could you live like this?

[ThatVikRinA22]

myself amd DH have been together for over 20 years. in this time, i have always been the "sorter" - the person who sorts everything. DH is very laid back. very placid. very dependable. but also very lazy, stubborn and child like sometimes.

he wont get off his backside and do anything. he snores so i end up on a mattress on DDs floor most weekends - he wont sort it. He wont have a vastectomy so im back on a pill that leaves me feeling crap. (and he hasnt noticed so far that there has been no sex) Yesterday DD was unwell, he left it to me to take her to A&E despite the fact i work for our GP and he could have simply phoned me.
Lately i have persued my dream career, its taken me 2 years and im nearly there. he continues to work unsociable hours for very little money, unpaid overtime, permanent nights. We hardly see each other. He asked me earlier this year to help him find another job. He asked me to do his CV etc (i said he is incapable didnt i??)
he got one knock back then decided he is happy where he is after all.

i suggested looking into other types of work. but again he waited for me to do all the work. ive mentioned a few times about maybe looking into retraining - he says "yeah - i might do" then thats it. I am worried i am changing and leaving him behind. his lack of drive irritates me beyond belief. ive tried to talk to him but i just got "well divorce me then". any suggestions?

Vicar, did sleep apnoea come up in a previous thread of yours? is his snoring the stop-start, catch-breath type?

It could actually explain about 50% of the issues you describe.

And get another bed for heaven's sake! Mattresses on the floor are for short-term guests!

Haven't read it all but I see your DH as I would see a bad employee. You got to decide whether to sack him or develop him. If you decide to develop him then you have to inspire him, persuade him, make him believe that you can be an effective team,; get him to buy into team work. So you need an "offsite"/break with him for some (re)bonding. Perhaps start by playing regular sport/exercise with him if you free up the time.

Then make sure that he has a role in whatever things you are fixing. Then praise his contribution especially before telling him how he can improve next time.

Set him some SMART objectives with quarterly reviews and all that.....

Hi
Sorry to read that life with your hubby is so challenging for you right now. Parts of your script i can so relate to in my life. How to deal with it all I am not sure and would love to hear what you finally decide. When you have been together so long, like me and my hubby have, so many things become "the norm" and accepted. You sound a really organised person and maybe your hubby has taken that for granted and as a sign that he need not do owt. Now after so many years your resenting that (as I do!) and then begin to question your relationship. We all want to feel that our relationship is supportive to both parties andthats how it should be. It is a difficult place to be in I know, when you suddenly realise that the balance is not even. Wish you all the best x

ok am back

briefly - he is having a shower

he is a manager in his workplace - he is developed but taken advantage of to an extreme because he wont say anything to his extremely volatile boss. maybe i am the same. maybe he puts up with me and i put with him....dunno. i know im not easy to live with. he is laid back in the extreme. im not. we have always been ying/yang and it works mainly.

sleep apnea - he is isnt a drinker or overweight but it would be worth checking out. if my job comes off (i am praying) we are going to look to move house to provide me with my own room. its really that bad. though he says he will go to the docs if i make an appt - which i have just said No to. all he has to do is phone me at work - i currently work for our GP. he can surely do that himself? he says he will. i wont be holding my breath. but its maybe a start.

VicarInaTuTu- so sorry to hear. Sleep deprivation must feel like torture. Becareful about moving house/taking sxtra debt before you fix the relationship though

in some ways it feels like im moving on without him and that scares me. ive never had a career, never had any self esteem. suddenly i realised a desire to be something, and ive absolutely worked with determination to get it. he has been supportive but just in the way he would be if i said i was going to give up work and become a nun. he never has an obvious opinion on anything i do. its just a bit odd. but maybe i am over thinking - i think on a sub conscious level i am looking for a reason to fail my last test for my new job because im scared of the changes it will bring.

maybe things will seem different again after next week. then i can tackle him on the snoring and the other stuff. i mentioned it tonight. he knows its coming!

oh and btw - i dont think the relationship is dysfunctional. i have very happy well rounded balanced children. i dont think i am setting a bad example. its not like we fight, or argue, or dont speak. we get on really really well most of the time even if it doesnt sound like it....i do need him in my life. its not like we dont love one another. We think the same on most things, we get on, he stops me panicking and being silly and i kick him up the arse or do stuff for him....its just that after 20 odd years its difficult to say "ok, i know youve done this for 20 years but heres the thing - i pisses me off...."

*it!!! it not i

i think. although i piss me off sometimes.

