Do we give up too easily on marriage these days?

[lostlilly]

some of you may have reads my threads a few weeks ago but had some problems with DH last 12-18 months and have been seriously considering leaving. we have been 'separated' for last few weeks, living in same house as cannot afford to leave but separate rooms and really not much time 'together' at all. I have been missing him alot and suprised at how affectionate we were without me realising it and dd absolutely adores him, he IS a good dad. This morning he said I need to 'grow up and work though this instead of walking away and ripping ours and dd's world apart'

I don't think anyone takes ending a marriage lightly. It's a horrendous thing to go through, and yes, you have to know that you've done everything you can to make the marriage work. But there does come a point where you either think a) I've done all I can or b) I just don't have the energy to try any more - I just can't do it. If you reach that point, walking away is all you can do. And if he's a good father, he always will be a good father - that needn't change.

The difference, I think, is that even only 30 years ago people would stay together no matter how awful it was because of the stigma of divorce; I'm glad that attitudes have changed.

The more I read in women's forums, the more convinced I become that we don't give up on marriage anywhere near easily enough!

For centuries, men have got away with using their wives as servants / incubators/ penis holders. It was never the case that ALL men did so, any more than it is now. But too many do. And the reason they do is that they can. Because YOU let them.

If everybody had to treat their partner as a valuable human being, or be left alone to their own devices, the world would be a much happier place. And more men would shape up, imo.

I would say: What on earth leads you to think you don't deserve to be admired & respected by your partner? But I know the answers because I was a fuckwit, too. I am old enough to be your mother, though - I'd hoped my generation's efforts might have made a difference by now. Apparently not. Sad.

probs with his family are down to probs with his ex basically, because of everything hse has put me through.. and she did actually get me arrested with the child abuse thing!! I and my parents are obvisouly agast as to why they still support her and stick up for her with the 'she's on her own with no family' comments and 'its all for the sake of grandson' and giving her money, babysitting all the time, (she doesnt and has never worked by the way). I have been there several times when she phones and chats to his mum and I feel incredibly uncomfortable and think its very disprespectful given all thats gone on and told them so and we all fell out and now dont see or speak to eachother, so she has won his family basically.
I do feel totally overwhelmed and still so confused, I feel isolated and just want a big hug off my husband and reassurance that it will be okay and she cant do anymore damage but he is never going to be able to do that is he

It does sound from what you just wrote that you do still love him.

Your DH cant make ex go away , or make his family put you before his ex, but does DH make it VERY clear to his family that in his opionion they dont treat you with enough respect?

If he doesnt then he needs to and I can understand how you would feel lonely in this whole thing. You need to be a team, and know you are facing all this s**t with his complete support.

he has spoken to them about it and his mother said she had a right to be friends with whom she wanted but after everything she has done to me/us I don't get it. I am left feeling like I am the one who has done wrong and I dred every christmas etc because I know his mum will want him and our dd but not me because of the atmoshphere, my dh actually said last christmas it might be better if I didnt go with them! I went mad saying surely he didnt expect me to spend christmas on my own?
Its messy! he does love me I know that but as you say he cant make is family disspaear

The Christmas thing is awful.
Although did you want to go? I dont think i'd want anything to do with a mil who treated me like that.

I had a very tricky patch with DH, and I felt like leaving him for about 3 years!! But im so glad we worked it out. (mainly due to DH telling me he wasnt giving up on our marriage, that we HAD to work things out.] Looking back we were both under tremendous pressures and we ended up very distant from each other. With hindsight I know if we'd tried to present a united front and helped each other, we would have come through it all alot quicker.

I knew we loved each other, and that despite everything hes the kindest, most desent bloke on the planet. Hes never been cruel, nasty or unkind. Can you say similiar things about your DH? If you can then dont throw it all away.

Like others have said, you do need to sit down and talk. But if you want that hug from him tonight, tell him, im sure he'll want the same!x

thanks that was a lovely post

lostilly grow up! "It's not him. It's her." Just doesn't cut it and you're making excuses for him? Why?

and that wasn't quite so lovely!
he is a strong man regarding being a hard worker and provider and father and contributor to the household-as far as chores and parenting goes and I repsect him massively for that. He is WEAK as far as his ex and parents go and I do not have respect for him regarding that at all! but is it worth throwing away almost 10 years for

I understand how hurt you must be by the actions of the ex and the impact on you personally and your relationship with DH. But don't forget that she is mother of the grandchild and has custody. Your MIL is probably desperate to maintain the relationship with her to ensure they still see their grandchild. You're seeing the relationship as all one way and not understanding why your in laws put up with all the previous history and stay in touch but they are getting to see their grandchild which is probably worth any of that and more to them.

However, that doesn't mean they can't treat you with respect and even warmth as well, esp since you also have a grandchild! So maybe your DH needs to have a chat with them and say that and you need to try not to have a fundamental issue with the ex's existence and try to find a way to manage when everyone's together rather than isolating yourself by refusing to talk to them unless they cut her out.

If ex tried all that and your DH chose you, it must give you some confidence. Can you try opening up to him and telling him how much you want a hug and then try and figure out what you can do together to improve the situation with his family without making him feel that if you don't effectively get everyone to pretend the ex doesn't exist, he can't have any contact with any of his family?

they know how I feel and he knows too, he broke down this morning saying he just can't see what he can do, he has told his parents why I feel the way I do, he said he cant do anymore except cut them off and thats not going to happen obviously.
To be honest I know this is going nowwhere as I have been banging my head against this brick wall for a long time now. the issue is wether I can cope with it and make this marriage work or not

I know exactly how you are feeling, i am leaving my husband because of this, it wont work, i havnt been happy because of his family for a long while. I am fed up. He is also a very weak person. I am sorry you are having to go through this. His family sound like my husbands family. I feel he has hidden so much from me. I regret marrying him.

