents who only want the best for their children with ASN. I am talking about the day to day utter crap that parents bombard schools with.

They’re still called Special schools

We don't really have them any more as all ASN pupils go to mainstream schools

There are 10 in Edinburgh.