Trying to overhaul my mental health and want couples counselling but DP refusing, any advice?

[Surama]

I have some MH issues. I have avoided seeking help for them, ever, so have no diagnosis but I have problems with anxiety, major mood swings, get angry very quickly etc. I have children and don't want them to have a childhood like the one I did (which seems to be the root of my issues), so went to see my GP, who said I would benefit from therapy rather than medication and has referred me for counselling.

However I want to have couples therapy with my partner. There are aspects of our relationship which are unhealthy, learned behaviours I feel we need to change if we're going to be happy and healthy together longterm and have a positive environment for our children.

We've been together a long time and many of these 'problems' grew up from him dealing with my issues the best way he could (and protecting himself from them, too). I want to get myself better and purge all this nastiness from our home. My partner can be dismissive towards me and my feelings (because I overreact and "am ridiculous" so there is no point listening to me) and quite vengeful/spiteful - I suspect it's how he vents his frustration with the often abysmal way I have treated him and the sudden rages I am still prone to.

I raised the subject with him and he was very, very negative about it. He says there is nothing wrong with him and we can't afford it and he "doesn't want to be involved". After considerable arguing he conceded and said I should "sort myself out first" and then he will consider it. From my point of view, I want to have a supportive atmosphere as I undergo therapy and I want him to understand why I am the way I am and how I am tackling it. He is quite dismissive of therapy anyway (though so was I, for years, as a defense mechanism). In fact, very negative opinions of people with MH issues is something we had in common when we first met - I was in denial, while he had a difficult relationship with a horrible person who also happened to have MH issues and excuse all their bad behaviour by referencing them constantly.

So I do understand that he's not keen, but I think it would be so valuable. There are already a lot of old wounds, resentments etc and I am tired of being told I am irrational or overreacting or "always do this". I'm also tired of poor DP being my emotional punchbag. There is so much which is wonderful about our relationship and I just want us to be the happiest we can be.

In an ideal world I would undertake my own counselling and then, demonstrating dramatically improved behaviour and thought processes, persuade him to come along for couples counselling having proved its worth through my own changes. But I suspect it's unlikely that my (NHS), counselling will be a smooth or definitive process and I also suspect that going through it may make me more rather than less difficult to live with.

Does anyone have any suggestions? He won't come and talk to my GP with me, he "doesn't want to be involved".

Why not just concentrate on yourself for the time being, do what YOU need to do for yourself, and then approach the subject of couple conselling again?

ChocolatePants, I suspect I'll end up doing that but I think my counselling will dredge up a lot of bad stuff from my past (abusive childhood), and whenever this has happened previously I've been worse rather than better, if you see what I mean?

My concern is that I'll go for therapy and (so far as DP is concerned), 'get worse', so he will think the whole thing is a huge mistake (he has said before that his worst nightmare is being with a mentally ill person again - I am trying to convince him that his abusive MI partner was using her issues as an excuse but he doesn't 'get' it).

He is a big one for brushing things under the carpet, out of sight out of mind and conflict avoidance at all costs and I am sure some of that is my fault. I just don't want him to be actively hostile to my own counselling and I thought couples therapy might help him understand the process and feel more involved, since we are a partnership in life.

I honestly think your DP has a point - this is your project and you should manage it. I think that you will get much more out of it if you concentrate on your 'rehabilitation' and get to a certain point before you bring him in. I think for you to get maximum benefit you need to take ownership - your primary relationship is, of course, with yourself.

If you fear that the therapeutic process will make you more difficult to live with then you should discuss this at the outset with the MH professional. Using strategies and learning to control yourself and your feelings seems to be one of you primary aims, judging from your post. This should be addressed by the MHP, they should not just 'let you loose' at the end of a session.

