How do you know if you're co-dependent and what can you do about it?

[malinkey]

Title says it all really! Am on the brink of leaving my emotionally abusive partner, but this is the third crap relationship I've been in - in a row. This one is less obviously abusive than the last two and I thought it was ok to start with but turns out it's pretty crap too. Sigh.

It can't be coincidence that this has happened again. I don't consciously seek out men who would make me unhappy but I must give out signals to the wrong kind of men or not notice and/or put up with behaviour that other women wouldn't. Or perhaps I actively put off decent men. The rest of my life is pretty ok and I have some really lovely non-abusive type friends!

So, how do I make sure that I never end up in this situation again? Is counselling enough or is there something else I can do?

Any advice from someone who's been through similar gratefully received.

A few years ago I came to realise I had co-dependent traits when I was trying to get out of a relationship with an alcoholic.

The best starting recommendation I can make is to get a book called "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Most libraries have copies. Read the first few chapters. If you feel like you're reading your own life story, carry on reading.

I found counselling to be very helpful as well. There is another book called "Games People Play" by Eric Berne which is also very good at explaining a variety of less-than-helpful habits in communication. But it is rather "dry" reading.

Thanks Snorbs - I will add Codependent No More to my extensive list of books I need to read! Am going to be very busy reading when I do leave this relationship.

Swallowedafly, yes I have left unhealthy relationships eventually. So I guess that is positive. But it has taken me a long time every time so years of my life have been eaten up. Have been with my current partner 8 years and two previous ones several years each. Am in my 40s now so don't want to waste any more of my life!

Maybe I don't have enough sense of justice and equality! Thing is I think I often do bend over backwards to keep the peace but I'm not being true to myself and underneath there is actually a seething mass of resentment which eventually wins out. Ok, so 8 years is a bit slow.

Think it's probably better to be relationship proof than stay in the wrong relationship.

i agree; i see often i partner eg my sister bending to accomadate and now she's ill- i knew this would come as she holds it all in; propping him up financially, emotionally, etc and i am also in a coodependant rel with a self confessed alcoholic ....many issues

..p.s. i think we repeat patterns until we wake up but even then repeat again!

Oh dear swallowed. That is a depressing thought!

But surely people who realise they are repeating patterns and wake up and then try and do something about it are able to stop repeating them? I really hope so.

But maybe if two people care enough for each other they should be able to accommodate the other's needs (to a degree) without compromising their own needs.

And perhaps using your example actually learning to be less needy or less needed would be beneficial to both partners and part of the process of a healthy long-term relationship? I don't know if I'm being naive because it would mean both partners would have to be willing to try and change their own pattern.

I think that two people must 'want' rather than 'need' to be with each other and perhaps that want will be enough to sustain them over time and maybe that does turn into need as time goes by.

I'm waffling now and of course this is all pure supposition because it certainly isn't what I've experienced.

Well it sounds like each of your partners in succession has been less awful than the last one, which shows some indications that you are learning from mistakes (sorry if that sounds horribly patronizing) - if you had started with unsupportive/distant bloke, moved on to unfaithful/addicty bloke and progressed to a violent psychopath, that would be a far more worrying path to be following.
But this is what a lot of people seem to do; escape a horrible relationship and, because they are a bit shellshocked and have a distorted view of what couplehood ought to be like, they hook up with someone who isn't as bad as the last partner, but is undesirable in a different way. Also, people who are fresh out of an abuse situaion are unfortunately very appealing to the more subtle and manipulative abusers and to cocklodgers and parasites.
The best thing you can do for yourself once rid of the latest twat is embrace singlehood for a while. The main mistake most women make is believing that having a Man In Your Life is necessary or compulsory and that any man will do. If you can;t find a really, really good one, you will be much happier without one.

No, it doesn't sound patronizing SGB and yes current P is less awful than previous ones.

I can't actually imagine wanting to get into another relationship once I extricate myself from this one as I have no faith left in my judgement and my main priority is looking after DS. And I am looking forward to singlehood and being able to do what I want to do without worrying about someone else being moody about it.

It would just be nice to know that if I was ever to think about getting involved with someone ever again that I would be able to do so with better self-esteem and judgement and with my eyes wide open. And in the unlikely event that I was ever to find a really, really good man that I would be able to see that rather than looking for abuse-type flaws at every turn.

malinkey

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. I would ask you all what you were taught by them (you do not have to answer that) because if damaging lessons were taught then this has to be "unlearnt". If the lessons are not properly unlearnt then these can get repeated. Counselling could well be helpful to you here - BACP has a list of counsellors and would not charge the earth.

As SGB correctly states as well people fresh out of an abusive relationship are targets for other types of manipulative and abusive men.

Love your own self for a change. Better to be alone than to be badly accompanied as the French proverb says.

Attila - yes I do need to unlearn what my parents taught me. I always used to think that I was fairly self-aware and would be able to do this through sheer force of will but it is slowly dawning on me that I need some help. I am going to go to counselling soon.

Even if I was to meet the most amazing man once I get out of this relationship I wouldn't be able to have a relationship with him if I wanted to - I'm just too shellshocked and wouldn't know what was right or wrong. I really do just vant to be alone!

Swallowed - you're way ahead of me as far as all this goes. I agree there is no harm done in your scenario at all. So where does that leave you?

I've read this post with interest.

I had counselling about 2 years ago now as I was really down.

She helped me to understand why I am the way I am and advised me to read the same book.

When I started reading it I thought yes this is me but then ok so what do I do about it.

I am married with 2 children and I really struggle to cope sometimes. My DH is a really really good man but after talking to the counsellor she made me realise that I our relationship had grown into a kind of father, daughter thing (me allowing him to father me and him feeling that he must). Not bad but not good or me as I was not addressing my needs but letting DH meet them for me. Its all very complicated.

