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Original poster

so he thinks marriage is a waste of time but i dont?

74 replies

princessdaisyboo · 09/07/2010 11:39

me and dp have been together 3 years and have ds who is 20 months and i have dd from previous marriage who is 4.5.
We have both been married before, i would love to get married to dp but he is not really that keen, i think he would do it for me eventually but basically thinks its a waste of time, he says he has always thought this and didnt want to get married the first time and look at where that got him, his wife left him.
He really wants another baby which i have said yes to but i want to at least be engaged before this happens, he said yes he agrees with this, so im sort of waiting for him to pop the question but then last night we were talking about a friend of mine who is planning thier wedding and he said this thing about it being a waste of time.
Do you think a lot of men are like this and they just go along with it to keep the woman happy? Im not sure if i want to marry someone who thinks marrying me is a waste of time, or is just doing it to keep me happy? What do you think?
It has really upset me.

OP posts:
foureleven · 09/07/2010 14:20

Well, if princessdaisybo's DP wont have a joint account because his ex screwed him over that is very unfair and shows a lack of trust which could be why he doesnt want to marry princessdaisybo. If he really thinks she is as bad as his ex he shouldnt be with her at all.

However, it is not weird to not have a joint account with your partner. Married or not.

I agree that maybe it is the 'wedding' that your DP feels is a waste of time rather than the 'marriage' itself. Could that be the case?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/07/2010 14:49

"orangie, im not a very practical person so its much more about my feelings, but im a sahm, no income, no pension no savings, i rely totally on dp so yes i do want to get married to feel safe and secure and yes i suppose i do mean financially, dp says what do you think i wouldn't look after you? i said but what if you died, he got mad that i was talking about him dying and said his family would look after me and i can keep the house if i can pay the mortgage (what with - my comment), sort of joking but still a bit weird, but this is his guarded side coming out incase im just after his money (his ex stored money from thier joint account before leaving him) hence we do not have a joint account".

PrincessDB,

You are vulnerable legally as well as financially if he dies suddenly. Interesting to note too what this man said re his family presumably looking after OP on his demise (and he got mad too which is a bad sign) - I certainly would not be relying on his family at all to look after the OP, they could well cut her out and off in all sorts of ways (it does happen). She could very well lose the house. As his unmarried partner she is also legally vulnerable because she is not related to him in law and has no leg to stand on legally. If he dies she cannot have the widows weekly pension (on top of dealing with her own grief she could be dealing with all the financial stuff left behind as well), she cannot open letters of administration regarding his estate and she cannot choose a headstone.

Think your man needs to realise that a cohabitation split can be just as messy and complicated (if not more so) that a marital split. It won't be easier for him or you.

If its the wedding itself that he does not like why can't you and he go to the registry office?. He needs to take into a/c your very real and valid feelings on this matter.

Theyremybiscuits · 09/07/2010 15:03

Make sure your name is jointly on the deeds etc of the house.

Being married makes it 'easier' to organise somewhat if the worst happens.

My exP (we are in the middle of a divorce) always said if the worst happened and we split, he would make sure we were ok financially. Which was reassuring.

Fast forward 5 years, we are divorcing, I had to leave and take the kids and he 'refused to give us a penny'. It took quite some time to sort out csa payments from his salary, benefits, income support etc.

Don't believe them!

marantha · 09/07/2010 15:24

Theyremybiscuits, I agree that marriage itself is no guarantee of a just outcome, but at least the courts have to take into account "work" carried out as a sahm (a married couple declared officially they wished to be a couple so the courts have to take into account the relationship itself), with cohabitation the nature of what each partner "did" as regards childcare in the relationship is not even considered when it comes to property ownership.

What I'm trying to say that if marriage doesn't guarantee a just outcome, cohabitation stands even less of a chance.

foureleven · 09/07/2010 15:30

It must depend a lot on the amount of equity in the house and how wealthy the OPs DP is... If they dont own any of the house.. .or even owe money on it. And he's broke, does it really matter? All that she will get is Child maintenance which is the same regardless of marriage...

But yes, if you have no financial stability of your own, and has worked as a SAHM while he has been building a career and a nest egg, you need to cover yourself and marriage would be a good way to do that.

But something tells me about your OP that its not for a financial reason that you want to marry the guy.

