Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

can we talk about intimacy for a bit......?

27 replies

sexmad · 07/07/2010 19:47

i'm in need of help. have been seeing a fantastic chap for a while, he's v big on intimacy & the whole 'you don't have to have penetrative sex' to be intimate.

but i'm struggling a bit - as previous partners have been rather abusive, to the point of me in essence doing the sex thing to feel close to to them (well XH tbh as he was as closed as a book emotionally, but was still mentally/emotionally/physically abusive)

I have a really good sex life with chappy, and am extremely happy, but i'm struggling to get my head around the intimacy thing - it's like after so long I don't know how to do it.

we look into each other's eyes when talking, are a very touchy feely couple. Have a giggle in general take baths & stuff together.

am I just incapable of intimacy or is it just where it scares the hell out of me? how does one do intimacy? know I prob shouldn't be asking and it's a general ramble but really am curious.

OP posts:
PortiaNovmerriment · 07/07/2010 19:50

What do you feel you are doing wrong? It sounds fine to me.

sexmad · 07/07/2010 19:52

I don't quite know tbh - sort of an inability let someone get close emotionally, so to do it sexually is more damaging yes but easier for me to do - bit screwed up really after XH I think.

just don't know what defines it it's like an alien word to me.

OP posts:
nagoo · 07/07/2010 20:00

Agree with portia....

everything looks ok from here?

nagoo · 07/07/2010 20:02

Do you trust him? Tell him what is on your mind? Are you honest about your feelings?

sexmad · 07/07/2010 20:06

yes 110% nag, I have told him about it - but then he feels guilty and just says he has to try harder - when tbh the problem is with me, not him. He's very understanding though and says he'll take as much time as I need. think it's more me pushing myself.

OP posts:
nagoo · 07/07/2010 20:23

what do you want to achieve then?

AnyFucker · 07/07/2010 20:34

yep, everything looks ok to me too

maybe you need to just need to keep on doing it and it will start to come more naturally ??

I can see you might be a bit messed up emotionally, but it sounds like he could be a good bet to help you along the way to more recovery...

ItsGraceActually · 07/07/2010 20:46

I'm not sure what's going on here? Are you saying you're having sex but without penetration? Are you saying he wants something from the relationship, which you seem unable to provide?

Please de-confuse me, because my alarm bells are ringing ...

lazarusb · 07/07/2010 21:25

How long ago was your last abusive relationship? Do you like/ care for/ love him? How do you feel about yourself? You actually appear to be very intimate from your post, took me months to get to that stage with dh.

sexmad · 08/07/2010 08:20

laz - it was 3 years ago this year, we were together from 17 for 8.5 years and still have an 'odd' situation. the new chap do you mean? he means the world to me - I can see myself growing very old & wrinkly with him.

grace - alarm bells? I have an alter ego for the relationships boards (mostly as it's a sexual nature I ask about and SIL is on the boards.) have been about since 2005 however. no we do all sorts in the bedroom area - however it's him saying we don't need to have full sex to show intimacy - but for me I don't feel close to someone and it's sort of a rejection if that makes sense if we don't. totally irrational as it's not at all. as I say my issue not his.

AF - yes I have been very messed up with a very warped sense of the world. scarey thing is he understands and actually said it's fine, it's ok, and it would appear that the abuse from XH has gone a lot deeper than I initially thought.

i'm not sure what i'm asking - maybe it is a case of keeping doing the same thing and seeing how it goes. All I know is after so long with a man who was physical when it suited him but not intimate at all it's hard for me to realise that you don't need full penetrative sex to show you care/have emotion from a partner.

quite sad really. it gets easier though doesn't it?

OP posts:
DONTtouchMUMMYSpecialJUICE · 08/07/2010 15:24

is he denying you full sex till you are more comfortable with intimate bits which i am assuming is foreplay things?

he should really still be doing the bits you like and find comfortable with and associate with closeness. i.e full penetrative, while building up the bits you feel uncomfortable with that is obviously what he enjoys.

for example.. many people struggle with receiving oral. it wouldn't be right for their partner to ban everything else and insist they enjoy being intimate through oral only iykwim?

fwiw i dont find all that lovey dovey staring into eyes and sharing baths intimate. thats something which makes me incredibly awkward.

for me, i prefer my intimacy to be wrapped around each other on sofa. running my bath.. but then just sitting beside me talking etc.

someone making me a candlelit dinner is hell for me.

however, both of you in the kitchen using the small space together helping each other make things and letting each other taste off your spoon as it is being prepared "here, try this sauce" type of thing is far more intimate.

