Thoughts on Uni options for a mid performer

[WaxOnFeckOff]

DS2 has gradually got his act together over the last 7/8 months and now does want to apply to Uni, he's interested in History/Modern Studies/Politics/English, has no idea what he wants to do for a job but I've mentioned maybe research type roles in politics and he seemed interested. I think he wants to study something that has some kind of path to a job but he doesn't have the interest or mind for those type of subjects/roles (usually computing/engineering type).

Anyway, now the dilemma. He doesn't have and isn't likely to achieve quite enough for the "top layer" of Uni. He only sat 3 highers and resat his Nat 5 maths in S5 and has ABC at higher A Mods/B English/C Music). He is doing 2 more Highers (History and politics) and AH English this year. He is capable of 2 further As in his highers and who knows in his AH English. He is putting in more effort and enthusiasm than I've ever seen from him. So, best case scenario he has 3 As, a B and C at higher and a pass of some sort in his AH. I think it would be unlikely that he would fail his highers, I think he got an A at Nat 5 in history and obvs he did well in Modern Studies so that would give a good idea of his likely achievement in politics.

Anyway, Edinburgh/Glasgow/Strathclyde etc are likely to be just out of his reach for some type of social science degree as they seem to be looking at AAAA or more. Stirling looks just about in his reach i.e AABBB as does Glasgow Caledonian and then there seems to be a drop to Uni of H&I for example that only looks for BBC.

He is far cleverer than his results would suggest but has suffered with mental health and probably has undiagnosed dyspraxia.

Can anyone suggest any further places that might cater to the level he is likely to get or any thoughts on the quality of the likes of Caledonian? My mind is drawing a blank and UCAS search didn't help. To me he should be going for Stirling but I think he wants the option to move away after 1st year. I've said that currently living within walking distance doesn't mean that he can't still move out... :)

Don't know where "fed option" came from - that was supposed to be "description"

I had no idea of the numbers who did PIR (Wasn't mentioned at the talks we went to and I never thought to ask ). The talk we had last year was more about what IR was, who was the "father" of IR and developed the definition, why it was important, some of the areas that would be analysed and what it could be used for.

I think we had a different talk :)

Ended up with a discussion about Kanye West and who would win in a fight, 1 giant Kanye against 25 mini ones. The object of it was to say, well we will never know, but what you need to do is to decide what you think and be able to argue your case. It doesn't matter if your lecturer agrees with your opinion, what matters is the ability to think and argue your case. Also talked about being able to empathise with people and it all being about Who gets what when and how and how the globality of things now means that the distinction between Politics and IR is really blurred and explains why they are now taught as one subject. Made the point that he was 18 on 9/11 (his "shooting of Kennedy" moment) and it seems like recent history to him still but that the students starting next year would either only just have been born or not born yet and how their outlook on the world will have been shaped differently to his.

That sounds similar to the guy who talked to us at the Offer Holders Day - and made us all (parents as well as prospective students ) do some work and then justify our opinions

Good luck to your ds. I think he has a good foundation on which to write a good personal statement, which will have the "scent" of truth.

Did you go to the UCAS Applications talk given by one of the Arts faculty Admissions staff at Aberdeen Wax?
We thought he was really good at spelling out how they dealt with the 3 groups of applications. Those that met conditions already would be given unconditionals with only minimal ref to the personal statements. If they felt there was no chance of meeting conditions in 6th year it would be a rejection but he said those in the “middle ground” were the most interesting. Far more stress placed on the personal statement and any mitigating factors must also be included/evidenced in the reference. He also stressed that they were very happy to receive email enquiries for clarification on any issues directly. Seemed very friendly and approachable.
Also very good at spelling out what he looked for in a PS.
We thought the Open Day was very good and it’s moved into second place ahead of Edinburgh for my daughter.

That sounds encouraging for Wax's ds I agree that the Aberdeen Open Day is very well organised.

Ds only went to the Aberdeen Open Day under duress after strong encouragement from me not to discount it (he thought it was too isolated). He came away having been really impressed with the "feel" of the place (and the subject talk).

This was in contrast to his impression of St Andrews which he had hated as too intense, too isolated and too much like a giant Hogwarts, even though it was really good for the subject he was wanting to do. I couldn't disagree with assessment as it was astute and accurate: some love it (as I did - it's my alma mater) and some hate it.

Edinburgh stayed his first choice (because of rugby ) but it meant he wasn't too upset when he got the rejections from Edinburgh. His only real disappointment was that he wasn't able to combine his love of Maths with IR (one of his applications to Edinburgh was for IR and Quantitative Methods).

