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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help - long, boring, self-indulgent, but I'm going slowly mad

30 replies

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 10:53

I don?t really know where to start. DH and I have had our difficulties over the years (together 9), much intensified by birth of DC1 but, if I?m honest, evident before that. We probably both have considerable psychological issues ? he would certainly claim that mine are at least as responsible as his, though from an admittedly equally subjective viewpoint, I would beg to differ. Do I love him? I don?t know. He?s a wonderful father, and absolutely dotes on his children, who worship him. He is a slave to his ego, to the point that even his brilliant parenting has to be demonstrated to me all the time ? he has to be the best at everything, he has to show me how to do things, he is usually unwilling or unable to take my advice or listen to my perspective. To me, it appears he finds it very difficult to defer and has practically no humility. He has historically had difficulty with work relationships and his mother claims he?s never been able to take criticism. He responds extremely defensively and aggressively to my suggestions, certainly. The thing is, I think I understand it, and I feel sorry for him. He has so little self-worth that he has to shout it, he has to assert himself. His insecurity is probably partly my responsibility, in a passive way ? I am cleverer than he is, I make friends more easily, and I had a much better paying job than he did, so we?re living off savings I earned (which doesn?t matter to me at all, but he grew up in a very traditional Dad-at-work-Mum-at-home family). When I imagine us not being together, after concern for the kids and the practicalities, my primary response is relief. Why would I be relieved? Because I could do things on my own terms, without feeling like I was being observed, marked and judged on everything. To confuse things, he makes exactly the same complaints about me, and I can see his point of view (I do like things to be done a certain way, but this way is usually driven more, I think, by considered research, deferral to people whose opinions I consider better informed etc. than his is). Our circumstances are quite unique so I can?t really post too much detail in the OP for fear of identifying myself IRL. Neither of us has been working for a year (I know, lucky us), and we?ve been living in challenging circumstances, so I should take into consideration the mitigations ? we spend a lot of time together, we are effectively sharing the role of primary carer, which is perhaps a difficult thing to do for anyone, but I can?t shake my suspicion that other people would manage to do this with more compromise, fewer arguments, less pain. I also worry that we?re not only transferring (or projecting, or whatever you call it), but that we are absorbing each others personality traits in self-defence. I find myself boxed in in most of our arguments, primarily because there is zero possibility of triangulation. I am willing to hear his point of view, but I think it?s wrong ? he is determined it?s right, but to him that?s not stalemate, that?s triumph. A lot of his arguments I find strange, and his logic backwards ? things have to be this way, because of the implications of them not being. I just find myself exhausted all the time, I have so little energy to get into discussions with him, which I usually concede through fatigue. I find myself fantasising about life on my own, living with the kids (two, aged 2 and 4). I?m probably crazy, though ? I think I?d find it really hard, he?s probably more of a natural parent than I am (or he certainly seems to think he is, from the advice he constantly lays on me).
OK, so what of this is one-sided. He?s not here to represent himself, so what would he say? He?d say that I?m too driven by rationality, that I impose my views unflinchingly and won?t compromise (to which I would respond that I compromise all the time, he simply rebases his expectations so he?s unable to see my compromises) ? could give concrete examples. I find I am often doing things I?m uncomfortable with ? I think he?s a bully and have told him so. He says I?m too sensitive. I find his common rhetorical tools like ?don?t get upset?, ?don?t be angry?, ?let it go? to be essentially bullying ? that?s just telling someone what to do, right? The thing is, he?s NOT a total arsehole. In many respects, he?s a wonderful man. He does put me down quite a lot, and appear to relish my failures (e.g. if I lose something, cock something up ? if he does the same I just don?t need or want to make him feel shit about it, whereas he will be all huff huff it?s the end of the world, look what a disaster you?ve made), but I don?t doubt (which may sound strange) that he loves me in his way. At least when he?s nice I know he?s being honest. It bugs me that upsetting me is not a reason not to do something for him. Maybe that?s wrong, though. Maybe I just don?t doubt that he would be at a total loss without me. And I guess, if I?m honest, the only thing stopping me leaving him is worrying about what he would do, how it would work with the kids, how distraught he would be and how I would cope with having done that to someone (I?m kind of prone to guilt and anxiety, always have been). I?m not THAT unhappy. I?m pretty happy about half the time, though I do find I am less and less able to access what I actually want. This is partly in relation to our strange circumstances, of which more anon.
To add into the mix, I have incredibly strong feelings for someone else. This is probably the fourth person with whom I?ve (theoretically) considered cheating, dating back nearly six years (when DH and I about to move in together). Crushes have increased in intensity and longevity, to the point where I?ve been struggling with this one for at least two years. Nothing at all improper has ever happened, but I?m bothered by the extent of my theoretical infidelity. How can I expect him to treat me properly when in my head I?m sleeping with other people? Particularly in this case, the person in question is a mutual friend, and I often feel when we?re together that my desire is painfully obvious. I would not for a second consider leaving DH for this person ? I have no reason to believe my feelings are in the least bit reciprocated, and anyway there are other obstacles to our being together, and anyway I?m alert to the possibility that my obsession is a fabrication, a manifestation of what I?m missing and a projection onto this person of the things I think I?m not getting from DH (whatever they are). I feel like maybe I?m picking fights, searching for difficulties, being excessively negative (he always tells me I?m too negative) about our relationship in an attempt to justify my emotional straying.
I?m at the stage where I don?t actually know how I?m functioning because there?s such a maelstrom in my head. I have no idea what to do, so I just keep on keeping on, making plans, pretending everything?s fine, then bursting into tears when I?m driving on my own. But I must stress, I don?t feel that unhappy all the time. Compared to some or maybe even most people?s lives, mine is a picnic. I have healthy children, we have enough money, we live in an extraordinary place. When I think about being with him forever, though, it feels intensely constraining. When I go to a wedding, I think ?I never felt like that about him?. I can never regret anything that?s happened because I have my two extraordinary children, but I do feel guilty for having gone ahead and had them when I already had some reservations.
Am I in danger of leaving paradise in search of utopia? Do I suffer from nothing but ridiculously high expectations? What am I comparing this to? In my head, I escape to a plain flat, a simple place where the kids and I can live on my own terms. The other person isn?t in it ? I don?t visualise a family life with a neat transplant. At sane times, I can see that my feelings for him have at the very least to be assessed in a more balanced framework.
Have I even asked any questions? I don?t know. Fuck. Well, I guess it?s helped writing it down. I?m worried I?ve been too negative, though, that I haven?t been representative, that I?m being morose and misrepresentative because? why? I don?t know. I?m a glutton for punishment. I don?t think I deserve to be happy so I?m making up reasons to torpedo a perfectly functional relationship. From the outside, I think everyone thinks we?re great, although I am probably too open with other people when we?re having problems, I?ve always shared like that. My friends mean the world to me, and I do tell them most things, which has always been a problem for DH, as has how much I involve myself in their lives, care for them when they have problems etc. Likewise family ? I am much closer to my siblings and parents than he is, and he gets annoyed with me, e.g. will criticise something I?m saying on the phone to my sister (our lifestyle doesn?t afford us much privacy).
I am frustrating myself by just slagging him off ? I?m sure there must be more positive things I can say. We have sex a lot, which I enjoy, though wouldn?t ever initiate if it weren?t to please him (that I have initiated) ? I feel like I have very little sex drive (although was a walking hormone recently when spending innocent time with OM, prob hornier than I?ve been for about eight years!). He is actually looking really good. I guess my question is ? I feel like if this even is a shit situation, I?ve got myself into it, and it?s my responsibility. It?s not so shit that I have a responsibility to myself and my kids to get out of it. I find myself wishing sometimes (god, this is going to sound fucked up) that he would cheat, or move over to physical violence, because that would end the doubt, draw a line, give me the excuse I need.
Help, MN! What do I do? I think I want responses like ?stop being an overanalytical precious twat, thank heaven for what you have, and grow up and stop getting teenage crushes?, so don?t hold back.