DONTtouchMUMMYSpecialJUICE · 08/07/2010 15:25

what i'm saying is you need to find out what you find is intimate

mamsnet · 08/07/2010 15:27

I'm not too sure if I'm on the right track here but I think it sounds like you're just growing into the everyday stuff.. somebody just mentioned sharing a spoon.. It's true that these things can be the ones where we find it hardest to let our guard down..

Are you happy with just being you when you're together? Do you still feel like you have to be glammed up or can you just lie around in your pjs on a sunday morning reading the papers..

Relax.. it sounds like something good!

sexmad · 08/07/2010 15:45

don't touch - no he's not denying it- he's just saying we don't have to do it everytime. I do struggle with oral but am fine with him doing it.

thing is we do do the dinners, the spooning at bed time the sitting on the loo holding hands walking arm in arm. and yes you're right the cooking together we enjoy - well, I cook he comes up behind me and hugs in to pinch the food

mam - yes you're probably right, the transition stage as it were. A lack of guard isn't something I find easy at all. When we're together we're very happy, & try to have at least one night a week away from the house, kids & all daily life to just be us, but no tbh thats the only time I get glammed up - otherwise i'm scummy (or yummy) mummy mode as he puts it, or pj's - prob should make an effort thou tbh around the house more.

it is good - bit too good.

OP posts:
sexmad · 08/07/2010 15:47

sorry I meant sitting on the loo talking while the other's bathing and holding hands walking along out and about - not sitting on the loo at the same time holding hands.

OP posts:
DONTtouchMUMMYSpecialJUICE · 08/07/2010 15:58

sexmad - aww enjoy. it is odd getting used to it at first. but you dont have to let your guard down. feel free to keep it up and let him peek over the fence every once in a while if that what it takes for you to be comfortable so early on in the relationship

RumourOfAHurricane · 08/07/2010 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Sithmummy · 08/07/2010 16:08

It sounds like you've found a very caring man, there.

Also sounds like your exh has done a lot of damage and this will take time to get over.

My DH has real trouble separating sex from love. It doesn't matter how many times I explain that picking up his dirty socks, or cooking his favourite meal shows my love for him. If we go a week without sex, he feels that I don't love him anymore and gets really low. I then feel resentful that he doesn't notice all the other stuff I do for him, and guilty that he feels unloved. DH knows he's wrong but just can't stop equating the two.

From your posts I wonder if your ex has made you feel that this is normal, ie, you want to show your feelings for new man and therefore must have sex to prove it?

DONTtouchMUMMYSpecialJUICE · 08/07/2010 16:31

shiney - i'm with you on the massages.i really do not want to get naked and let someone rub my flabby excess skin in variation unflattering directions with oil unless i am paying them and i never need to see them again

however, rubbing a partners back and shoulders absentmindly while curled up on sofa entwined watching a dvd i like

RumourOfAHurricane · 08/07/2010 16:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ItsGraceActually · 08/07/2010 19:06

Thanks, sexmad Am much relieved!

Yep, it's understandable that your 'intimacy muscles' would be a bit knotted after previous experiences. I think I might understand what you mean ...? I used to be quite sexually voracious - hungry, in a way, for the barriers to go down as they did (or so I felt) during sex. It was somehow tied up with the all-or-nothing drama of an abusive relationship.

I still feel a resistance to "mindfulness" but it is, in fact, what I've been learning since deciding to get off the rollercoaster. It's about slowing right down & appreciating what's happening right here, right now, one nanosecond at a time If you've ever done meditation - it's pretty much the same thing. I also find Pilates classes helpful this way.

Feel completely free to ignore the above if it doesn't have any relevance to you

Wordweaver · 08/07/2010 19:32

Don't know if this will help but this is my DP's take on sex and intimacy. (He thinks much the same way as your partner, btw.)

He says that he's been in relationships in the past where, because they weren't really suited or working as a couple, sex was THE way of being intimate.

It was in a way like sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la - our relationship must be ok because look, we are having great sex and that proves we are intimate, so everything is fine . . ."

Since we've been together I think we've both learned something completely new about what intimacy is. That it can be, as you said, cooking together, catching each other's eye, even sharing a favourite film. Sex is just one way of being intimate.