And as he himself said: the benefit of getting the rejections from Edinburgh so late (mid/late March) was that he never suffered from Unconditionalitis as it would have been a shame to waste all the hard work he'd put in to date, with the exams so close It also helped that we were already going to the Aberdeen Offer Holders Day a couple of days later (which was similarly very slick).

He came away from that describing Aberdeen as a "hidden gem": all the advantages of an Ancient Uni, a campus Uni and a city Uni even if it was still a bit isolated

And now that he's up there, he's found that he can still play decent rugby with the local team even if he was disappointed with the Uni rugby club

Definitely very encouraging. In fact he went as far as to say that in his experience, students who have to overcome difficulties and work to meet conditions quite often do better overall at Uni.
That’s interesting about your son’s order of preference prettybird It shows how much of their decision is based on which Uni just feels like the right fit for them. My daughter has St A’s as her first choice, now followed by Aberdeen. It is exactly it’s small scale and the traditions and history that appeals to her. We are going to the Visiting Day next week but already know it extremely well through many family holidays there and did also go along to the Visiting Day this time last year.
I have to say it will be a relief when her application does get sent off - hopefully almost there now!

Ds didn't even put St Andrews onto his UCAS form as he was unlikely to get an offer ("only" 3 As and 2Bs for his Highers, even through he was predicted good results for his AHs and crash relevant Higher) and it would just have been a waste of an application, especially as he hadn't liked the place (he was terribly apologetic telling me that , as he knew I'd loved my time there, but I told him that his assessment was astute and accurate and that I respected him to recognising it wasn't the right fit for him )

He ended up putting Dundee down as his last choice, even though he'd not been to any Open Days.

Strathclyde was his other choice: chose it rather than Glasgow as he felt it was a better fit for IR (again, he only went to its Open Day because I pushed encouraged him ) and he only wanted to include one "home" Uni (which to be fair, was one more than I put into my UCCA form ).

Thanks for the further info ladies :)

We didn't do the UCAS talk as we were fully booked with only 15 mins between everything. Didn't get a tour or go up to the halls either! As we've just been through this last year with DS1, the ucas went off the list. That's really good info about the PS, I'll need to encourage DS to actually share his and allow us to "support" him with it. According to DS1, he said he liked Aberdeen. He's still not said much to me or DH but then he's had music and driving lessons today, he seems to be feeling better though.

What is your daughter applying for Hot?

She wants to study some combination of History and English Wax She's always loved both and doing both at AH this year. No thoughts on possible career plans going forward though!
Is that you and your son finished with Open Days now? We've actually only done three and it's likely she'll just apply to those, St Andrew's, Aberdeen and Edinburgh.

Oh, and the Aberdeen Admissions chap also said to make only one application to them for Arts subjects as students are admitted to the Arts programme with lots of flexibility within that. So, effectively you waste an application if you apply separately say for Politics & IR and History.

Best of luck going forward with the decision making.

That's good advice Ginger: ds is currently doing PIR, Economics, one of the types of Philosophy and History (of 20th Century Europe) as his options, so in theory he could take any of them forward.

Given that he'd dropped History after S2, that's been quite a jump for him (Just as well I didn't let him drop English for Highers )

Unless your dd has brilliant Higher results, I'd advise putting in 2 place markers for the other 2 options. She can always change them if she changes her mind by end January.

Wax - do encourage your ds to share his PS and allow you to support him. Ds' school/pastoral care teacher refused even to look at it until one of his parents had cast their eye over it. You've seen the difference in emphasis that just a slight change to the opening can make: still "him" but much stronger. That helped him see how to structure the rest of the PS so that it flowed.

Thanks prettybird It is hugely valuable to read recent application experiences.
I know, it does seem daft not to use all five choices. She may make more than one application to one or more Unis or may decide to apply somewhere she’s not visited at the last minute. There will be Offer Holder days I assume if she ends up in a conflicted position.
She did get 5 As at Higher last year and is doing 3 AHs this year, two in her subjects of choice which are going well to date. She is aware how competitive St A’s is though so knows her personal statement will have to come across well.
Does anyone have any knowledge of how two applications in the same faculty would be treated by St A’s? I know from their Open Day that Edinburgh would make only one offer if applying for two Arts courses so effectively making the choice for you.

Ds made 2 applications to Edinburgh - but knew that even if he were accepted, he'd get a rejection as well.

I don't know about St Andrews. Why not email/phone their admissions and ask?

Why not include Glasgow or Strathclyde as alternatives? I might be biased, but my mum did her English degree at Steathclyde (albeit 50 years ago ), followed by an MPhil (on Doris Lessing) and ended up as a brilliant English teacher (she was supposedly Marti Pellow's favourite teacher, according to an interview in some magazine even if he did scramble up her/my weird surname ).