Rugbylovingmum · 09/07/2010 15:42

Hi,

I can't really comment on the financial/legal aspects of marriage vs cohabiting (although I should really find out now DP and I have a DD) but I just wanted to say that DP and I aren't married and have no intention of ever marrying. We have been together for 14 very happy years, I love him very deeply and am absolutely certain that he is the person I want to be with forever and not wanting to marry him doesn't change any of that. If he wanted to get married and it was important to him then I would do it without hesitation BUT it would be purely for his benefit. I sort of agree with your DP that it's a waste of time and money and can't see how it would make us feel any more committed to each other. I see having DD together as much more of a commitment. I'm not saying other people shouldn't get married, if it means something to you then it's completely worth it, but I just wanted to say I don't think you should take DPs lack of interest in marrying you as reflection of his feeling for you, just his feeling about weddings.

Hope that ramble made sense .

Theyremybiscuits · 09/07/2010 15:47

Marantha, yes I believe you are correct.

I personally am quite relieved we married as I am also able to claim a portion of his future pensions for the childrens benefit.

marantha · 09/07/2010 15:57

Oh heck, I'm being a bit cynical here going on about legal and financial stuff.
Sorry, OP, but I'm afraid that's all marriage is to ME- a legal thing.

It's no guarantee of committment, everlasting love or emotional security, but it IS valuable should you split up or die.
Sorry that I can't see it in a more romantic light.

foureleven · 09/07/2010 16:03

Ah you old cynic marantha

I wouldnt want or need a bean off DP if we separated so I have a fuzzy romantic view of the whole thing and cant wait to be married, if he ever asks me!

MortaIWombat · 09/07/2010 16:24

I second Marantha. I don't think marriage guarantees commitment at all (though it does mean you can't just be chucked over on the grounds that "it was never that serious between us" ).
Mind you, I think I disagree with Rugbylovingmum, because I don't see having dc as symbolic of any big commitment either (not that I'm suggesting she isn't committed!). To me, having children suggests commitment to them, but not at all to the partner one had them with; after all, it is perfectly easy to co-parent whilst barely setting eyes on the other parent.

marantha · 09/07/2010 16:28

AwesomeWellies Your first sentence sums up my thoughts nicely.
And now I take me leave as I've nothing else to say.

Original poster
princessdaisyboo · 09/07/2010 16:32

our joint financial arrangements are zero, he already owned this house when i moved in so im not on mortgage, we dont have joint bank accounts, he just gives me money each week for shopping, doing things with kids, and if i want anything i have to ask for some more, but i really try not to do that! before ds i worked part time and paid for most of shopping and anything else i could, since becoming sahm i pay the telephone bill and broadband, thats it, i only get 140 child benefit and 40 a month tax credits so i cant do much else, and out of this i pay for all my dd clothes shoes etc, I was planning on returning to work in sept but now dp has said he really would like another baby soon as he is 42 in aug i may put that on hold for another couple of years and have another baby, which is were this whole topic of getting engaged has rose from as i said i will only have another baby if he asks me to marry him first! and im gonna stick to my guns on it for all the reasons you have helped me see are very good reasons, ie for the children for financial security and because it feels right to me!

thanks everyone, really good advice gained today x

OP posts:
foureleven · 09/07/2010 16:49

Oh.... this isnt good. Im sorry to say but if he walked away tomorrow you would have just 15% of his take home salary which will be reduced according to how many days he has the children.. He will have a house, and his career intact.

I think after being with him for that length of time you deserve to walk away with some of the house even if he bought it before you came on the scene.

I think he is safeguarding his investments if I am brutaly honest.

I personally dont see why the condition of getting pregnant again is that he 'ask you to marry him' because you wont be any more secure... he needs to have actually married you.

If he wont marry you, but you want to stay with him, you need to get yourself back to work and build something up before you start thinking about having a second baby IM(probably very harsh)O. You need to provide for yourself as it sounds like this guy isnt going to do it.. At least not commit to doing it.

