Scottish teachers to be balloted about strike action

[ourweeschool]

Feeling strangely worried about this (am a teacher).

I don't know if we have public opinion with us.

me? I was for many years, but not for the last 3 years, no. However, we've only had 1% pay rises each year since 2016, and no pay rises at all in the 6 years before that.

so the lack of pay rise, plus performance management, meant people with less time in my organisation and less qualifications than me, are now earning more than me. We have areas in the country where we can't get the staff either.

So a 9% pay rise, with several months annual leave a year, sounds pretty good to me.

performance management was linked to pay, but basically you got no pay rise if you got anything less than an A and there was a cap on how many people per team could get an A, meaning the majority of our staff had no pay rise for all those years.

What do you do stranger?

We're asking for 10% because our pay has dropped 24% in real terms since 2008. Workload and conditions have gone through the roof in that time.

The 9% offer is
a) not really 9%, as it includes the 1% we got paid late in January 2018 (which was our 1% from April 17-April 18), 3% from April 18-April 19 (which we are negotiating on now) and 3% from April 19-April 20, plus the 2% Scot govt that has been offered.
b) and is only for mainscale teachers. One of the problems is that after 6 years we have no progression at all.
c) not an official offer- only COSLA can make a proper offer.

I am hoping the strike will shake Swinney up. The tiny rise I got last year (teacher) was swallowed up by the tax band changes.

I spent a lot of money and time becoming a Chartered Teacher and now find we are no longer to be recognised for our work or financial loss. I got a pay rise as a result but will never earn more.

There is no progression

My school currently has 2 vacancies and, as a small school, this means 2 empty departments (one is Maths).

My Union is not striking but I am 100/% behind those that are.

It's linked to education but not education, so I see teachers, school kids and council staff all the time. Don't want to out myself though and if anyone can guess, don't say as I'm in a dispute with HR re pay and conditions.

Been left in charge of classes when I don't have a BEd or PGCE, been assaulted by a pupil whilst 6 months pregnant and expected by the headteacher and my own manager to keep working with him. So yes, I know teaching is hard but I put up with the exact same shit without the same pay or holidays the rest of you get.

Limited progression here too and our pay grades were changed last year so that one part of our organisation now gets extra pay bands over the rest. Lots of uproar but we've had all our concerns and complaints ignored.

My point is that every public sector role is shit at the moment but teachers still have it better.

Stranger you know that teachers are not paid for all of the holidays? There is paid portion and unpaid portion. If I transferred to a a post in my LA as (for example) an education officer and it was not a term time only post my salary would increase to reflect the unpaid portion.

But tell the schools who can't recruit, the pupils who have cover teachers day in day out, the ITE courses who can't fill places and the clock is ticking it's an increasingly ageing profession how great £36000 is for the job.

You make it seem so great- have you considered applying?

No one is suggesting that teachers are any different than other public sector workers who also deserve a significant pay rise after years of stagnation or 1% pay rises which are below the rate of inflation.

However, as has been stated, one of the biggest problems is that we have a recruitment and retention crisis with hundreds of teaching posts remaining unfilled. Even in the central belt, there are jobs being advertised and readvertised time and time again as there’s no candidates, particularly in the STEM subjects. This is very concerning for the future and a decent pay rise may go some way in attracting more into the profession, along with a serious reduction in workload.

*strangerthings- we do not get months of annual leave. Half of it is school closure for which we are unpaid

This should not be a race to the bottom- other public sector workers should start industrial action too instead of complaining that teachers think they are special. We should all be supporting each other in trying to improve our pay and conditions rather than being divided and griping.

Yes I have actually, but not (yet) been successful. I have family members who are current or retired teachers. The retired ones do some supply and actively encourage the teenagers in our family to apply for teaching. my cousin is now a head teacher so progression fine for her. I also know school secretaries and have friends who again are teachers who have been promoted to principal teachers, acting head teachers etc, so again progression seems fine for them.