If your DP is dismissive of therapy, then let him see some 'improvements' (sorry poor choice of word) in your thought processes and problem solving coming from your sessions. He will then have some evidence that therapy does in fact work and will be more likely to get on board. I strongly believe that I shouldn't expect blanket support from my partner on issues they are unsure of - however when I take ownership of something and show evidence of positive steps then it sends a strong message that this is something important and worth investing belief and time in. Then I know I'll get my support.

I really wish you luck, I once had a course of CBT and I got a lot out of it so I'm sending you my virtual belief and support

Hi RudeEnglish.

yeah, you're probably right - I do see DP's point objectively.

I tend to get discouraged without his support and depend a lot on him approving of any given project (this is probably something to tackle in therapy as well). It has been distressing to say "I feel so much happier - don't you think I'm doing much better now", after years of work and much success in managing my emotions and have him say "no"!

In fact I think this must be a big thing to tackle - I don't know if he's unusually reluctant to 'approve' of me (he is a very critical person), or if I am unusually dependent on his good opinion!

I just don't want to give him an excuse to say it has caused more harm than good and I should just have spontaneously changed entirely, you know? Not while it's still so important to me that he backs me up on it.

Aah, Surama sorry.. I didnt pick up on the fact that you think he is hostile to your own personal counselling also. Maybe write down his concerns and address with the MH prof at the first meeting and reassure him about the process. Then he knows you are taking his concerns seriously and is more likely to be positive. If my partner started therapy I may be a little worried about what came out - like maybe he wants to move to Finland and build boats or sees a future without me for instance! Maybe your DH has fears and he's not saying, just being negative about therapy in general to mask it IYSWIM?

I think that there are 2 issues here, and I fear you may be getting them rather confused.

The first is that you need therapy to engage with and make sense of your childhood, and that opening this can of worms is going to make it "worse not better" in the short- medium term. You need his support for this, and you - for a number of reasons are not sure/certain that you will get it.

The second is that you feel that couple counselling is something that needs to happen, partly as your relationship has its issues, but I sense ( I hope im not out of line here) that you request him more to attend counselling with you to show some level of solidarity and support.

I am just starting a course of therapy too - I expect it to be a long road. One thing that is coming up is that the way I make sense of what my ex/p is doing/has done, through the lens of how I expect to be treated through my childhood.example- if I as the child was always dismissed,I find partner dismissive. Not that they necessarily are, its that Im conditioned to believe I am not worthy of being listened to. Does that make sense?

Your own therapy will help you make sense of your own view of your relationship now and that is hugely personal and "sacred".

I am so pleased I have chosen to go through my own therapy first, and that in time we may have couples work together. However, when we do have couples work, it will be based on what is truth, underneath layers of old hurt.

There is an issue about him "not wanting to be involved" and I wonder too what this is about- there is a question over "structure" and not wanting things to change so much, would you say there are any aspects of him controlling you in any way? What are the unhealthy learned behaviours you talk of?

Love from 1foot x

I think I see now why you want a couples therapy. You feel like he is very critical and you want him to just sometimes stop and say 'yes, you are better' or 'yes, you did good that time'.

My DP is not critical, he is kind but often distant and absent-minded so I've learned to get attention or approval by 'presenting evidence'. This works well. I don't know how to get attention or approval from a critical person. I did have one hyper-critical parent and then once a very critical boyfriend but I never did come to terms with it, short of never speaking to them anymore. Sorry, I think everyone needs a bit of approval and I feel for you.

"in fact I think this must be a big thing to tackle - I don't know if he's unusually reluctant to 'approve' of me (he is a very critical person), or if I am unusually dependent on his good opinion!"

I don't know if your childhood had lots of criticism in it ( mine definitely did) and this you may find to be something you should be exploring with your MHP.

Love from 1foot xx

Thanks RudeEnglish and 1foot.