Perhaps being intimate with someone is kind of like standing side by side, holding hands and coming at things from the same direction.

It's a word that has a lot of sexual connotations, but actually I think you can be intimate with friends, with family . . .

Hmm, and thinking about it, perhaps it's also the fact that when it's a healthy partnership, you are having a relationship with the person INSIDE, not the physical body.

If you are in love with the person inside first and foremost, then the body is a secondary thing - it's - oh I don't know like the colour of the car you buy. It's great if you're crazy about the colour of the car, but it's the quality of the engine that really matters.

I guess all I want to say is that it sounds to me as if you are doing just fine on the intimacy front, going by what I see intimacy as being. He sounds lovely.

Perhaps there should be a different word for intimacy, to get away from the sex thing.

So do you feel these things with him:

Closeness
Affinity
Rapport
Attachment
Warmth
Friendliness

Because that's all intimacy, isn't it?

ItsGraceActually · 08/07/2010 20:06

Loving your thesaural (made-up word) ramble, WW

Agree more than 99% about "intimacy" being too overlaid with sex in our language - and about loving the inner person / carburettor!

I read a piece in today's Femail about the author's best friend, who recently died. As she says, we feel love & intimacy with our close friends, as well as with partners. Sometimes our ideas about sexual relationships become very focussed on the sexual aspect, when real depth & connection come from the other stuff - all your synonyms, above.

sexmad · 08/07/2010 20:36

wow - thanks ladies, as always you speak total sense. I guess we are more intimate than I initially thought.

sith - yes that pretty much sums up my logic tbh - the little stuff I do that they might not understand shows I love them, however I am unable to think of intimacy as being anything other than sex - and like wise it's the best way I know how to show I love someone. Being the other side of it how do you find it when your DH is unable to separate the two?

grace yes I have and am big on meditation - I do get the sex thing as well - during a discussion we were having he said 'it's almost like every time you have to push the levels a little more and top what we've done before so you feel close to me' was a little well, stopped in my tracks at the time, but it's true in many ways.

WW - wow, that makes a lot of sense, thank you for your ramble lol. fwiw, he's a beautiful caring person inside. soft as anything, but more than that, he's got the build for me to feel safe 110%. The total opposite to my usual pretty boy types.
love the analergy btw.

OP posts:
Sithmummy · 09/07/2010 11:15

sexmad Dh and I have had a chat about this. He is a bit concerned that I have made him sound like some sort of neanderthal.

In our relationship, DH is the talker. He feels that knowing me comes from understanding my thoughts and feelings. I am less talky and more casually demonstrative. An example would be the other night after ds1's induction day, Dh asked loads of questions (where is your classroom? Who will be with you? etc etc) Whereas I sat next to DS while he was watching tv, stroking his arm/hair and offering an occaisional 'hmm' or 'really' while he drivelled on about his day.

For me, casual intimacy shows my feelings but DH finds that difficult, he rarely kisses the children other than hello or good-bye, and I've never seen him hug his mum. Neither of us grew up in touchy-feely homes so I'm not sure why we are so different in this.

When it comes to having sex as proof of love, Dh says that he could have sexual gratification either by finding a willing female/going to a prostitute/masturbating, but he doesn't want to. He wants to have sex with me. If I'm not in the mood, even though he knows there could be 101 reasons, he feels that I am rejecting him not only physically/sexually but also emotionally. I feel he doesn't care if he does something like make a coffee for himself without asking me if I want one.

I will admit that at times over the last 13 years the conflict between sex and intimacy has been difficult, especially when the babies were small and I craved affection from him but was not interested in sex. I felt that I was 'leading him on' and he felt that he had been usurped by these little things taking all my love. I think we got ourselves into knots with him feeling that he was unfairly pushing me to respond to him sexually and me feeling guilty for rejecting him. Luckily for us, we have always muddled through, but it has taken a lot of talking and some real work to understand each-others way of thinking and being.

Does this make any sense? I should have got DH to write to you he's much better at verbalising things!

Funny you should mention your new chap's build. DH is physically quite imposing and very able in all things practical. He is also probably the most sensitive, caring man I know. He says that because he never had to prove himself with his peers (getting into fights etc) he had time to develop the more 'feminine' skills of talking and listening, and he prefers female company to the competitiveness of men.