Stranger I genuinely don't know what your role in a school could be

It's not about what other people have or haven't- that's for their unions to fight.

my cousin is now a head teacher so progression fine for her. I also know school secretaries and have friends who again are teachers who have been promoted to principal teachers, acting head teachers etc, so again progression seems fine for them.

You misunderstand- a HT post is completely different to a class teacher post. Most PTs in my LA are out of class so again a completely different role.

In England you can be paid more for developing an area of the curriculum, while in Ireland the pay scale goes up for 26 years!

In Scotland a class teacher with 40 years' experience is paid the same as a class teacher with 10 years' experience.

I'm public sector and I also find it hard to support a 10% pay rise when many of my colleagues are having very essential posts deleted and losing jobs /redeployed into lower paid posts/having to do the work of two three or more people to keep vital services going.

It doesn't mean I don't support you in principle but this could turn out to be a massive own goal if it's portrayed as purely about the pay rise. The whole public sector has taken the hit. We should all stand together for equal pay rises for everyone but the way it's set up, we can't. I don't think many seeing that headline 10 percent figure, having their own work distrusted to fine childcare etc as a result of a strike will be very supportive.

I honestly don't know how else you progress things but I'm not sure this is the way.

I'm public sector and am in schools a lot. I manage staff who deliver a service in schools and work mainly with the pastoral care teams and we definitely sympathise with you.
Huge amounts of work being done with fewer resources, far more young people with significant difficulties, especially mental health needs, and competing demands from government.
I would be with you, and wouldn't cross a picket line. However, we haven't had a pay rise in real terms either, and have seriously "stretched" targets to meet too.

I wonder if you work in my sector wee barra

I think you said a lot of what I wanted to say but better.

I suspect not, from what you've said RJ. We're definitely not an essential service, although we'd like to think we are!

I'm in Scotland not England. Every state school in Scotland works with us, so we are a pretty essential, governmental requirement, service that doesn't get the same pay etc that teachers get.

In Scotland a class teacher with 40 years' experience is paid the same as a class teacher with 10 years' experience.

Same here and in other public sector roles. It sucks but you still don't get my sympathy. at least you have a job as do I. My husband's employer has had to let 50 people go at Xmas because of Brexit - that's not going to get you any sympathy either and a strike in March, when Brexit happens, it is affecting everyone and their jobs? Good luck with that

Stranger - I think we are in the same line of work!

Your argument about a class teacher with 10 years experience being paid the same as a class teacher with 40 years experience is not going to get you sympathy - it’s what happens at in all public sector jobs! Youth work, roads, HR, planning, libraries, council IT - once you are at the top of the scale you are at the top of the scale, the only way to get more money is to go into management.

yep I think we are too. I made the mistake?? of changing departments 3 years ago before the new (unequal) pay structure because I wanted new skills and to move upwards, except I now actually earn less than I did before thanks to the stupid new pay structure and I'm effectively told my qualification only matters if I stay in my old role for the remaining 30 odd years of my career. Nice to feel valued eh? Nice to work hard for a qualification that means SFA unless you do the same thing day out day in for the rest of your days.

Yes, I was at the top of my scale and only moved onto a higher scale by becoming a manager. I assume that is the same in most public sector roles.

inequality in pay, it's ironic considering one of the company values..... and not everyone, certainly not me, wants to be a manager, but there's little other choice if we want to move upwards. Yes every public sector role is the same, but you don't see the media etc talking about us whether positive or negative. You don't see John Swinney or his minister for our sector, making us any offers, again whether good or bad.

Still got no sympathy. Try harder.

It is the same with teachers. If they want to earn more, they spend less time with the people they went into the job to work with.
With additional stress!