DP has massive issues with people he percieves to be 'hiding behind' MH problems. His first girlfriend used her issues as an excuse for some truly atrocious behaviour and theirs was an abusive relationship. It has had a huge impact on him and affects his attitude towards what I am doing. When I started trying to process my childhood and decided to seek help he was very, very negative. He sees it as "seeking out trouble", being melodramatic, creating problems etc. He's quite... willfully oblivious(?) - to drama and upset and thinks everyone else should be too.

So I am pretty sure he won't be supportive of my counselling. Unfortunately I don't really have anyone else to get support from! The counsellor themselves I suppose but that seems a bit eggs in one basket.

I don't want him to view me the way he views me now forever. But yes, you're right, trying to change everything at once won't work - I so badly want it to though! Must take my time and do it properly.

I am concerned that NHS counselling is apparently only six sessions though?

1foot you make some really interesting points about viewing things through a lens, I am going to think about that quite seriously. I spent a long time being told that I was wrong/bad/poisonous - and I do believe it on some level - it must have an impact on how I 'hear' what DP says now.

DP isn't controlling as such, he just doesn't want me to be "mental". I don't want to be a "mental" who denies their problems like my mother was!

NHS counselling will be what it needs to be.

I was referred last year to Clinical Psychology for a serious MH issue which has dogged me for many years. I was assessed by a psychologist and then referred on (to the consultant actually as my issues are big) and have already had 7 months of therapy on the NHS and we are anticipating it lasting about another year. Like you my problems were ignored/repressed (by me and others) for many years, and so I am in need of a lot of help to sort it out.

It has got worse, but in the last few weeks things are getting slowly better. I feel like I have turned (the first of several) corners.

But I have a totally supportive dh, who came to my first session with me because he knows I underplay my symptoms, who lets me process what I am going through, who understands that sometimes things are going to be worse as I deal with some major issues from my childhood.

The thing that worries me most about what you are saying is that he "doesn't want to be involved". What kind of loving partner doesn't want to help you get better? Even if not for your sake, for the sake of your children.

You do need outside support whilst going through therapy. Is there anyone else you can rely on?

Wishing you lots of luck - its a hard old process but so worth it!

You explain the situation so well here I feel sure that if you speak calmly with your DP he will feel understood and listened to. You have a lot of empathy towards his bad MH experiences so I hope he can overcome his fears and stop being so critical.

Like you say though - you are probably tuning in for crtisism, just like he is tuning in for signs of you going "mental".

Good Luck, again, I really hope you find some peace of mind from your sessions.

I had inner child therapy, on the nhs, you get 8 sessions. I believe you can get re referred, as this is my second lot of nhs therapy in twelve months. The first got me to a place where I was no longer in denial.

My problems all stem from problems with my mother as well.

This last lot of therapy has been incredibly intense and difficult. However, I am aware that I am becoming me, finally. Even after just seven sessions.

My H and I are currently separated, he is now having therapy too, after being against it, in an extreme fashion, like your H. There is no way he would have gone if I hadn't insisted on a separation. My mother had a very negative impact on him, his behaviour, and our marriage, we still don't quite know what happened.

But WE are getting there, separately as well as individually. The way you are with people changes the way that they are with you.

Looking after YOURSELF, could have an impact on your h, and your marriage, regardless of what he does.

Some of the newer therapies can be very effective in a very short space of time.

I hope that helps you in some way.

weegiemum, thankyou very much for that info, that is very reassuring indeed.

He doesn't think I need to get better because he doesn't think there's anything wrong with me. He thinks I should 'just stop' behaving the way I do/being the way I am. He has said I should "get over" and "stop thinking about" old traumas - I wish I could! He does seem to be able to in his own life. He doesn't understand that even though some of my thought processess are irrational - and I know they're irrational - I can't stop them! It makes him really frustrated. I'd hoped that some counselling might show him it's not something I do on purpose.

He is a great partner and a great friend to me, just not on this topic. Unfortunately part of the way I am is not having many friends, none I'd trust with this, but I'll think of something.

I feel very good about embarking on this - like now I can make a change.