If he doesn't want to change, then you can't make him change, but you can change how you are with him. When he moans about his job, say, "Yes, it must be horrible for you, but things won't improve until you stand up for yourself" and change the subject. Don't take his problems on board, and try and sort them for him. Give him back ownership of his problems. You are a very capable lady, and as so often happens in long marriages you are growing, and he is static. Develop your career, and stop trying to look after him as you do your kids. Don't make appointments for him or do stuff for him that he should do for himself. I see a lot of my hubby in yours - although mine has a good career - he will leave everything to me, and has no get up and go at all. It irritates the hell out of me, but I accept that he is what he is, and I just live my own life to a certain extent. Bounce his problems back to him. When mine had a really bad back, and needed regular painkillers, he would ask me when the next lot were due, like a kid having calpol. I would ring him up to remind him to take his tablets. Now, if he back went again, I'd just leave him to work it out for himself. T think men like us to treat them like our kids sometimes, they like the fuss and attention. I stopped fussing over mine, and now he has to get on with it. As for the snoring, buy yourself some ear plugs! vGood luck.

Much sense in what Saffysmum said....you can do this and still ensure that you are nice to him, particularly when he is doing the right thing you should be encouraging.

Also think that you should use sport/exercise as a sort of medium for change in your relationship. Do something energetic together and you will strengthen your bonds and create more positive energy.

Nice to see that you are working at your relationship and value the good things in it. Very pleasing.

"in some ways it feels like im moving on without him and that scares me. ive never had a career, never had any self esteem. suddenly i realised a desire to be something, and ive absolutely worked with determination to get it."

It souds like this is how he's alwayss been and that you were "ok" with this before. It's become a problem now that you've changed. I don't know what the solution is but I think getting angry with him isn't going to be helpful and is a bit unfair.

You've taken the decision to change yourself and now expect him to start behaving a different way too. Change is a transformation, a process - not an event. If you love this man, then you need to find a way to get him to begin this process with you; someone wiser will be a long with how to get him to join you on your journey.

In the meantime, find coping strategies to see you through until then. Help hi msort out the snooring thing because really, that's in your own self interest. If you feel the need to, get that spare bed.

Best of luck vicar, you sound like you've taken some bold steps with your life. give him a chance to get his head round all this.

Okay, one question, and I don't think anyone else has asked. You have an autistic child, correct? Could your DH be an undiagnosed Autist?

I have also been with my DH for over 20 years, and our youngest DC has autism. I have also been the sorter in our relationship. I now work part-time around my DDs school hours and my DH works long hours in his very stressful and demanding job.

So I see a lot of similarities here - we also sleep apart, but we each have our own room. Now in itself, there's nothing wrong with sleeping separately IMO, as long as you manage to keep the intimacy going. But you're not, so that is a problem. You say your DH hasn't noticed that there's been no sex, but you'll probably find he has noticed and is too hesitant to mention anything. AS another poster said, I think it's very important for you to get your own space in terms of sleeping. That way you can start to revive your sex life without having to tackle the snoring at the same time.

He seems to suffer from a lack of confidence. That's not an easy thing to overcome and is usually a part of a person's temperament - I know, because I'm also that way inclined. He would probably have to go into personal counselling to find ways to cope better with his low self-esteem and confidence issues. You may have a battle even getting him to admit that he has a problem though.

Your DH sounds like he has a lot of good qualities, and is a nice man. He clearly doesn't want to lose you and you still love each other. However, realistically you may have to face the fact that he isn't going to change his personality a great deal. Sorry that's probably not much help. Concentrate on your career at the moment, get through the job-change and see how you feel then.

OP: do you get a chance to do fun things together? Sport, exercise, eating out, .....?

we had really made the effort to eat together out somewhere once a week or so, but recently i have had to divert every spare minute into training for a test for the new job. its nearly over. when ive got this bit out of the way we will find more time to do things together again. i am stressed because of the pressure ive been under with it all i think. some of the things ive had to undertake as part of the recruitment for the new job ive found really hard.

sport - i do quite a bit of training now (gym, running, that kind of thing) but he has no interest in joining me. ive tried. yesterday he came with me to the park to practice the bleep test....he decided to run with me, but his job is knackering his lungs and he got wheezy really quickly - he has occupational asthma. (again - he hasnt gone back to gp to sort out inhalers - he will again leave it until i do it.) and thats what annoys me. he is so clever, so able on so many levels, but so unambitious and the job he has is so hard on him and us as a family.

we have the same values, we think the same way, we agree with each other most of the time, we get on well, we have a laugh, we like the same dvds and music, but i feel like i was once this bubbly outgoing person who became more and more like him, we never do anything together any more other than sit and watch telly. i have friends, i see friends regularly, though i find myself doing this alone these days as he finds social situations awkward and doesnt know what to talk about, thats where i help him - im a natural talker and i make it easy for him, but he seems perfectly happy with his own company.

the autism definitely comes from my side. not his, though i realise when i write stuff down that he may look like he is on the spectrum himself. i dont think he is though. im more on the spectrum than he is. He is tidy, efficient, organised, methodical, practical, he often laughs at me because i am just like my son in some ways, i can be frantic, messy, disorganised, uptight and panic easily. he puts up with quite a bit from me really, the fact he is laid back is a good thing in that respect.

i think i will be ok when after next week. i am having a little panic over something i have to do next week and it occurs to me i could be diverting my stressing from that onto my nearest and dearest.
things maybe need to change a little, but it will be easier in so many ways when ive got the security of a start date for the new job. then the finances ease. maybe other things will start to ease too.

