Do we give up too easily on marriage these days?

[lostlilly]

some of you may have reads my threads a few weeks ago but had some problems with DH last 12-18 months and have been seriously considering leaving. we have been 'separated' for last few weeks, living in same house as cannot afford to leave but separate rooms and really not much time 'together' at all. I have been missing him alot and suprised at how affectionate we were without me realising it and dd absolutely adores him, he IS a good dad. This morning he said I need to 'grow up and work though this instead of walking away and ripping ours and dd's world apart'

^Really* Sunny?

Men work harder?

So all that time I was running 2 jobs so Dh could complete a traineeship it was he who was working harder.

A revelation

My parents have been married for 50 years and whilst they have been very happy, never argue and are extremely close I sort of see them in a bubble ie neither of them have grown much as people but they are happy with that so good luck to them.

Their expectations of life in general are pretty low extremely unselfish and different to mine. In terms of their parenting they don't self reflect or analyse like I do.

I am beginning to think like PSM actually that marriage is possibly becoming a bit quaint. Mainly due to my own experience and those of my friends and acquaintances.

I think it would be great to find someone who would truly stick up for you, who you could work as a team with and grow as a person with but instead all I think a good proportion are are the woman acqiesing to the man (whether they meant to or not) - I think this becomes more pronounced once you have dcs.

And whether you work or stay at home your status diminishes and your horizons become more limited. This is not always the case for men. I think they are also victims of societies stereotyping. Feeling the pressure ot work long hours etc

In answer to the original posts, no, I don't agree that they do.

Most people will put up with a MASSIVE amount of crap before they even consider leaving a relationship - ESPECIALLY if they are married.

scl - if your parents are very happy, never argue and are very close - where is the need for them to leave their bubble. ?

do you feel the need that people in marriages should be climbing ladders and improving thir lives in some way?

i would say if they are very happy, why would they want to climb the ladder and receive more stress and worries that comes with the greater success.

the wisdom in their marriage comes from their knowledge that the grass isn't greener.

i feel many marriages break down these days from the social pressures and expectations that we should all aspire to be wealthy and suxxessful.

what is wrong by earning enough to live by your means and stick with that.

a home only big enough for their needs. only holidaying where they want not on some ridiculous cruise if all they really enjoy is a week in a tent. a 2nd hand car because dh enjoys tinkering repairing the old one.

small commitments/expense/mortgages mean smaller worries.

and the less financial commitment the less time needs to be spent working to make ends meet.more time spent worry free with your oh

marriages in generations past people saved for the wedding, saved for the home. they entered marriage with a clean slate, not a mammoth debt burden immediately upon them.

i think this plays a massive part in contributing to why some marriages fail at first hurdle within a few years.

Of course, the other big problem is that there is so much pressure for people to make their relationships progress in this linear fashion. So you meet someone, you date them, you shag them, you enjoy the dating and shagging, but after a while either one partner or various other people start putting on the pressure to progress, to move in together or marry or breed. There are plenty of people you can have good times with but wouldn't necessarily want to live with, yet all too often people buy into this ridiculous idea that there comes a time when you have to go for the pairbonding thing. A lot of the time when a couple marry it's one partner who's very keen and the other one not fussed but either accepts the idea that it's just what happens and the keen partner 'will do' or simply hasn't got the guts to refuse the pressure of the machine and be vilified as bad, immature, commitment phobic or decietful.

And in answer to the op, it must be very difficult to get out of an unhappy marriage (with children). And let's face it an economic downturn doesn't help. People get stuck.

I think that a lot of people are reasonably happily married, or living together, but get bored and long for the thrill of a new relationship and everything that goes with it. As it is still socially unacceptable to have romantic/sexual/emotional relationships outside a marriage, or living together relationship, that leaves a lot of people (especially men I think) in an akward situation. Obviously many people do take the risk of some kind of extra-marital relationship (whether emotional, sexual) but, given the norms of our society, there are very high risks attached to it, espcially where children are concerned. A man can risk losing custody of his children, for instance, while a woman can risk losing her financial security. Then there is the guilt involved.

But the drive for sexual excitment is very strong (especially for men I think) so it is astonishing how much people will risk for it. An aquaintance of mine works as a journalist and posed as an attached woman looking for an affair on a dating site for married people. Even allowing for the inevitable lies that people tell, she was astonished by the number of responses from successful men who claimed to be happily married but bored. There were a lot of lawyers!

Sad but true.

No.