RudeEnglish, I am going to try to unpack how I feel next time I feel criticised by DP. Perhaps if I can explain it rationally he'll phrase things a bit differently too (he's a "you are" person not a "you are being" person and that presses a lot of buttons), that would be a win-win.

only read OP, but i am in exactly the same situation. It's like catch 22, I feel I need support and infact sometimes DH even makes it all worse, but then I see it from his POV and sometimes I must be a right pain in the backside to live with and need to sort myself out and then I think the relationship issues would fall into place. Will read through later, didn't want to lose thread x

Just read the post under mine - so so similar! DH doesn't understand how old traumas are still haunting me, even though at least 50% of the time it's them intruding on me rather than me more actively thinking about them. Will come back after dinner/bath/bed x

RudeEnglish sorry to backtrack but I'd missed this:

I think I see now why you want a couples therapy. You feel like he is very critical and you want him to just sometimes stop and say 'yes, you are better' or 'yes, you did good that time'.

That is EXACTLY it. He seems unable to do it - or unwilling. We've spoken about it endlessly. I am proud of myself very rarely, there have been two times I've been immensely proud and immediately he has said "but". Once when I got my degree - I did really well despite being a full-time mum to DS1, having a series of miscarriages and being pregnant with DS2 during finals. I got the results and started crying with happiness, and said "I feel like it's the first time I've ever really achieved something, ever really owned an achiement" (my parents used to take credit for everything I ever did well - I was entirely to blame for everything I did badly though of course)

He said "but you wouldn't've gotten it without me helping". Which was true but it just destroyed me.

Last weekend there was a family event which I had been dreading for over a year. Lots of awful things were done/said to me in the runup to it and I was literally sick with fear the day before. It happened and I did really well - even enjoyed myself. I said the next day that a weight had lifted, I was so proud of myself for the way I had dealt with it. During the event itself DP had taken me aside several times to tell me I was doing really well, which was lovely.

But the next day he sat me down and unleashed this huge litany of criticism, things he'd been upset with at the time but hadn't wanted to mention, big speech about how this was indictative of my general crap-person-ness. He made good points and yes I did take him for granted and I was a bit manic/overwrought and probably a bit rude to him as well but oh my goodness it felt like the sky had fallen in.

So I am not sure... is it unreasonable of me to care so much what he thinks/pin so much on it, and to be so destroyed if/when he is critical?

Or is it unreasonable of him to always have something negative to say?

I am desperate for approval - his in particular - and it cuts me to the core when I don't have it.

We had a conversation once when I said "why aren't you ever proud of me?" and he said "because I don't want you to stop trying", but...

Oh I dunno. But I DO know we need to address this as it is a really big deal to me.

ASecretLemonadeDrinker Hi! Please excuse the vast essays - look forward to talking later. Just wrestling DCs into bath now too ;)

Hi again - was just on dinner detail so just got back to your recent post.

The experiences that you describe there sound utterly deflating. This "We had a conversation once when I said "why aren't you ever proud of me?" and he said "because I don't want you to stop trying"," could have come straight from the 'Gospel of REL's horrible old dad'. Its just so parent/child, its so old fashioned and so devastating. I really don't want to cast aspersions on a man I've never met but he sounds like he thinks he's better than you, like he's in charge. And you love him so much that you just want to do the thing that finally impresses him. I wonder if he realises just how dreadful he's being?

I think the way forward is definately - you have your NHS sessions, like Weegie Mum says they'll do what they need to do. Focus on your own issues to begin with, childhood, persistant troubling thoughts or whatever. Be completely honest so they can assess you properly. This will help you to get stronger and get a clearer picture of what is going on at home and if its fixable. To be fair your DP has had a few knocks himself and he might not realise what a horror he's being or what effect it has on you. Its his willingness to learn and change that you need to gauge - when you are a bit further along.