Sounds like a tough recruitment procedure, Vicar - good luck!

If DH has a lung condition AND apnoea, it's really quite likely his body's going into regular crisis mode from lack of oxygen. Apart from fatigue & lethargy, this tends to cause digestive disorders and other spasmodic symptoms like numbness/tingling, headaches and backaches.

I appreciate the importance of getting him to do stuff for himself, but think it might be worth frog-marching him to the doctor's and going in with him! Yes, I know he's not a child - but otoh, you'd call a doctor if he collapsed, wouldn't you?

Hope things soon start to fall into place for you both

ok grace then i may well do that. it just pisses me off that he is so incapable and that he doesnt care im on the floor like a blooming house guest. or dog.

anyway - i passed the last test so things may ease in a number of ways. financially we will be better off, and the pressure is off me at least temporarily. plus i have some job security and the prospect of a career.

i may well revert to the arse kicking one in our relationship and not mind. who knows. or it may piss me off more than before.

but i am pig sick of sleeping on the sodding floor so yes i will be making that appointment.

Congrats on passing your test!

I really believe that men don't listen to moaning. Remember when you left 15 years ago: that caused him to change, but moaning won't/hasn't.

I honestly think that his brain goes like this: "Vicar is sleeping on the floor. Vicar is still sleeping on the floor. Therefore, Vicar is not unhappy to sleep on the floor." He can't imagine you'd do something that you didn't want to do, if that makes sense.

So - stop moaning. Focus on his good bits. Get him to a doctor (lots of wives have to drag their DHs into surgeries, it's not that unusual) and stop doing things in this passive way.

Your DH just accepts a hell of a lot, doesn't he? The crappy job, unpleasant boss, unpaid overtime, the lousy wage, unsociable hours, permanent nights, the damage to his lungs, not so good health, etc, etc.

You said self worth isn't an issue, but it really doesn't sound like he esteems himself very highly tbh. Giving up jobhunting after one rejection? Turning down a good scholarship? Sits wheezing rather than make a GP appointment? That's a level of apathy I find worrying. It's hard to equate just as laziness - it seems beyond that imho. Maybe he feels iller than he's letting on, and most of his behaviour is linked to that and lethargy.

But you know him best, I'm not disagreeing with you, it was just my thought.

im sure he does feel fairly lousy most of the time, but HE wont change it or look to change it.

i have suggested a number of ways in which he could retrain in different areas and he pours cold water on them all. im not sure what more i can do tbh.

id make im sleep on the floor.

put a matress in living room that you can stick behind the setee or something.

thats another tool to add tot he 'dig your heels in' approach

but in the long run i would suggest counselling - if he wont do that - then a bone fide uninterupted - sit down at table ( not setee make it formal) chat.

my dh hates change. he was teravelling 180 miles a day as a commute. up with the birds tea then bed. he woulldn't leave until one day they ended his contract and he had to.

nothing i said or did changed it for two years.

he was always tired. i felt like a single parent. sex life dwindled. work is such a huge mahoosive part of your day that it does have an effect on family life.

my point is that despite advice given, if hes like my dh, he wont change inless forced to by employer. not a good prognosis sorry!

CONGRATULATIONS, Vicar!

Good luck with the rest of it.

Vicar, I feel really sorry for you both, it must be incredibly frustrating for you. If it is that he has low self-esteem, then he won't want to do anything to resolve the situation. Every detail you have added, such as the loner/no friends, does seem to fit the theory (in my mind) - the lethargy regarding changing every detrimental aspect of his life could be thoroughly overwhelming because that's just how it can affect you. Have you spoken to him about why he just puts up with long term negative features of his life?

I could accept that it was just laziness if it were one or two things, that didn't last too long; but it reads like a catalogue of misery for years, and it doesn't seem normal to accept such extensive trials for protracted periods of time.

Disclaimer: I don't know all the facts, and am not trying to state categorically that "this is how it is": I'm only making a suggestion based on the info you have chosen to mention. I am concerned about your DH, I can't believe that a normal individual without ishoos would calmly accept such a grotty deal. He sounds really nice imo, not surprised you don't want to give up on him.

Congratulations Vicar. Why don't you alternate who sleeps on the floor?