men who leave for ow and become alcholics?

[Mummiehunnie]

I was chatting to someone who knows a man who left wife for ow and became an alcholic, like my ex, it got me thinking (as having to deal with him for finances at mo), as that woman friend was telling me about sounds the same as ex's woman, and I wonder if they keep the man sedated in drink to get what they want, as these two women seem to both get what they want from the men, and keep them in fantasy land and not work out what is going on, and the women then act like victims of the men, and in reality it is a codependant abusive relationship? ie he drinks and lashes out at her and shouts at her about him having no money as it is all spent on her, and her crying and her sedating him with drink to leech off him, and punishing him for drinking with spending his money etc....

weird I know, just that man the friend knows and my ex were not alcholic's before, however my ex was heavy social drinker before, and was depressed and controlling before as was the man friend knows, so the potential was there all along!

just wondered, as if that is the case, I think I can live with the consequences of his and her relationship having damaged mine and kids lives a bit easier now!

Um, I don't think anyone can 'make' someone else an alcoholic in order to 'sedate them'. I don't think it's a particularly sound theory.

What do you consider to be the difference between a "heavy social drinker" and an "alcoholic"?

Sorry but these men are already alcoholic tosspots. The 'worst' the OWs might be guilty of is being alcoholic losers themselves, who seem more appealing because they are more enabling of the alcoholism.

Indeed. Someone described as "depressed, controlling" and a "heavy social drinker" sounds like someone with a significant drink problem already. People with alcohol problems often look out for other heavy drinkers as that way they know they won't get any hassle for being pissed half the time.

Same as SGB. You cant make someone an alcky. I know from bitter experience that it is already in them, waiting to come out.And it rears its head when they find a suitable drink partner which is usually the OW, not that she will necessarily have a drink problem when she meets him but, probably ends up with one when he leaves her and moves on to the next drinking buddy!! Notice how they never can entice their real life male friends to participate in these drinking sessions? thats cos when the OW is pissed he is more likely to beable to get her into bed. Dont blame the other woman for his drink dependancy. It was already there.

wow, this is a novel and unexpected way to blame the ow

op, well done on being rid of him. He does not sound like ideal husband/father material

Have yet to meet any alcoholic - and I know a lot of alcoholics - who "bacame" an alcoholic later than 25 (I mean, my view is that the damage is already done long before then, sometimes in the first couple of years of drinking; but I'm playing safe and going on the observable facts and, where relevant, their own self-assessment.)

Cannot imagine how you would go about "making" someone an alcoholic. The whole point of being a non-alcoholic is that one has the power of choice over whether to drink. So why wouldn't they just choose not to drink too much?

MIFLAW that is very interesting.

Earlier this week I spent time with a friend aged 42 who has just undergone librium detox, very successfully so far (about ten days in) . He told me his life story and he was almost teetotal till he was about30. He freely calls himself an alcoholic . Over the past 7 years his intake crept up to up to 3 bottles of wine every day.

I am not saying this to be in any way confrontational, I was genuinely surprised too when he told me this, I fully expected him to tell me he started at the same time as his paper round, aged 13!

Why do you think it is rare for people to "become" alcoholics after 25? What do you think of my friend's story?

PS I always read and appreciate your posts

I think that your friend probably had a bloody good reason for being teetotal till he was 30 ...

Drunks in the family? Early bad experiences with drink which caused him to pack it in at 18?

My own personal opinion is that most people who turn out to be alcoholic have a lot of what can loosely be described as "alcoholic" behaviour long before they pick up a drink, anyway.

Or, of course, he could just be unique (most alkies believe this about themselves, even when it isn't true!)

spot on MIFLAW
His mother died of alcoholism.He was involved in an anti alcohol religious group till about 30

HE DEF BELIEVES HE IS UNIQUE - actually IS pretty damn special .

Can you tell me more about alcoholic behaviour?

Feeling you're different from everyone else

Feeling you don't fit in

Being aware of faking emotions that appear to come naturally to others

Prioritising doing what you perceive others want you to do/be

Wanting to control everything and feeling nervous when you can't

Being very "all or nothing", including (but not solely) with regards to drink

Sense of entitlement in life

Unwillingness to take responsibility or blame

Of course, all of these behaviours are also prevalent in ordinary children and teenagers. In many alcoholics, though, they seem to fly in the face of logic, and to last long after it is "normal". Also, of course, they get exacerbated when the individual does start drinking.