You are not being lame for wanting some positive feedback. Bloody hell you are tough though, I couldn't handle all these knock backs. Think what you will acheive when you put all that mental toughness into yourself and getting your own peace of mind!

And a big hug (like what I'm not supposed to do )

Now I'm essay writing too, its contagious!

I have to agree Rudeenglish Lady.

I think it is horrendous personally that the next day when you are feeling so proud of yourself for managing to deal with a tricky situation that you are worried over you get a "litany".

The comment about not being able to manage your degree without him, well its almost unsaid. In your situation I would have been like "yay me" and then turned to him and said " couldnt have done it without your support, lets go for dinner" or something.

I also think you are tremendously strong to have withstood all this and I am certain that your own therapy first and foremost without him in it, will help you focus on what you need, both from yourself.

There is a very real risk in my opinion, that if you go into therapy with him at this stage, then he will endeavour to manipulate all of the relationship issues you have into being your fault "if you weren't so needy then I wouldn't need to say these things to you".

I also see this in my own father and this has modelled my view of the world and also how I react to situations I don't have control over, yet at the same time, find myself chasing the "holy grail" of vindication, approval, acceptance, often in places it was never going to be found- because begging for approval and being rejected is just the way I've been brought up to expect.

Love 1 foot x

RudeEnglish and 1Foot thanks. Again lots of food for thought.

I am reluctant to start defending my DP because that always sounds really dodgy to me when other people do it. But I will say that part of what I've been doing in the past couple of years is trying to see things from his perspective a bit more, and I can see how annoying it must be to basically have me be like a dog wanting a bone all the time, you know? We're adults and I can see why he doesn't like it when I am all EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU THINK OF ME. He gets annoyed that I can't stick to one opinion, take criticism (not just his, anyone's), to heart so much.

When we first met I very much was a child - emotionally certainly, and still a teenager chronologically (we didn't get together for years though). I think a big part of me is still six, desperate for affection and approval, not able to moderate my reactions, grasping lacking empathy... all the things which drive me mad about DS1 actually

I will try to talk to him some more about how his criticism affects me. But because he thinks I am irrational/unreasonable for reacting the way I do (and needing it in the first place), I'm not sure we'll get anywhere much.

I want our relationship to be different. It is great in many ways but I want to change (I think I am already changing), and I want him to acknowledge those changes and alter how he behaves towards me.

Putting it like that it sounds sane and reasonable, right? Right? ;)

I will focus on working through my issues from first principles and when the time comes tackle DP and I. But it seems such a difficult task when I am feeling down - it's so much hassle, it's horrible dredging it all up and DP is so, so negative/scared of the suggestion of MH problems.

But I don't want my kids always scared and confused like I was, and I can see things could go that way if I don't address my issues. I have moments of being a truly, truly awful parent and it's DP who's helped me moderate that. We do have a lot of good stuff to build on, I think. I hope!

Hi 1foot - thats so true. If the DP did have not good intentions i.e. being more involved with reinforcing his own world view or even undermining Surama's recovery, then the therapeutic setting could give him the words and insight to undermine her even further. Think about how badly you could bully someone if you had been privy to their therapy sessions - you'd really know their soft spots and could twist the therapists words.

Again, I am not saying he is a bad man, but he has had his own troubles and he seems deeply invested with protecting his world view and position. For example - trying to take credit for the degree like he's really threatened by it and needs to reframe it into his sphere. Perhaps its just too threatening for him to change or allow Surama to change. Hope not...

Oh hi! your back!

Surama, if you have a lot of good stuff like you say then I am sure you will be able to see eye-to-eye eventually. Just get yourself into a position where you can talk confidently with DP either at home or in therapy and let yourself disagree with him or p*ss him off completely and it not be the end of your world!

