Liam Fee's murder...

[Behooven]

I have been following this horrific story through the media. I know it's still in court so shall 'haud ma wheesht' until the verdict...
But on the evidence presented so far - shocked and sickened

Was the One Database a bit like the named person thing in Scotland - all children are on there? Which I disagree with as it will cost a fortune to set up/maintain along with the big brother aspect. And also things like teachers will be a named person - but I don't think they will be working during the school holidays....and what happens if the named person goes on sick leave ...
Like the social worker in the case of Liam Fee (and apparently he had a named person) - would the one Database made any difference as Social services were aware anyway?

The SNP policy is to have a National Identity database for Scotland. Everyone gets an ID number.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/02/scottish-identity-database-plans-privacy-risk-ministers-warned

Given that Governments and companies all over the world regularly get these things wrong I am tempted to say that this will follow the usual pattern

1. It will be late
2. It will cost 3-4 times its stated budget
3. It wont work properly
4. It will be abused
5. It will enable identity theft to be industrialised

And God help you if your ID gets deleted.

The Scottish Govt has spent the best part of £200 million pounds on a computer system to allocate EU payments to farmers that doesn't bloody work.

They certainly shouldn't be trusted to create a data base jam packed with highly sensitive and confidential information about every family in Scotland.

The Scottish Government risks being fined between €45 to €120 million by the EU if it has not sorted this by 30 June. Whilst there were problems with English and Welsh payments I believe they have now sorted it.

The thing is they (SNP) are already trying to collect lots of data on everyone.
To claim funding for a 2 or 3yr old the application form is now 7 pages long.
Apart from details of the child - including their birth certificate or passport number and proof of their address they also ask for:
Family details - up to 3 carer contacts, addresses and their relationship with the child, siblings and their DOB and school/nursery.
Health visitor and GP contact info, additional support needs and medical conditions, professionals involved with your child.
Looked after status, ethnic origin, religion, national identity, asylum status, home language.
Intended primary school.
This is all supposed to be entered on a database that is stored 'in the cloud' and run by a private company, who apparently are providing the service for most of the councils in Scotland.
Not all the categories are 'essential' but the council have to opt out of those fields. If they haven't it won't allow the person entering the data to not enter info in those fields - they won't be able to apply for funding for that child.
And the details entered will follow them through the education system up to 18 (will be updated yearly) - no idea if it will deleted then or not.
Previous application form asked for the child's details and their intended Nursery/primary school. Other info needed for Nurseries (Emergency contacts, medical info ) was collected but kept mainly on their systems/on paper so access was restricted and most information was required to be deleted on leaving - some information had to be retained but destroyed after 10yrs...
And that is happening now ...and has been for a few years now.

Yes, we get those data forms every year from school. Sure, the additional contact detail is important but not the second page with identity (you can choose, amongst othes, Scottish or British iirc), religon, languages spoken at home etc.

I leave most blank and write 'not relevant'.

lizzie yes it was introduced in schools and now they are moving onto introducing it in preschools/nurseries. And it depends on the the way your local council have it set up whether you are allowed to leave parts blank - the default is all parts are required for the person to enter the record.
I was at a meeting with someone from the private company and basically their attitude was it helps with the council planning if eg they need to consider religious food provision or addition special needs support...
Also from what I can understand they can sell the anonymised data to private companies...
I really don't like it!

Wow at the sentences! Genuinely didn't think they would get that long. RIP Liam you gorgeous wee boy x

They have started an appeal process on their convictions.

Liam Fee killers to appeal convictions - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-36806481

Cannot believe believe they are appealing .

Surley there is no chance they have reasonable grounds to appeal ?

I wondered if they both may appeal blaming each other? It was never considered who actually dealt the blow (which I agree with as they are mutually to blame regardless). I wondered if that was the reason for one of them being moved from CV to Saughton?

I think the law in Scotland allows them to be guilty in concert. If they each say "it waisnae me , it was her" either of them could have put a stop to the other's behaviour towards the children and called in help.

That's good then Lass, so I wonder what the basis of their appeal is? I sincerely hope it is turned down.

Co accused or co convicted aren't allowed to be jailed together, so one was always going to get moved!

Nyomi Fee was claiming she was going to be top dog in CV.

I cannot believe I have just read she has been granted the right to appeal.

what the actual fuck?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-38029170

Probably a legal technicality. Doesn't mean she has a chance of having the verdict overturned. If the legal technicality means that the trial is null and void, the Fiscal will just call a retrial. And all the witnesses and jurors will have to go through the whole thing again.

luna - if there is a retrial the witnesses will have to go through it all again, but it will be a different jury

YY that's what I meant.... same witnesses but a different set of jurors. Didn't express that very well ;-)

What about all the publicity after the first trial - how would they pick a new unbiased jury? Or would they try them under different names?

Just been reading this thread, and wondered - does Saughton take women prisoners then? I thought CV being the only women's prison in Scotland meant some women, like in this case, being sent to English prisons. But I think it was just an assumption on my part.

Puppet - It used to be the case that all woman (and female young offenders) went to CV. However CV was set to be closed entirely with all female prisoners now being accommodated in a range of female only units around the other prisons, CV having been declared unfit for purpose.

However, I think there has been a partial reprieve for CV in that although the older part of the prison will go, a unit will be retained to house some prisoners.

I think part of the issue was with visiting and it being unfair that prisoners would receive far fewer visits since it meant family having to travel from anywhere in Scotland to CV. Now they are able to house prisoners closer to their own area.

Shouldn't that be part of the punishment though? Why make it easier for those that inflict suffering on society.

Fluffy, there was a big suicide issue in CV for a while, I guess the conditions contributed to that. I'm not one to come down lightly on people such as those we are discussing on this thread however, we need to remember that the vast majority of women who are imprisoned are often there for "minor" offences and you are more likely to be imprisoned for a minor offence as a woman than men are. Also men who are imprisoned due to the larger amounts and greater number of facilities, are more often than not housed more closely to their home area than women are, so women prisoners were getting the shitty end of the stick. Also children are more likely to have a closer bond with their female parent so it makes it crueler on any children too as they will be less likely to be able to visit their mother.

Anyway, I'm not saying prison life should be a bed of roses, but it should be equal for all classes of prisoner and being in prison for being unale to pay debts and then being sent 200 miles away with no family contact seems to be unnaturally cruel, whereas I'd happily support using defunct oil rigs to house Liam's killers and the like and just drop them off there and leave them to get on with it.

Thanks for that info, WHandT, that explains it. It does make sense.