men who leave for ow and become alcholics?

[Mummiehunnie]

I was chatting to someone who knows a man who left wife for ow and became an alcholic, like my ex, it got me thinking (as having to deal with him for finances at mo), as that woman friend was telling me about sounds the same as ex's woman, and I wonder if they keep the man sedated in drink to get what they want, as these two women seem to both get what they want from the men, and keep them in fantasy land and not work out what is going on, and the women then act like victims of the men, and in reality it is a codependant abusive relationship? ie he drinks and lashes out at her and shouts at her about him having no money as it is all spent on her, and her crying and her sedating him with drink to leech off him, and punishing him for drinking with spending his money etc....

weird I know, just that man the friend knows and my ex were not alcholic's before, however my ex was heavy social drinker before, and was depressed and controlling before as was the man friend knows, so the potential was there all along!

just wondered, as if that is the case, I think I can live with the consequences of his and her relationship having damaged mine and kids lives a bit easier now!

MIFLAW, i like that last quote, i may steal it with your permission?

the only thing I can add tho this is that what has pretty much been described here is the behavior of one of my best friends ex-partners and father of her children. When they met he was 24 and he was actually quite sweet, pretty clever, a bit of a stoner and liked a drink but no more than the rest of us. But even then he had a 5 pint limit and he would under go a personality change and become quite verbally aggressive and letchy after this point. This behaviour became more pronounced as he got older, he would go missing in binges for days, blame her for ruining his life by getting pregnant, ('I could have been someone') when actually he was a total loser in his own right. He ultimately went off with someone much younger, who actually had the cheek to call round to my friends after they had split up and ask her why she hadn't warned her about him!!! The list of horrendous things he has done is too long to go into (like bullying his daughter while she visited the house of his new girlfriend) but her youngest is going to turn 18 next year and she will finally have to have nothing more to do with him. Not really sure what the point is I'm trying to make except that I have never understood how he could justify his behavior to himself, and this has made me understand a little better. Although doesn't change the fact I think he's a twat.

After 18 years he's still the same? do they end up sad lonely old men then? My father has never chanced, except now he does his drinking on the other side of the world, where people darent say no to him.

changed

Nobody can force someone to be permanently drunk unless a funnel is involved

Steal away

kittya was that question to me? If so then yes he's still the same if not worse. Part of me thinks its so sad, because he really was quite nice when we all first met and he could have been a great person and my friend thought he was wonderful for the first few years. On the other hand, he is the only person on this planet I can say I actually hate, for what he has put them thru. You know what the kids got for their birthdays this year? A card with a £1 scratch card inside. Its not like he's unemployed and really skint, he has managed to hold down a job (so far). His daughter no longer sees him and i dont think his son is far behind.

what an interesting thread this turned into, thanks for the feedback!

There is a psychological game called "alcholic" and that is why some people can be dependant with various partners and not with others, you need all the various parts to be played by one or more people, when I was with my ex I did not play a part in it, hence why there was no dependancy on alcohol going on, he was going out once a week with mates and drinking and that was it, as once we had the children I have not had much to drink, so socially he had no one to drink with when with me!

I actually pity the acholic as they often get the blame for it, when it is about them and the partner they are with that causes it!

Apparently in AA as long as the recovering alcholics have someone to help recover they can stay sobar, however when all are sobar, someone will fall off the wagon, it is really interesting, how it all works, having said that the game says that without dealing with the game, aa is the best next thing!

I said this at the beginning and I will defend the OW on this one. He was probably a charmer who liked a drink, we've all known one. OW probably thought she was out on dates with him and all he was doing all along was using her as a drinking buddy. She was available to go on these benders with him. It happens. Dont blame her for making him drink more. He did it all by himself.

"I actually pity the acholic as they often get the blame for it, when it is about them and the partner they are with that causes it!"

Piffle. I'll readily admit that there can easily be an unhealthy dynamic going on between an alcoholic and a partner. That builds up over time, not least because the non-drinker starts off believing the alcoholic when they say "It'll never happen again" (which is not true) or even "I wouldn't drink if you didn't nag!" (which isn't true either). But the partner is not a cause of the alcoholism any more than a partner is the "cause" of someone choosing to smoke.

An alcoholic will drink for his or her own reasons. Look at the (vast) number of alcoholics who split up with their partners because of the damage caused to the relationship by their drinking and then, guess what, they carry on drinking!

"Apparently in AA as long as the recovering alcholics have someone to help recover they can stay sobar, however when all are sobar, someone will fall off the wagon"

This is nonsense.

That theory (not exact words) comes from Eric Berne, interesting read, you may want to tell him how you feel about the theory, it makes sense to many people, including me!

Just want to add, the theory of the game Alcholic, not the theory me and another were discussing, of the particular ow who got with the two men we know!

I'd happily tell him it if I had the slightest clue who he was or on what authority he spoke for AA.

The theory falls down in that, in AA (I am talking now about AA as it actually is, rather than AA as a theory of someone I have never heard of) sobriety is seen as an ongoing thing rather than an "on/off" state like a switch.

Once everyone is sober (though they never are) we help each other maintain that sobriety.

So the posited "end game" is never reached.

Hence, nonsense.

I spotted that your description of what goes on in AA comes from Transactional Analysis.

"Games People Play" is an excellent and enlightening read. I have learnt a lot from it and from TA in general. My own opinion is that it's not 100% accurate, though, and Berne's views on alcoholism/addiction, in particular, are way off the mark.

If I recall correctly, Berne suggests that the payoff for alcoholics/addicts comes not from the effects of the drug, or even from the anticipation of how that drug will make them feel, but from the self-flagellation and/or self-pity and/or castigation from others that occurs afterwards, when they're coming down.

Nah, sorry, I don't buy that. I was addicted to nicotine for 15 years and I've been around enough to see quite a lot of addictive behaviours. My opinion is that the pay-off of drug addiction is the anticipation of how good that drug will make you feel, mixed with the fear of how awful/boring life would be without it. But addictive drugs are addictive because of their neurochemical effects; sooner or later the brain starts to believe that it needs that drug, which is where the compulsion starts to kick in. I think this page explains what's going on very well.

mummiehunnie - It makes sense to you, because it fits with your theory that neither you or your ex partner are to blame for any of the the problems that now exist in your life / relationship.

It is all, solely the doing of the OW. She has MADE your ex an alcoholic (presumably she made him shag her too... )

it makes sense to you, because you want it to be true. Cos if this is true, you don't need to look at your Ex or, perhaps, yourself.

But, you know, deep down. It's not true.

There is also certain patterns of language that are used in games also, Harimo, you may be very interested in reading about it! I could not agree more with you regarding we should all take responsibility for our actions etc. You sound like you have some Anger and control issues, good luck to you!

"You sound like you have some Anger and control issues, good luck to you!"

Who is this aimed at? Have read all the responses to your mention of games theory and cannot see a single one whose author lacks (in any sane interpretaion of the word) "control". Similarly, if any one of these matches your definition of "angry" you are in for a shock in the outside world ...

My mistake - not games theory but TA.

Harimo!

I've never said this before, but needs must, Mummiehunnie - You are talking out of your arse so please piss off and don't even THINK about making this about MY issues.

Take a good long look at yourself before you start projecting whatever it is going on in your head on me.

FFS!