is it in men's nature to cheat?

[singledomisgood]

Hi, i'm usually a lurker on here but the subject of cheating on your partner has cropped up a lot on here. It makes me very angry that anyone can do this to another person for whatever reason/excuse.

The lies, deceit, hurt, disruption etc that's involved could all be prevented if the cheater either tries to face the problems in the relationship or decides to end it in a MATURE manner!

Anyway, I decided to google why do partners cheat and it came up constantly that men (not much there on women) can't help themselves as they are biologically programmed to spread their seed with as many women as possible. Goes back our caveman days etc. Lots of men seem to hark back to this excuse.

well my argument is then surely WOMEN should be cheating just as much as men as we are programmed to find the best male to impregnate us from puberty to menopause. As the best male would be the fittest, youngest bestlooking one then we should be dumping any partner over about the age of 25! In fact, men over that age would be surplus to requirements as their 'seed' would not be of the highest quality! And that includes George Clooney and Brad Pitt!

I don't mean to trivialise affairs but it just makes me so angry that this is so often seen as a reason to cheat as if it's not in their control. Yet other aspects of our biology are not applied eg hunting (Asda should only be frequented by male shoppers doing the weekly hunt!).

I wish this argument could just be dropped and people would be honest about why they cheat ie the flattery, escapism, thrill, selfishness towards partner etc.

What do you think?

No, bollocks.
It's in arsehole's nature to cheat. Not men's nature. At all.

Agree with SandyBits. The whole 'spreading of the seed' thing is a wonderful excuse that spineless fuckwits hide behind when they get caught. Oh, and there are plenty of irresponsible, feckless women too.

what about women that cheat then?

It's just bastards who regard their partners with contempt rather than with any love or respect that cheat - male or female

its much easier to cheat now tho isnt it?? we hear here on mn all the time about facebook/emails/dating websites/text and how they are used to betray partners.

Yes, I totally agree with you all.

But whenever I discuss this with other people that excuse always comes up. As if we are stuck in an evolutionary timewarp whereby
they cant help losing control. And that women have to accept this.

Anyone who cheats (male or female) are selfish bastards as far as I'm concerned.

Absolute rubbish - it is just bastards that cheat! My DP has never cheated on anyone & I 100% trust him.

I don't think it's easier actually tiffany. I think it gives those who would cheat anyway an easier excuse though

I don't buy the "biologically programmed" thing either. Due to the length of time it takes for human children to grow up, nature requires that we stay in our pair-bond for several years at least. Perhaps we're not particularly well suited to being in very long-term relationships though. Perhaps we're designed to be in a series of shorter-term bondings? If having multiple partners is in our natures, then why does it hurt so much when we find our partner cheating? I don't believe that's just social conditioning.

I think people cheat mostly because they're bored. With themselves, with their partners, with their lives, and the cheating is a quick-fix solution.

It's "in my nature" to eat but that does not mean I walk into a shop, grab food off the shelf and walk out. I get that you have to pay for things.

It's "in my nature" to urinate and defecate but this does not mean that I squat down wherever I please. I get that this would be unhygienic.

.... the list goes on.

As other posters have so eloquently put it fuckwits cheat (both genders are guilty, but I think men do have more opportunities).

Some people are unfaithful people and they can be men and they can be women.

Most people are not, actually, monogamous. The biggest problems arise in thus cult of compulsory lifelong monogamy which doesn't suit the majority of people. We would be far better off negotiating individual agreements, having short term relationships, co-parenting with people who are good co-parents and giving up this idea that anyone is entitled to own another person sexually - if you've got a monogamy fetish, find a likeminded monogamy fetishist to play with by all means, but let's stop pretending that monogamism is in any way superior to any other way of living.

I don't know that it's easier - easier to get found out though if you are going through these chains seeing as they all leave traces

No.

Anyone can cheat, whoever they are. I think it's a myth that some people are 'cheaters' and others are not.

It happens because, under the right (or wrong!) circumstances anyone can be weak enough or misguided enough to give into a temptation......or to think they want something else.

I agree that it causes a lot of hurt and destruction but for anyone in a relationship there is risk involved because you can't own someone or be 100% of what they will or won't do.

Actually I agree with SolidGoldBrass - monogamy isn't natural at all. I think we're conditioned to think it's what we should do.

"If having multiple partners is in our natures, then why does it hurt so much when we find our partner cheating?" - cheating isn't just about having sex with someone else, or about having multiple partners - it's about having sex with someone else and covering it up. Of course being lied to hurts, which then gets culturally mixed in with the idea that the only way to sleep with someone else is to inevitably lie about it. Sleeping with someone else = being lied to = being hurt.

SolidGoldBrass, my gf says your post is "excellent in all ways, apart from the use of the term monogamism."

(Although saying 'go find another monogamy fetishist' won't necesarrily help, as a lot of people who cheat do claim to be monogamous at the beginning.)

Hmm

I think that there are all different sorts of people, with different sorts of approaches.

And while I agree that our society is structured in such a way that monogamy is the norm... Or is it? People have always been unfaithful. All around the world. There aren't any societies where most people are actually monogamous are there? Society is actaully structed in the UK anyway that eveyone pretends to be faithful but loads of people actually aren't.

Anyway.

I find the idea that monogamy is unnatural or a fetish a bit odd. If it is natural for a person to want multiple partners at the same time, or a succession of different partners, and any other permutation that can be thought of, then why is it only the idea what someone might want one partner the only unnatural course. I assume that people who want no partners or are asexual are fine too, why just the poor old people who celebrate their diamond wedding anniversary with every genuine sign of joy singled out for disapprobation?