To summarise, of course, the phrases "overgrown child" or "bloody nuisance" fit quite well ...

Or, as AA has it, "an egomaniac with an inferiority complex"

VERY interesting, especially the summary

Thanks for the above posts, all very interesting. For once, I am defending the OW. Addictive behaviour has to be already there doesnt it? I know someone with a big problem, never touches it at home but when he gets the chance he goes on huge benders with his lady friends. They see it as dates, Im sure he sees it as an excuse to get blind drunk!!

Just out of interest, kittya, are his "lady friends" younger than he is?

Nothing like a younger woman to put up with more shit than someone your own age and to explain hagard looks away as "interesting" and "lived in"!

Of course they bloody are!!! Last time I saw him he looked bloody 60!! Ive seen him sober and he is handsome in the way you describe but then Ive seen him in the middle of the day in the corner of a pub doing his crossword and he's looked older than my father. They are usually about 15-20 years younger then him. Single and carefree with no school runs to do or crappy housework. I sometimes wonder if he can still perform, I remember in the bad old days it never quashed his libido but i like to think now it must be having some effect!!

Ah ... a trip down Memory Lane for me there.

And so to bed.

Speak tomorrow, maybe?

S

Yes, I dont like been up at this time of night. Sleep well!

kittya, your friend sounds like my dad about 20 years ago. Utterly charming, never without a woman around, a regular at his local - indeed, a regular at more than one local - and a supremely self-centered, unreliable alcoholic. These days he's little more than the self-centered unreliable alcoholic bit.

I would slightly take issue with MIFLAW's suggestion that people who feel they don't fit in or are different must be alcoholics. It depends what kind of people one is surrounded by. And being different is not necessarily a bad thing. I do loathe the increasing emphasis on conformity of the past 20 years or so, not just conformity of behaviour but conformity of thought.

SGB

Fair point but I would hope we both know that I am not talking about those situations nor extolling conformity. I am still a very non-conformist person, as are most people in AA - you will certainly find there is no dress code if you attend a meeting!

If I am in France, surrounded by French people, then of course I will feel different.

If they are all women, or black, my difference will be even more obvious.

But if I am in my own family - or, for that matter, in an AA meeting when I have been a practising heavy drinker for some time - and I still feel like the odd one out, wondering why everyone seems to know something I don't or see things differnetly to me or be looking at me - then the odds are that I am wrong, wouldn't you agree?

And of course being different is not a bad thing - it can be fantastic and vital, as long as you are happy to be different. But the classic alcoholic profile I am trying to describe desperately wants to fit in and conform but feels unable to. This tends to make him or her feel very sad and lonely and paranoid, and ultimately self-pitying.

I do take your point but I feel you have taken my words out of context and rather manipulated them. My point was that an alcoholic will often exhibit a range of those views and behaviours and will do so in situations where it is not immediately obvious or "reasonable" (in a literal sense) to do so.

Fair enough MIFLAW. It's just one of those things that generally annoys me - the way in which people who feel different or seperate (or, OK, better than those around them) are so often told that they are wrong, they are NOT special and should shut up and conform.
There are some people who are particularly special and different (not talking indigo children or any other crap) - without them we wouldn't have great art, great music, social revolutions or scientific discoveries. And the urge to 'fit in' isn;t always a good one.

Oh, I love that.

The OW is so desperate, she is sedating the man and making him an alcoholic... OKKKAAYYY

But well done on putting all the blame on OW and not looking at yourself or your Ex at all in the deminse of your relationship

SGB rest assured I still feel different from the majority of people I meet - and, indeed, better than many of them.

However, unlike before, this is based on facts rather than dreams (I am neither the best nor the worst person in the world) is tempered by humility (i.e. I may be better at some things but I have my faults too) and, most important of all, doesn't make me unhappy (I feel different rather than feeling a freak) and I am still able to function in society; I am not obliged to fit into society, but nor is society obliged to fit around me.

It is also a deeply held conviction of mine that, for every one person woh is genuinely special and different, there are at least a hundred who think they are special and different but are, in fact, just bloody nuisances and foppish, shallow cretins.

For every Oscar Wilde, a hundred Pete fucking Dochertys ...