The upshot of it was that I had to start standing my ground and letting the anger out instead of surpressing it for the sake of hurting others ie DH.

Over the last 2 years I have managed quite well with this concept but there are still times when I fail miserably and I go into a really low mood.

We are still together but I find it ever so difficult to live with and have often thought I would be better off on my own. The thing is I love him to bits but hate the kind of way of love we have fell into IYKWIM.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

laura - what is it that you find so difficult to live with? Is it that it's unnatural for you to stand your ground and let your anger out? Or is it more to do with the relationship dynamic? Have you found it harder to live with since you had counselling? Does your DH understand and has he tried to stop acting like your father?

Sounds like you're finding it hard work one way or the other.

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand. I find it very difficult to deal with any sort of confrontation so I go out of my way to not deal with it which is very unhealthy and something I really do want to change.

There are lots of threads on here about "early warning signs" or 'red flags' - can be useful to read through. Because there is not just one kind of abuse it can be easy to get with someone new and think "Oh he's a good man, he does his share in the house, not like my ex." and overlook the fact that he is a bit pushy in the bedroom, which then escalates etc. Or to think "He's not controlling, he doesn't mind me going out on my own, he is supportive of me having my own life" but overlook the fact he expects tea on the table at a certain time or sends ironing back to be re-done etc. (I am sure you can think of an example in your own relationships)

Have you looked to see if there is a Women's Aid freedom programme near you?

Or, maybe you are like me and really struggle to set boundaries and stick to them. It's weird because if it is someone I feel confident with (a friend I know well, or DS, etc) I can set boundaries and stick to them. Or at least, I do it better - but if there is someone I feel intimidated by (in a way) like someone in authority, e.g. a health visitor, my own parents, an unknown quantity e.g. a new friend or new man, or someone I know to be aggressive like my XP then every time they push the boundaries I kind of go "Um, oh, um, okay then." and it's usually just to keep the peace, or prevent offending them, but I really need to be able to stick to boundaries.

Controlling/manipulative people are the worst for me sticking to my boundaries with, e.g. with XP, he used to pick DS up at the end of the road, and slowly started to park further and further up the road. I didn't feel I could say "Please park down by the shop like we originally agreed" because I felt it was petty, but over time he parked right outside my house and now knows where I live, despite me not wanting him to know (and not knowing his address myself). I allowed the boundary to be pushed until it was something I was uncomfortable with - but I am always too surprised to react at the time and then tend to think "Oh I've let it go for a day now, it's going to look silly if I object now" and the longer I leave it the worse that gets.

If your childhood resulted in your having a set of values, beliefs and assumptions that seem to be adversely affecting your life choices, you would benefit from therapy. It is NOT something you can just fix, because the mind you're using to fix it is the one with the unhelpful patterns of thought!

I would have written a longer reply, Malinkey, as we seem alike in many ways. I seem to be posting the same thing over and over just now, though ..!

My idea of a good relationship - the type I have never had, but have observed in others - in one that mutually celebrates strengths & positives. Need comes into it nowhere.

Bertie - actually reading the 'red flags' thread got me started on this one because with my track record of relationships I would qualify as being a great big red flag myself!

Your post rings a lot of bells with me. Yes, I have done the "oh he doesn't mind me going out with my friends therefore is nothing like XP" only to discover "well actually he's a bit shouty, lacking in empathy", etc.

I am also rubbish at setting boundaries, though like you I can do so with certain people - i.e. close friends who are not abusive. Have issues particularly with men and am hopeless with tradesmen "yes, I did say that I would like it done in this way, but you want to do it differently so I'll go along with that then as I am unable to say no"!

I haven't looked into the freedom programme near me as I thought that's for women in worse circumstances and would feel a bit of a fraud! Did you do it?

Grace - I think therapy is the way to go. Logically I don't get it though as I was so happy to leave home and get away from my childhood situation that I don't understand why I would choose to put myself right back there.

No, there isn't a programme near me so I haven't really looked into it other than basically - but I don't think that you have to have been through really terrible relationships to go on it - just recognise that your patterns in relationships are less than healthy.

I am having counselling at the moment and it was there that I realised I have trouble with boundaries. My counsellor was a bit dismissive of it though saying sometimes when you realise that you are doing something, that's enough for you to stop doing it. I don't think that's true - especially in this case, so this week we are supposed to be doing some exercises to help me improve it, but I'll see how it goes. I will probably start a thread about it in a few days anyway so keep an eye out

Neural pathways, Malinkey. They are the shortcuts formed by our brains, to save having to process everything from scratch each time. That's what the wrinkles on the brain are, and there are millions of others less deeply etched.

Throughout your childhood and early adulthood, your brain was forming pathways at an incredible rate. This is, naturally, so that you can quickly implement your learning in the future. The disadvantage of having neural pathways based on crap parenting should be obvious!

Our neural pathways are the reason why we trundled off to replicate our parents' mistakes, even though we 'knew' better. Thousands of tiny triggers - the way a husband looks at a wife; the way the wife turns away from him; a certain catch in the voice - are wired into the "Relationship Pathways" we formed as children.

The good news is: we form new pathways throughout our lives, and disused ones smoothe away over time.

It's almost impossible to effect major change by ourselves, because our own minds use our existing neural patterns. I like to think of it as driving up the M1. While you're on the motorway, you have little idea of what lies a few miles to either side, let alone whether you could use a different road to get there. A good counsellor is like having someone in the car with you, who can say "There's a beautiful place over there, take the next exit and I'll give you directions."

You're still driving, but you need the other person to show you the better route.