Original poster
princessdaisyboo · 09/07/2010 16:53

i know that marriage doesnt mean life long commitment and happy ever after, and i know some people are happy just staying as they are and not getting married (wish i could be like that)but i just want us to eventually get married,

its not for financial reasons its just for love really, i cant explain it better and i know im being all soft and romantic,
i know i wouldnt have a leg to stand on if we split or if he died and i would have to manage on my own somehow, im not in this for the money at all i just hope he realises that too, but he is very private and guarded on the moneyside which i find quite insulting as i am trustworthy and im very sensible with money, he just isnt ready to share his fully!!

i have said if we moved would my name go on the mortgage too but he really avoids this and at the moment i dont think it would. which hurts.

but surely if we get engaged like he has said we will and have another baby he is going to have to take down his barriers and let me in and realise that i am not his ex wife and that i am not out to hurt him or rip him off x

OP posts:
Original poster
princessdaisyboo · 09/07/2010 16:57

plus i really dont think we are going to split up, we are really happy just have some past issues to iron out , his divorce only came through a couple of months ago so he is not going to get married to me straight away no matter how small and private i can make it!

OP posts:
foureleven · 09/07/2010 16:57

Oh princessdaisyboo, what a predicament!

I do understand the gushy love bit, I day dream about being married constantly.

I understand you aren't in it for the money and thats exactly how it should be... but realistically you do need, and deserve financial stability and it doesnt seem like he respects that?

You are right he needs to forget about his ex wife and think about you. Presumably he thinks youre a decent person if he is willing to procreate with you

foureleven · 09/07/2010 16:59

Oh, if his divorce has only just come through maybe give him a little time. Maybe he is protecting himself a bit too as im assuming the divorce process was pretty drawn out and painful if its only just completed.

p.s you dont call yourself princessdaisyboo around the house do you..? Maybe thats why he wont marry you joke.

Original poster
princessdaisyboo · 09/07/2010 17:09

yeah maybe im rushing it a bit, i cant exactly sit him down tonight and tell him all my new found reasons we should be married instantly are to do with if he leaves me or dies how much of his money and house do i get to keep, he will run a mile!!!
he will come round in time, ill just have to keep prooving to him that i am decent and not after half his empire!!!!

iNo i dont use that name at home, my real name is as plain as u can get!!! haha

Rugbylovingmum, I like your story and your right, it doesnt really reflect his feeling for me, just his feelings on marriage, thanks for reminding me of that x

OP posts:
Orangerie · 09/07/2010 17:29

"he is very private and guarded on the moneyside which i find quite insulting as i am trustworthy and im very sensible with money, he just isnt ready to share his fully!!"

This doesn't sound good at all, if he doesn't even trust you how on Earth can you trust him as to have yet another child with him?

TBH I think that I would be considering Relate instead of marriage at this point...

sunny2010 · 09/07/2010 17:39

My husband says why would a man not marry a woman he loves? He always says that about other friends he knows and says as they dont want to get married they are just waiting for better options. I think when a man meets the right woman he is very keen to get married to her. I dont mean it to sound horrible but I do agree with that as well. I dont understand why someone would have a child with you, know you want to get married and not want it to?

EnglandAllenPoe · 09/07/2010 17:42

i don't think you are 'rushing it'

you have a child together, he wants you to have another one.

what's his reason for not getting married? Worried about the committment ??

i would be very cautious - i think that although marriage does not equal committment, not being willing to get married can point to a conspicuous lack of committment. which is seemingly confirmed by his unwillingness to share financial info/control.

sunny2010 · 09/07/2010 17:46

I definitely dont think you are rushing it if you already had a child with him.Personally I would never have a child with someone I wasnt married to so I definitely dont think you are asking for too much

lisasimpson · 09/07/2010 18:23

I think he wants you to have another baby now to stop you going back to work and being independent. I don't think he will be any less 'guarded' if you get engaged and have another child.

Original poster
princessdaisyboo · 09/07/2010 19:42

his reasons for not getting married yet are that he has only just got divorced and because in his last realationship everything was ok until they got married and then everthing started to go wrong, he is scared.
i have spoken to him tonight about it and also pointed out the practical and financial side, and he said " how do you know that i havent already made a will"? meaning to make sure me and the kids are looked after if he dies? he would not say for definate if he has or hasnt.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 09/07/2010 19:44

A man who is guarded with his money is also guarded with his love IMO.

I don't understand how a man can see a woman who has his child is in a vulnerable position financially and does nothing to make provisions for both of them, especially if she has made it clear she would like to get married.

Whether he realises it at all, he has got one foot in the exit door.

Sorry OP if that is not what you want to hear. If I were you, I would not have another child with this man. I would make financial provisions for myself and child by getting a job.