I think it is just too easy to get married or set up as a couple and have children. That's the real issue - people making mistakes at the outset. We need to have a culture in which children learn more about relationships earlier in life rather than learning on the job.

wow this thread has taken off!
For those interested I DID have a cuddle with my dh last night, I told him how suprised I was at how afectionate we were and that I hadnt realised just how much we kissed and cuddled eachother until those moments come up and you can't because you are 'separated'.
I am still SOOOOOO confused but his statement yesterday
" Grow up and work through this instead of walking away and ripping all our worlds apart" really did hit me and make me think

But you have to learn about relationships "on the job" - you can't learn about them by reading a book. It's like learning to drive, you can read a 100 manuals but you can only learn by doing. Sorry, but I still think that some/quite a few people get bored in long term relationships and crave excitement. I am not saying that is a desirable state of affairs, but perhaps it would be better to be honest that this does happen to SOME people.

About learning on the job - it's the same with bringing up children. You can't learn that from a book either.

I still maintain that you cannot necessarily shoehorn everybody into a lifetime of monogamy with one person. The evidence is out there - huge numbers of divorced people and quite a few unhappily married.

'My parents have been married for 50 years and whilst they have been very happy, never argue and are extremely close I sort of see them in a bubble ie neither of them have grown much as people but they are happy with that so good luck to them.

Their expectations of life in general are pretty low extremely unselfish and different to mine. In terms of their parenting they don't self reflect or analyse like I do'

This is how my marriage is and my parents. I see it as a good thing I am not constantly striving for more as I am happy as I am. I am content and fulfilled by my husband and my family. I dont see anything wrong with that.

Also the vast majority of people are to selfish thats why they cant make marriages work. They dont put the other first and vice versa.

Lily

My advice ehre would be

1. Do what you can to schwedule in timme with your DH alone. Even if it means you hiring a bbabysitter (if you can obviously)

1. Seriosuly consider whether the ONS / affair thing is going to rear its ehad wrt to trust etc if you try again.

1. Think about youtr own attitudes about fidelity etc, it does worry me a little that you draw a line between ONS and affair- ime breach of trust is just that.

and tehn see where it goes

Of course, some couples manage to deal with the desire-for-new-sexual-partners very well indeed. They take up swinging.

Some of the happiest and longest-lasting couples I know (we are talking 20-30 year relationships here) are swingers.

You dont actually have to swing to have the variety though sgb. We like the webcam type things with other couples all you need is a camera and an active imagination. Its like being with others without doing it, no stds, no risks and its a turn on. I do it with my husband all the time and I highly recommend it. Its not for jealous types though and you have to be secure in your relationship.

'Of course, some couples manage to deal with the desire-for-new-sexual-partners very well indeed. They take up swinging. '

Or as an alternative option they grow up and accept that the result of the action of becoming married is to accept that staying with onoe person is what they need to do to stay married

No value judgements on either option, I think for most people's psychologies you do the one that works for you, but to stay married it's either / or and get on with it.

No. I think that women have become less accustomed to living as chattel, and men ahve not accepted this properly.

So we now do not tolerate being hit, being cheated on, having our decisions made for us, and being left with the brunt of the housedrudgery.

that's not giving up on marriage, it's giving up being treated like shit.

SMA: Resigning yourself reluctantly to monogamy is not growingup, it's giving up. It's the people who are unhappy with the idea of never having new sexual partners, but conform because they have been told to, who end up having affairs all over the place.

I am not talking about anyone resigning. Growing up is accepting teh deal you make. You get to specify that, bvut whatever it is you take responsibility for.

Swinging is not a morally superior status. neither is it a morally inferior one: but a good relationship invoovles both agreeing on the contract made and dealing within the terms of that. There is nothing mature about changing your mind halfway down the line, and if you have to you don't do it by sneaking about having affairs, you face up to your own decisions.

I agree that people shouldn't just breach agreements they have made, but I think it's reaosnable to renegotiate a contract if you have become tired of the terms, as long as you do so honestly.

Exaclty: honesty is the key.

Sneakinga round behind people's backs is not.

It's immature and reeks of wanting to have your cake and eat it.

Should DH decide suddenyly he needs more sexual partners that's ultimately his call (though I won't be happy) but I have the right to decide whether I want that for myself, and to be aware what's happening in our shared relationship. taking that choice from people is wrong.

If he wanted to do that (unlikely) he'd have to have the balls to make a call between staying with me or going and following his wants.