SNP Conference?

[AnthonyBlanche]

Anyone been following news reports from the SNP Conference? Or anyone been there in person listening to what is said.

I've only had time to read a few news reports and was disgusted to read the Angus Robertson is blaming the elderly and people from overseas for the NO vote last September. Does he not understand that there are many many Scots of all ages who did some research and on the basis of that research came to the conclusion that the SNPs plans were flawed and unworkable? The man is a stupid xenophobic deluded fool.

On the other hand I was cheered to read that Sturgeon has finally admitted that there won't be another referendum any time soon. I wonder if the independence at any cost brigade will split off from the SNP and form their own Independence Party.

Santana - I am still using that "line" because it is a true statement. My Danish relatives are surprised. Should I be pretending that they are not? They had long debates with my dad and were genuinely confused as to why people thought that Scotland couldn't be a viable country - as that (to them) cast aspersions as to their own credibility. We're not Danish BTW - these are my dad's cousins.

I can respect your concerns about the process - but many other "new" countries have successfully navigated that process.

Ah well pretty luckily for me and the majority of my fellow Scots the vote was a resounding NO.

The SNPs credibility and lack of ability is slowly starting to show (police, NHS, education and dodgy MSPs and MPs) so I doubt nickynac will be pushing for another referendum anytime soon.

Population density of Density of Denmark is twice that of Scotland. (Population is similar size, area is about half that of Scotland)
It isn't really a good comparison ...the reason Scotland gets more money a head from Westminster is it is expensive to support lots a more spread out, remote population...
So we could increase the population but would need to make cities etc more crowded cos large areas are uninhabitable or and we could always remove support (NHS, Police, Fire and Rescue) from more outlying populations and force them into the centres/lowlands (a bit like the Highland clearances...)

In principle I have no problem with an independent Scotland but what was on offer was a joke. The White paper was a wish list. If they couldn't get that right could we really trust them to organise something as complex as the breakup of the union? (And lets face facts they have absolutely fucked up the NHS, Police and Education).

And to ignore that the people of Scotland wouldn't be worse off in the shorter term (next 30-40 yrs minimum) was... devious... to put it mildly. It wouldn't be a Socialist utopia, a land of milk and honey -if anyone really suffered it would be the poorest in society, the ones who can't generate an income/pay tax - lets face facts we would need to be nice as possible to people who paid tax - we would need as much tax as we could get...and we couldn't risk people skipping over the border to avoid it.

good post unlucky although some of that removal of rural service is already happening. You don't want to need an ambulance even half way rural at the weekend. I know for a fact that they had to send a fire engine to deal with a cardiac arrest as they couldn't get any ambulance service there for at least an hour.....that wasn't even that rural - just outside a decent sized town in Stirlingshire.

but many other "new" countries have successfully navigated that process.

Which countries would those be? South Sudan, Kosovo, Serbia or Eritrea? Who else did you have in mind? I hope it wasn't Finland. I don't regard 1913 to be at all recent.

Or there's Iceland. 1944.... A shining beacon of modernity I'm sure it was

You keep trotting out that line as if Scotland was going to click its fingers and turn into a Scandi paradise with a yes vote.

I've never said it was going to be easy.

But since you asked, how about the Czech Republic, Latvia, Slovakia, Serbia, Namibia of the recently formed countries? Of the 34 countries that have been formed since 1990 (recent enough for you? ), the majority are not basket cases. You show a real lack of confidence in your compatriots.

Re Iceland, I was in the middle of delivering a 12 million € contract to them when the crisis started. My company had to decide whether or not to continue the work or write-off the work that had already been done. After reassurances from the Icelanders, we went ahead - and they did pay (only a month late, because of the capital controls). And Iceland has gone on to pay off their IMF loan ahead of schedule and their economy is recovering faster than the UK (which may or may not have something to do with them refusing to follow an austerity agenda). So I have a soft spot for Iceland.

Anyway, we're going round in circles. You're regurgitating the same stuff I disagree with you about and you think the same about me.