I know that they are "city" Unis, so maybe not what your dd is looking for.

How lovely he remembered your mum prettybird!
We are definite smalltown Eastcoasters so Glasgow is seen as way too big and far away!! She knows Edinburgh a bit better so that has (just) made the shortlist!
We still have St Andrew’s Visiting Day to come so will definitely ask the question about how 2 applications would be treated v’s a joint application. What a minefield!

There's also Dundee which seems smaller/more personal. @groovee 's dd is there I think - she might be able to comment.

Plus Stirling for a true campus experience.

I loved my time studying English at Stirling . It's quite a pioneering department. They were among the first to include creative writing submissions as alternatives to conventional essays and support a creative writing dissertation option. Their Film and Media School was also a first. I was an honorary History Geek as so many of my friends were combining the two. Ah nostalgia...

Thanks Hot, I think not being sure what to do afterwards is what DS is also struggling with. He feels he should be doing something "practical" that leads to a job which is of course the ideal scenario but unfortunately his interests and skills don't really lend themselves to that unless he wanted to each, which he doesn't. However I've spent a fair bit of time explaining about transferable skills. I was glad the History talk also mentioned that (before I dropped off!) I think we probably followed each other about on Saturday! :) I hope neither DH or I was snoring....

It's the only Open day we've been to with DS2, he was very resistant before but it's a protection mechanism about not wanting to be disappointed when he can't go. I'm hoping to talk him into talking a walk up to the Stirling one on Saturday although he is adamant he wants to go "away". His other main prospect is Dundee and we've missed those though I think it might be worth going to one of the tours. They are all during the week though so neither DH or I would be able to go. I'm going to see if he can round up a friend and maybe go together on the train if they can get off school.

Otherwise, I've suggested applying and going to any offer holder days should he get any offers!

That's good to know about the applications, Thank you again for all your help with that. he was intending to apply for PIR and some other combination probably including History/and or English. To be honest he has 5 selections to make and probably wont have 5 things to apply for. He has made no decision on a "safe" option either. I've asked is there anywhere he has a desire to go but doesn't think he has the results for and he could put it as a wild card but he says no there isn't.

Good luck to your DD with her application :)

I've spoken to him about the PS pb and I've just sent him a list of some things to remember and include and that he needs to back up any statement with evidence i.e, Don't say you are passionate, say how you've demonstrated that passion. I hope he takes it on board and wants our help. I keep saying that it's up to him and needs to be his own words, i'm just making suggestions and reminders.

Bit of progress, we popped into Stirling day today and he liked the sound of the courses so wants to include that. Aberdeen remains first choice, he'll apply to Stirling and probably Dundee and then doesn't know what to do about the other slots. Dundee have said that they would want two further As and they don't double count so his AH effectively would need to be an A or B to go above the B he already has for English. He's asked same question for Aberdeen and I think it will be the same for Stirling. At least one of his remaining slots needs to be a safe bet that he'd be happy with. UHI have a very low requirement of BBC which he already exceeds. Other option would be UWS but the course isn't quite what he'd want and Glasgow Cale which has a fairly high entry tariff (ABBBB) but it's a general Social Science course which isn't really what he wants. Abertay is general Sociology, again not really what he's looking for.

That's positive news

Hopefully it will motivate him to work really hard to get the required results - and that the teachers at his school see the difference and give good predictions. I think his personal statement will be key to getting offers - even if they end up being conditionals.

Good luck

Thanks PB, yes, he is very motivated at the moment. He is fairly confident of getting good predictions from two teachers and it depends who gives the 3rd one. I really like his English teacher as does he. Both my boys have had her in the past and I find her firm but fair and she seems to like him. History teacher he has had for one subject or another, every year of High School. She is a proper "old school" type teacher and DS really loves and respects her and I get the feeling that the feelings are mutual. For Politics he gets the History teacher for half the time and "he who cannot be named" for the other half.

I think some pupils have been missing classes and he hasn't. The only thing standing in his way is not working hard enough as he is perfectly capable of As in his highers. He'd need at least a B in his AH to improve his result and it's quite a subjective subject I suppose so my view is that whilst he should work hard on all 3, if it comes down to priorities then he needs to concentrate on the Highers.

I think he's made some poor choices across the exam years though that have made it a struggle now. he wouldn't listen this year when I was saying the AH wasn't a good idea, he wouldn't listen last year when I said he'd be better sticking with BM rather than dropping it, ending up with Geography and then dropping that. hey ho, we are where we are...