SNP Conference?

[AnthonyBlanche]

Anyone been following news reports from the SNP Conference? Or anyone been there in person listening to what is said.

I've only had time to read a few news reports and was disgusted to read the Angus Robertson is blaming the elderly and people from overseas for the NO vote last September. Does he not understand that there are many many Scots of all ages who did some research and on the basis of that research came to the conclusion that the SNPs plans were flawed and unworkable? The man is a stupid xenophobic deluded fool.

On the other hand I was cheered to read that Sturgeon has finally admitted that there won't be another referendum any time soon. I wonder if the independence at any cost brigade will split off from the SNP and form their own Independence Party.

The "independence at any cost brigade" is the SNP!

Absolute shower of shites.

I did hear a bit about how they are propping up the difference to help save Scots from the welfare reforms.....so how come the Social justice budget was so far underspent then? How come we have all these food banks when what was left in that budget could have supplied all the food banks for a year at least? The money given to T in the park could have bought a couple of houses and taken some people of the homeless lists.

Also saw them blaming the rise on unemployment on Westminster though I am sure if the figure had fallen they would be taking the credit.

Was there, and delighted to see a resolution passed about autism and the justice system, to work on educating police etc. on dealing with people who have autism. Hopefully putting in place guidelines, and measures such as carrying a card which can be given to police by the person will go some way towards alleviating some of the stresses.

It's interesting how different people can read different reports about the same event and come away with diametrically different impressions.

I read a report about Angus Robertson's speech in the Courier hardly an SNP mouthpiece here

The impression I took away from what he said was that if there was blame to be attributed it was to him personally and to the campaign generally for not having done enough to assuage the fears of certain groups. Certainly not that he was "blaming" them for having voted the way that they did.

Just repeating the SNP lie that no voters were fooled or threatened or scared into voting no. As opposed to the yes voters who were told everything would be golden in an independent Scotland, a free unicorn in every driveway.

My thought on the SNP conference was "where's a volcano when you want one".

On the good side Mhairi Black is turning out rather well, her politics are wrong but at least she shows promise for the future. I do wish they would stop peddling the story that she paid her way through university by working in achip shop. She has middle class parents, no fees and a really short journey from home to university, the chip shop money was for fun.

Pretty to say that no voters had "fears" is a lie. The vast majority of no voters were intelligent enough to read the propaganda information (ie white paper) put out by the SNP and come to the conclusion that independence would be economically disastrous for Scotland. Many others were likely quite happy with remaining in the UK in principle, and had no wish for that to change. The SNP need to realise that they had their referendum, the answer was no and they now need to,respect that and move on.

As for all that crap about scots not wanting to leave the EU, there is no evidence that people in Scotland are more likely to vote to remain in the EU than people in England or Wales. I would laugh long and loud if Scotland voted to leave the EU but the rest of the UK voted to stay in. What would wee nickynac say then??

Anthony - one of the most vociferous Yes supporters on the Indyref threads last year admitted that, during her stint of door to door campaigning, very few Yes voters were really interested in the EU and quite a few of them said they'd prefer Scotland was not in the EU.

I bet they've changed their mind now that NS has stated a vote to remain in the EU in Scotland while the rest of the UK voted to leave would trigger another independence referendum.

I am flabbergasted every time NS refers to Westminster/DC as being arrogant. It seems to me each time she opens her mouth at the moment she is arrogance personified.

It probably won't happen, but I really wish the SNP would fall flat on their arses in next year's elections. I don't even want to stay in my own country anymore.

It always annoys me when voting No out of fear is described as something to be ashamed of, something signifying weakness. It wasn't just bloody lairds and thanes and Elie dwellers wanting to preserve their lifestyles who voted no. Plenty of low income people voted no because they were shit scared of losing their jobs: my friend at work earns £14k, her DH works for the armed forces. She was terrified that a Yes vote would have meant having to move their two kids down south or try to get by on just her salary until her DH found other work. Her older daughter has complex additional support needs and has benefited a lot from being settled in one place for a good while now.

And the morning after the referendum, I've got people on my FB page who earn 5 times my pal's salary calling all No voters scum and cowards - "look what you've done to Scotland." Just fuck off, you middle class teacher in your 3 bed house in King's Park, what the fuck do you know? Come and chat to my pal and then tell me that fear isn't a legitimate response to the prospect of your low salary suddenly being the only one coming in when your kids need new shoes for PE.

Honestly, I was a (Green, never SNP) Yes for the longest time. But I couldn't vote yes in good faith when kind, hardworking people like my pal were so scared.

laplume I am hopeful that SNP will lose votes in my constituency. The fraudster Michelle Thomson is my MP and I hope that her behaviour will turn people away from voting SNP in the Holyrood election.

The idea that Michell Thomson did not commit mortgage fraud is laughable.

If I'd added in "concerns" would that be better? You attack me the use of the word "fear" and then use examples of people's fears to explain why they voted No.

I have never abused anyone for the way that they voted. We all vote our own way for our own reasons in any election or referendum. Fear is part of the motivation for some - I'm not suggesting that is an invalid reason. Some of us vote for things, some of us vote against things.

I actually have the most respect not that I don't respect other reasons before I get challenged on that for those that voted No because they felt British as well as (or indeed instead of) Scottish. Indeed in 1979, if I'd been able to vote (on the register but not yet eligible to vote) I'd have voted No (as it was, my vote counted towards the No). I was proud to be adopted British and saw that as stronger than my Scottish identity. I had vociferous arguments with friends at Uni on the subject - and I am still friends with them.