OP posts:
ABitBatty · 30/06/2010 10:57

Whooaahhh! Some paragraphs please!

premium · 30/06/2010 10:59

could only read the first 3 lines and it made my eyes sore

Sorry

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:01

shit. ok. should I repost or what? didn't realise it would come out like that.

OP posts:
pavlovalover · 30/06/2010 11:07

Well. Not sure I got everything from that - there is a lot to digest - but I did get that you don't seem to love him, enjoy each other's company or gain anything for yourself from the relationship. In fact it doesn't sound like you like him much at all.

And that you have many, many reasons to justify to yourself why you want to end it. But you feel guilty making that step when others might think you should be grateful for what you have.

A "perfectly functional relationship" to some people might be adequate. But it doesn't sound like it is to you.

Which leaves you with the options of sticking with it, trying to change it into something you do want (which you obviously can't do alone), or leaving it.

What does your DH think of the state of your relationship? Is it something you can talk about?

mumblechum · 30/06/2010 11:08

Paragraphs pls

NicknameTaken · 30/06/2010 11:10

It sounds like you're going round and round in your own head, so would there be any chance of doing some counselling, perhaps for yourself first and then (if you decide to try to make this work) together? You're in some pretty unhealthy patterns with each other, but if both of you really want to and are willing to work at it, there are ways of breaking those patterns.