We do but at the same time I'm beginning to see marriage as quite an antiquated set up. Ideal, quaint but old- fashioned. I think it's very sad that I feel like this.

Aww, don't leave him. You both love each other so much and that is rare. I don't know what you should do, but I know you really, really shouldn't leave.

Yes sometimes I think we do.

I think modern marriages are no better than old-fashioned ones. These days we are expected to work, give our kids to other people to raise, still do all the chores and then are encouraged to leave at the first sign of trouble to enter the stressful shittiness of life as a single Mum. Awesome!

We live, unfortunately, in a world where a false expectation of immediate gratification is shoved down our throats. Consume clothes, food, holidays. cars, men, throw away when bored. As human beings we are all irretrievably flawed individuals, and life would probably be a lot easier if we went into relationships with the expectation of finding the good, the bad, AND the ugly in our partners, along with a lot of boredom. If you can't accept this, then don't get involved and don't have children. You have to remember that men are, in essence, a walking sex bomb. Remember when having a baby was the single most overwhelming desire in your life? Now imagine that same strength of feeling, but 10 times as strong, and 24/7 from the age of 14 until the age of 70. That's how they were designed. If you don't like it, complain to the manufacturer!

arfarfa - Its not hard to imagine how much a man needs sex as a lot of women are the same. I hate tje stereotype women dont want sex because it isnt true.

I do think people throw away marriages to easily on silly things. I see it all the time I dont think many people have the ability to empathise about the other partners position.

Beautiful i thin k you may have a point

There has to be a midway where people get some reward without accepting too much bad but I doubt we're tehre yet.

I always think of my parents who still hold hands after 42 years but struggled a lot through mmy childhood; they simply shrug and say 'well parenting is hard'. i think they may have a point; perhps if we (I?) foocused more on what it is the relationship is at that time- heady romance, partnership to raise offspring, sexual companionship- it might fall mroe into focus.

exactly santimoanyarse everyone has hard times as look as they arent violent and abusive and you are willing to try then you have to overcome the obstacles. You have to think of yourselves as a team and not fighting against each other when thinks get hard. My husband calls us team extreme cause together we can conquer anything lol

I'm with Grace - people, particularly women, don't walk nearly enough.
Though a good couple-relationship is a great thing to have and many work just fine, far too many people enter into them because they think it's compulsory, and they do so with the nearest available person, and then find that actually it's utterly grim and they were far better off single.
DOn't forget that (for all the benefits there may be in a good couple-relationship) the basic point of them, and the reason they are so constantly sold to women as their destiny, is that they are for making sure that as many men as possible are serviced by women domestically, sexually and in terms of breeding.

SGB - what an awful way of looking at things. I dont 'service' my husband sexually I do it cause I love sex and I love him. I personally think men have it worse they have to work harder, miss time with their kids, there are no choices for them etc but many do it and are brilliant husbands and fathers. I personally would hate to feel so jaded.

SGB-Isn't it usually the woman who has the most primary requirement as far as 'servicing' for breeding is concerned?

From an anthropological point of view, men-women relationships have always been about children and they providing a valuable tool for social cohesion. Marriage has grown out of that tradition. While most people today view marriage as an emotional commitment borne of love, that is most definitely NOT what it was originally intended for. The trouble is, most people fail to sit down and truly examine what they mean by the terms love, marriage and commitment. Most people get married when they fall in love because it seems like the next logical step. For many it is and it works fine. For others it's a disastrous move.

My parents and grandparents had wonderful marriages. Not without problems, but they were minor and worked through healthily. If you want to hold up role models for the institution of marriage, you could use my family. However, I personally feel this is not the norm. 2 out of 3 marriages fail. Of the third that do not split up, a fair proportion of them will not be happy marriages. Couple this with the fact that 1 in 4 women experience abuse and that's based on reported figures, suggesting that if you take into account controlling, non-violent behaviours as well as un-reported violence, the actual figure is more like half the population living in unhealthy relationships. To me this suggests that well over half the women in this country are miserable in their relationships, married or not. More of them should leave. I don't hold to the old chestnut of staying for the sake of the children, as IMO a happy single parent with good values and a healthy approach to personal responsibility and respect for others brings up a far better child than the child brought up in a house that sees abuse and control, even if it's not physical, because values of personal responsibility and respect for others are never present in a relationship that is inherently unequal.

I think a happy marriage is still the ideal in this country because it is the basis that our whole society is constructed around. In a differently constructed society, it may not be necessary. I also agree with the poster earlier who said that the media have perpetuated the idea of the permanent romance, which is unrealistic. We should view marriage as being hard work sometimes, in the same sense that being a parent is - ie it's worth it because the advantages outweigh the hard work that is sometimes necessary. That said, I would argue that we don't so much give up on marriage too easily as we fall into relationships too easily in the first place.

I think parents don't talk with their children enough about what a marriage can entail, and what makes a good one.

Perhaps it's all wing and a prayer (and they too are not sure), perhaps the gap between pre-dc and post-dc is too great of giving guidance is too prejudicial.