Pretty I am afraid it annoys me when the no voters conclusion that an independent Scotland would not be economically viable is referred to as "fears". it was not fear (with its negative connotations) which made me vote no, but a recognition (after assessing all available information) that the SNP case for independence was a fantasy built on lies.

Perhaps you would be better to think of yes voters as the ones who are frightened - frightened of the big bad English who they think of as different to them.

I think "fear" is a perfectly good word, pretty. It's the notion that fear is automatically something to be ashamed of that bothers me. I have no issue with the way anyone voted: plenty of arsehole behaviour on both the No and Yes sides. It would have been a better time if everyone had managed to be respectful and compassionate, like you, like me (at least how I've tried to be).

My Danish relatives can't understand why we don't think we could survive economically as an independent nation. They are a similar size, with arguably fewer resources, yet do ok .

Interesting anecdote about your Danish relatives pretty but not sure why you think it is at all relevant

I think that most no and yes voters are so far apart in their views that there is no middle ground. Most people on each side will never be persuaded to change their minds, though there are some people in the middle ground who could be swayed either way.

I voted no, not because of any fear on my part, but because SNP couldn't come up with any economic policy other than to shout OIL at any and every opportunity.
Did anyone see the interview with Stewart Hosie this week? When questioned about the revenue gap that there would now be (£7.5 BILLION) had there been a yes vote, Hosie still couldn't come up with an answer.
blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/watch-snps-stewart-hosie-asks-interviewer-why-are-you-doing-this-as-he-flounders-on-nhs-and-oil/

I watched that interview the other day sparkles. Hosie was his usual inept self and came across as very ill informed and having no answers.

It was great wasn't it I particularly enjoyed the questions on the NHS given that Hosie's wife is Health Minister.
I have the incredible misfortune to live in his constituency-this is less amusing

The ineptness of the majority of SNP politicians is depressingly. You've got Stewart Hosie and I've got Michelle "mortgage fraud" Thomson. They really are a shower of shit.

The reason for its relevance is that one of the arguments against independence is that we are "too small" or that we would fail economically - yet there are many, many countries which are the same size or smaller which manage to survive just fine. Indeed 5 million is the median size for UN members.

If people don't like the SNP's economic policies, if Scotland were to become independent, they don't need to vote for them. The electorate might actually choose to elect a Conservative Party . Or maybe the LibDems or Labour Parties would be re-energised and find new popularity.

It's a small step prettybird but libdem recently won a Highland Council seat previously help by SNP, partially through Labour and Libdem working together so that the non SNP vote was not split, one would hope that this would continue through to the Holyrood election next year, and the result may not be what the SNP are assuming it will be.

Sorry to burst your bubble pretty but I think the too small, too poor too stupid argument was started by the SNP to try and shame NO voters into voting yes. It certainly wasn't a reason why I, or anyone I know, voted NO.

I still fail to see the relevance of Denmark. Nicaragua has a population similar to that of Scotland and has one of the lowest GDPs in the Americas. Perhaps you should ask people in Nicaragua what they think?

I think we live in different worlds in our recollections as to who started the "Too small, too poor" arguments.

FWIW - I don't really care about the economic arguments - and I say that as an Economics graduate (joint with French). Economic situations (and governments) change. You either believe a/the country should be independent or you don't. My father had long arguments with me about this (when I tried to have economic arguments with him), saying that for him it was about the right to self-determination.

I think you and your father are probably representative of a lot of yessers pretty. Independence at all costs, based on the false premise that Scotland was forcibly annexed by England over 300 years ago.

It's not the size, it's what you do with it.

The problem is that the SNP told everyone that not only were things not going to get any worse or cost more, that in fact things would be better. They failed however to explain how any of this would be paid for given that we'd need billions more revenue just to maintain the status quo.

I voted No but actually I don't have any objection to a properly funded, economically viable independent Scotland. That's not what was on the table. Unlike a lot of Yes voters, I know that it comes at a cost and up to a point I am prepared to pay that for a fairer society. I am not prepared to be held at ransom by people who don't contribute either financially or otherwise to our society and told that I am a traitor or that I was afraid. I wasn't afraid at all, it just didn't make any sense and it still doesn't.

The plan at the moment seems to be to swap Westminster for Brussels, that would mean tying into the Euro and that would be a recipe for disaster in my book.

My Danish relatives can't understand why we don't think we could survive economically as an independent nation. They are a similar size, with arguably fewer resources, yet do ok

Glad to see you're still using that line, prettybird, and still ignoring the fact most of us were worried about the process and the cost of becoming independent. It's a completely irrelevant analogy.

Actually you are totally wrong Anthony

Why would I have voted No if I could have in 1979 (and I think my parents voted No) if that was what I thought? Why would I have had arguments with friends at Uni about my "British" national identity? Or during my year in France, explaining to my colleagues and friends that I was "ecossaise et britannique"? And argued about the risks of "nationalism", that the world needed to come together more rather than break into smaller units.

I was proud to be naturalised British - as were my parents.

And I personally don't know any of my friends who voted Yes unthinkingly - they thought about it very thoroughly and came to their decision from many different perspectives - as did the majority of the No voters (not that I knew many). The only individual I came across who was "ignorant" was a No voter who explicitly stated he didn't want to read anything and wanted Alex Salmond to tell him in person what was going to happen to his passport and because he hadn't been contacted individually, was voting No. It's the closest I came to having a heated argument - not because he was voting No but because he was abdicating any personal responsibility to inform himself - of either the Better Together arguments or of the Yes arguments. But I didn't bother, as it was his prerogative to choose to vote for the status quo. He was also not a close enough friend to waste emotional energy on (as dh reminded me).