Froginajacuzzi, i will use your examples next time this subject comes up with friends!

I am not saying monogamy is right or wrong but surely it should be an agreement made by by both people in a relationship? Not one gets all the fun going out shagging while the other is busy holding the fort and gets the crap part of the deal (if they have even been informed of this). They should both get an equal part of the fun while the other sits at home babysitting and cleaning. but how can this be achieved without jealousy and resentment?

And the reason I am asking if its natural for men to cheat is that when i googled it this biological reason crops up all the time and there doesnt seem to be a similar argument in womens favour. as if by claiming men cant help it, then it gets rid of the aspect of responsibility to the partner and somehow it wipes out the guilt in causing pain, hurt let alone the lies and deceit involved.

Surely a cheat is a cheat, male or female, regardless of this cop our excuse.

What I think is that people should think more carefully before they make an agreement to be monogamous. The problem is that people don't consider it properly.

Another problem is that people are anxious to say to the other person that they want exclusivity because they want to own their partner and are jealous about the idea that they would have sex with anyone else, but they can't always adhere to that themselves.

Also, forgot to add, that if both sides agree to not be exclusive then they wouldnt be CHEATING!

Interestingly, most the men i have discussed this with would not accept their wives/girlfriends cheating on them as they would see this as being taken the piss out of, as well as being angry and hurt at being deceived.

The problem I have with monogamy is that I have genuinely loved two men at the same time but was not sleeping with them both. I think that many social constructs such as monogamy are designed to tame the wild excessess of nature such as spreading ones seed.
I do think it is natural for men to ''spread their seed'' but not an excuse for being a bastard. Some men are prfectly content to spread their seed with one women. Others are not.

Isn'tItFunToBeInDisguis, I don't see anything in SolidGoldBrass's post that says monogamy is unnatural or wrong, just that it shouldn't be seen as 'superior'.

I agree with you that any relationship should be negotiated, agreed on and have equality.

As for jealousy, this book goes into it in some detail. Sometimes it's a very complicated issue, other times it's not that hard to work through - it depends on the people in question, usually. (And I'm not saying being prone to jealousy is always bad, either. Depends on what you want.)

I think I can safely say that it is in men's nature to enjoy looking at other women, and to get turned on by thinking about having sex with others. But as another poster pointed out, we all have primal urges that we don't act upon whenever we feel the itch.

There are many men who don't act upon their instincts to copulate with any suitable female. The stats seem to vary according to the studies, but quite a large percentage of men don't have affairs or cheat in any other way.

Maybe a solution would be to have state-sanctioned, legal brothels where men could satisfy their "instincts" without damaging the structure of families. Just a thought! The government could use the extra tax revenues

I think it's a very difficult subject to make any generalisations about. Because you can't even say that it's an arsehole or a bastard that cheats. Because that doesn't account for the myriad circumstances and situations that greet people and the fallibity of man. An act of infidelity may not be excusable but there are situations where it may be explicable. It's a pretty huge mistake to make, one I hope neither myself nor my dh would, but I have seen dh at rock bottom, depressed and destructive. Fortunately, his way of coping wasn't to self-destruct in that direction but there was a time when I could not hold him accountable for his actions.

I did read once a piece of research (lord only knows how it was carried out and it's probably a biased load of old squit) that suggested 75% of men in exclusive relationships when offered no strings attached sex with a woman they desired, would do it. I hope that isn't true but I don't know. I wonder if they studied women too?

Biologically, there is a reason for women to cheat too. The theory is that the woman picks a solid, stable man who is a keeper to marry and have children with as that will provide long term security for her and her children. However, the choice for a woman may not necessarily be primarily based on sexual attraction (especially historically this may have been the case). However, for pure sexual attraction she may pick lovers. If she gets pregnant (pre DNA testing) there is always the husband there to bring up the children - even if they do all look suspiciously like the milkman! This must have happened a fair bit in the past when divorce was taboo and illigitimacy was considered shameful.

As always the double standards surrounding these types of situation work in favour of the man though. For intance if you read The Duchess, most of the aristos were married but also have lovers. If the husband's lover got pregnant the wife in general was expected to bring up the lover's children in her household where they would be introduced as the orphaned offspring of a distant cousin (or something). However if the wife got pregnant by her lover and and the husband found out (for instance he had been away for over 9 months so she couldn't pretend it was his) then, to save the cuckolded husband's embarrassment, the lover was expected to so the decent thing and marry her. If he did not then she would end up being a social outcast.

Double standards and hypocricy but a fascinating insight into 17th century morality (or lack of it)!

I agree that it's not just about having sex with someone else - it's about hiding things and lack of respect for your partner's wishes. I had an open relationship once and it worked fine, until my partner went against my wishes by sleeping with his ex-girlfriend, and by flirting with other girls when I was right there. Those two things did upset me and did feel like cheating, and I honestly didn't mind who he was seeing when I wasn't around as long as it was casual, and not meaningful sex (and as long as he was careful) Likewise I quite liked being able to go around snogging anyone that I wanted to without feeling guilty or worrying that he might find out/be upset, because I knew he wouldn't have been. I suppose that I was young, (was about 18 at the time) but I can see that it could work if both partners were clear on their boundaries and stuck to them. But I also know that to many people the idea of it is abhorrent.