In the private sector, there are no pay scales. It's all performance related pay rises or promotion to the point of incompetence. There is a bell curve for ratings too so effectively how you perform makes very little difference as only 10% are allowed to be rated at the top rate and get the top increase. If more than that are awarded the top rate then they are downgraded in the name of equalising the ratings. So, if you do your job well, achieve everything that's asked of you and which you get paid for, then you are most likely to get a rating that means something like "achieved" and that means probably a below inflation pay rise - again. year after year, doing everything that is asked of you and getting a pay cut. that's the reality of Performance related Pay and I would guess is what they will be likely to include in any offer. Cue a lot of time wasted formulating measurements, carrying out reviews, completing paperwork and with no discernible benefit for anyone. It won't even weed out shit teachers (which do exist) as they are usually the ones that can talk the appropriate bollocks and give their review paperwork focus and so will be the ones getting the decent ratings. The teachers spending time on their classes will neglect their own paperwork and get the shit ratings. That's why I mentioned performance related pay, then I was at the cinema so didn't get a chance to reply or expand.

Totally support the teachers in this. My DIL is a teacher and have promised to provide financial support throughout any strike to maintain her income. Have offered to go on a picket line outside her school if required - first picket line since miners’ strike in 1984/5

Personally I wouldn't go on strike. Rather than try to get a large pay increase, I'd rather they looked at the conditions staff have to put up with. I was reading an article about staff having to have a "grab bag" by the door of stuff for when they have to evacuated the class due to a disruptive pupil. Nobody should have to do this, but it's getting more and more common.

I don’t support strike action. I am NHS band 6, max salary around 37 k I think, no matter how many years experience I have. I am nowhere near it yet.

I would need to move into Mgt at band 7 to move past that and I love the face to face work, it’s why I do this job. Every day is worthwhile.

It goes without saying that a lot (but not all) of the private sector is better paid. This does come with insecurity though which is only going to increase with the shambles that is Brexit and the further uncertainty caused by the possibility of another Scottish Independence referendum.

In my heart I feel like my job is really important, I literally save lives, what could be more important than that?

but I also appreciate that without a prosperous private sector with well paid employees paying income tax and companies paying corporation tax, the public sector will wither and cease to exist.

So, what am I saying? Do I wish I was paid more, why of course, who doesn’t? Do I think I deserve to be paid more? That is a tricky question, hard to answer, taking into consideration the economic and political backdrop. Do I deserve a pay rise more than any other public sector worker, no I don’t.

I am approaching 50 and am expected to work till 67. As such I have had many friends career change over the years from fairly well paid private sector to much less lucrative public sector roles, because they want meaning in their jobs.

I could earn much more if I moved to the private sector I have skills much in demand. But I really believe in the public sector/nhs and its the right place for me with the values I hold.

This suggests that the public sector has other attractions than just monetary.

I don’t believe in a race to the bottom but I think this is the worst of all times to be taking strike action.

And I know this will not be received well, but I am going to say it anyway. Surely we all know the salary scales in the public sector, they are well publicised. Why go into a career, that you are not happy with the potential earnings? Surely that is part of a decision to follow a certain profession? Assessing whether it will eventually provide the standard of living you desire.

I know quite a few teachers in my friendship group and it has struck me that a significant proportion have gone into it for what they perceive to be lifestyle benefits, that is the holidays and family advantages that come with it. Some have stated this to me. Despite it being pretty well known that it is very hard graft during term and not family friendly for a significant part of the year.

BTW I don’t think there is anything the matter with choosing a career because of perceived flexibility.

This makes me wonder, then if for some (certainly not all) the long working hours of the terms, are not offset by the holidays eventually.

I think teaching is a hard job (not the hardest, but it’s all relative) and you really have to be motivated to do it. Perhaps the drive to do it is hard to maintain over the longer term if the motivations to do the job where not all about the job? Then money comes into it, not unreasonably, ie this would be more bearable if I was paid more.

But would it? There is not going to be a massive pay rise, so those of us doing public sector jobs that are challenging, need to ask ourselves
“ do I want to continue doing this job, at this pay and with these conditions?” It is a straight forward question that at some point we may all need to ask ourselves.

I expect this post will rile many, but I hope it comes across as reasonable and respectful to my public sector colleagues in the teaching profession.