I don't think that Scotland can't manage independently, but they wont without a lot of people pulling their fingers out their arses and stopping expecting something for nothing. And that's not a dig at people in poor circumstances who'd love an opportunity to do better or those in need support. I am basically a socialist at heart and as I've already said before, I would contribute more even though we are not rich. I know what it is like to grow up in poverty and have your life chances limited, it's not nice and it's a waste of our people.

The SNP only have themselves and their own agenda at heart. They have no interest in improving the lot of Scottish people and the are not Socialists though the like to wear that hat when it suits them.

A proportion of Scottish society wants life handed to them on a plate and have no understanding of where the money comes from and another significant proportion are not willing to put their hand in their pockets. Until there is a significant attitude change then I'll continue to be a No voter.

I've been watching the Andrew Neil interviews with Stewart Hosie and Angus Robertson. They didn't impress to say the least.

Lucky it finished before anyone had questions about China, steel and what Nicola was doing there.

Surely the SNP faithful wouldn't ask Nicola any awkward questions?!

yes, it might have been good to ask where the steel that is being used for the new Forth bridge is coming from.....

myother cheap imported Chinese steel, perchance?

that is shocking myother. Would have been worth paying more for the bridge if steel made in the UK had been used.

well a bit of a variety to be fair:

Steel for the bridge’s deck is coming from China and Spain, with steel for the caissons in the tower foundations being fabricated in Poland.

www.scotsman.com/news/transport/deal-struck-to-use-scottish-steel-in-construction-of-new-forth-crossing-government-confirms-1-2702072#axzz3p9KnPOXA

Do you know if tata did supply any steel on the end? Or possibly such a small amount that it made no difference to the company's viability?

I think we need a campaign to buy British. Otherwise we will have no industry at all, and I don't think that is a good thing.

I'm sorry I don't know. My OH follows it more than I do but he is sleeping :) He is a bit more vocal about it all too (letters in the Scotsman etc).

But it's the two faced-ness of it all that does my head in - I get fed up telling people that the SNP don't care about them, they aren't socialists, they have one agenda and one agenda only and that is independence and they all want to be the one that goes down in history as delivering it. Whether it is the right thing for the majority of the population is Scotland is completely irrelevant to them. I'd just like a bit of honesty. With honesty and transparency I might even be persuaded to vote yes. I wont be persuaded by being treated like a daft sheep that can't be told the truth.

And now I am off to bed too! I might do some more digging on the steel front tomorrow :)

I do think regardless that it was proportionally a small amount - possibly as a sop to keep things quiet about where the majority was coming from.

www.thecourier.co.uk/news/scotland/uk-steelwork-firm-wins-forth-replacement-crossing-contract-1.62229

This is probably naive but I think all public projects, whether it be infrastructure like roads, bridges or rail or even house building, should be Contracted to British companies only. The French seem to do it and it works for them.
In the long run, unemployment and other benefits, these stupid taskforces for job hunting etc all cost a fortune anyway so spend a bit more upfront and keep people in their jobs!

I agree, and if there are elements that can't be supplied from here then we should be asking why they aren't and see if there is a gap in the market for somebody. imo we should be keeping everything as local as possible but when you can transport stuff from China more cheaply than you can transport it within the UK then we have a problem...a big problem.

Thinking about it, I am sure European laws on contract tendering stop us from limiting it to UK only and I might be wrong but isn't that the current issue in that there is a change going on that would also allow US companies to bid on supplying services hence the big threat to the Health Service? I may have that totally wrong though so don't quote me :)

I believe that none of the steel plants in the UK were capable of producing the grade of steel necessary for the new Forth bridge, so none of the British-based companies tendered for the contract. We used to produce steel of this grade, but that stopped when Ravenscraig was closed down during the Thatcher era.

So I don't think the present Scottish government are responsible for this.

Behooven I agree with what you're saying - but we have so little manufacturing left here now, quite often we simply don't have the resources to do the work. Also agree that task forces are never going to help with that....