One tactic I take with (non-constructive)critical people now is to just make fun of them. I allow myself to ignore the critisism and say something sharp/cheeky and then move on. Maybe its a bit bad mannered but its better than taking it on board and getting upset. I've also come to realise that many people are insensitive, just plain dumb or are just moving their mouths not even thinking. Oh, and some people are just mean and unhappy! We can't change who we are or what we got conditioned to be but we can make allowances and strategies to protect ourselves. If you don't react to negativity people give up pretty quick and they think 'ok so I can't push her around'.

Hope I'm not hindering your thought processes here...?? I think you have touched me because I've felt a bit like you a few times in my life and I think its a shame so many women go through this. Now I'm just arsey and have no patience!

I think it is unreasonable of him to be as critical as you seem to think he is. It might be a case of you reading critical messages into things that he says however? You will find this difficult to sort out with your own MH issues.

I have MH problems (bipolar, I think) and issues with my own childhood. On top of this my H has huge issues regarding his own upbringing, abusive father, alcoholic mother etc.
When I went for therapy initially it was tough, but afterwards H was quite dreadful fairly often re. my mental health and it would be dragged out in any discussion where I tried to make the point that he was actually being unreasonable ('well, I'm not the one that's mental' etc.).
Then things got horribly worse between us when children arrived, and finally I managed to get him to see how his behaviour was affecting us. We are both having our own separate therapy now and it has helped enormously. When I look back to how things were a year ago, and compare it to now we have gotten so far (still further to go). The difference is my H finally saw that he needed help. If he had not been committed to the process, I doubt it would have had any effect.
Re: approval/criticism - You might indeed be desperate for his approval, however, this does not mean that he is not overly critical either.
I understand your need for him to be part of your therapy journey, because you see it as critical for your relationship but it sounds to me as though you desperately need help yourself as soon as you can.
If he doesn't want to engage, go without him. It will help you see things more clearly and ease the self-doubting.
You can only fix yourself, no matter how much you want the other person to be fixed too.

Sorry that this is a bit all over the shop, hope you can make some sense of what I'm on about.

Hello RudeEnglish - yes I'm back already, DCs being suspiciously good about bedtime tonight, hmmm!

You are not hindering my thought processes in the least! Quite the opposite, you've given me bags of food for thought and made me feel really energised and positive about working through all this. So I owe you a big thankyou!

I would love love love for DP's good opinion not to be the be all and end all. The day after the big family event when he gave his big list of complaints, I would love to be able to seperate him feeling unappreciated/thinking I was rude/etc from feeling good about myself for how I conducted myself. But now I know he was unhappy and thinks I "did badly" I can't feel good about myself for the rest of it. Gah! Put like that it's sounding like a self-esteem issue and it's always going to be a losing battle to look to someone else to provide that, isn't it.

I will try being cheeky/jokey next time. My current tactic is to sort of pull him up on it/say "what are you hoping to achieve with that?" and then burst into tears so a sharp remark or two would be a good thing!

it gives me hope that you've felt like this in the past and have worked through it

newnamethistime Hi, thankyou so much for your post. I think you've hit on the crux of it - I think I must be placing unreasonable importance on his criticisms and possibly seeing it where it's not intended, but also when he IS critical, I think it would be helpful if he'd try to change the way he phrases it. Hence thinking couples counselling would be a magic bullet - I'll shelve that idea for now though.

You're all dead right and I should focus on myself first of all. For my DCs I need to find coping strategies and get less raw about stuff.

Interesting about your DH. My DP had a very traumatic upbringing looking at it from the outside in but it all seems water off a duck's back - I think the keyword here is seems, but if he's found a way to compartmentalise it could be why he gets SO impatient and frustrated with my inability to do the same. Much as I think 'my way' (analysing everything to death), is better than his (avoid avoid avoid avoid).

Now I need to concentrate on not just weeping my way through all my therapy appointments when I get them. That'd be a good start. I get so defensive/weepy, even just at the GP, it's awful - I think I'm ashamed?

Sorry for the essay - more of a book now isn't it. If only I could talk like this IRL!