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:13

Thank you so much! Thought I was going to have finally done something I've been working up to for about two years only to see it fall off the bottom of the page! Thanks for making it through. Tried to write more stream of consciousness as wanted my real feelings to be coming out, but was prob at the expense of intelligibility.

I think you're right. I think it's more that I don't respect him, and I don't know how to break that. I'm really bad at being forgiving and a lot of this stems from DD2 was tiny - she didn't sleep at all and he was SO unsupportive, just told me I was being stupid all the time, couldn't even give me a hug and say he felt for me let alone sacrifice one of his eight hours - now I just see that as symptomatic and I think I've got in really destructive/negative patterns of perceiving him.

Isn't it awful to force your kids into a broken family because something that would be adequate to other people isn't to me? Isn't that the height of selfishness? I just read some other threads on here and realised my title is pretty appropriate.

OP posts:
proudnsad · 30/06/2010 11:14

Hey I read it all!!
will post properly soon but in short, no I don't think you are a precious twat. And it's hard to count blessings when you are not sure you love your husband.
This sounds very mid-lifey if you don't mind me saying esp at weddings thinking I've never felt like that. Most people haven't - the bride and groom most probably don't fucking feel like that!!
But I think the crux is whether you love him, or if you have no real feelings for him. That's very hard to live with.
Myself and dh argue and lock horns but we love each other totally - but NOT in a running through the meadows, can't keep our hands off each other way.
More later. Feel bad for you feeling like this...don't feel bad for feeling bad!

Anniegetyourgun · 30/06/2010 11:16

I'm made of sterner stuff than those wimps - I read it all! #polishes nails on sleeve coolly#

Well, you could be being overly harsh on your DH, but actually it sounds as if you're bending over backwards to put his point of view and to look at the positives in your relationship.

It must be kind of smothering to be together 24/7 and of course that puts pressure on any relationship. Suppose you only saw each other for a few hours every evening, when you could listen to how much better he did his job than those other arseholes at the office, and make supportive noises; you'd get on a lot better than now, when the only person he has to compare himself favourably to is you. Still, you are where you are, and frankly it sounds very wearing. Not horrible and hideous, but so not fun. And so not like an equal, respectful partnership.

I agree your DH does sound like he has many good aspects and you understand how the bad aspects come about. But you know what: however much you understand and even pity, it doesn't necessarily make someone any easier to live with.

Can I just ask a question here (though fairly sure what the answer will be)? He says you don't compromise but you believe that you do. Does he believe that he makes compromises? Does he believe he should compromise? About anything, ever?

btw I'm fairly convinced your analysis of why you have crushes is correct. The fact that your dearest fantasy involves a bit of peace and quiet, rather than a love nest with the crush-object, suggests this is so. You may even find if you were free to pursue that relationship you wouldn't even want to. Still, that's probably one for a psychoanalyst, not an unqualified mum off the internet!

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:18

ok, with paras

I don?t really know where to start. DH and I have had our difficulties over the years (together 9), much intensified by birth of DC1 but, if I?m honest, evident before that. We probably both have considerable psychological issues ? he would certainly claim that mine are at least as responsible as his, though from an admittedly equally subjective viewpoint, I would beg to differ.

Do I love him? I don?t know. He?s a wonderful father, and absolutely dotes on his children, who worship him. He is a slave to his ego, to the point that even his brilliant parenting has to be demonstrated to me all the time ? he has to be the best at everything, he has to show me how to do things, he is usually unwilling or unable to take my advice or listen to my perspective. To me, it appears he finds it very difficult to defer and has practically no humility. He has historically had difficulty with work relationships and his mother claims he?s never been able to take criticism. He responds extremely defensively and aggressively to my suggestions, certainly.

The thing is, I think I understand it, and I feel sorry for him. He has so little self-worth that he has to shout it, he has to assert himself. His insecurity is probably partly my responsibility, in a passive way ? I am cleverer than he is, I make friends more easily, and I had a much better paying job than he did, so we?re living off savings I earned (which doesn?t matter to me at all, but he grew up in a very traditional Dad-at-work-Mum-at-home family).

When I imagine us not being together, after concern for the kids and the practicalities, my primary response is relief. Why would I be relieved? Because I could do things on my own terms, without feeling like I was being observed, marked and judged on everything. To confuse things, he makes exactly the same complaints about me, and I can see his point of view (I do like things to be done a certain way, but this way is usually driven more, I think, by considered research, deferral to people whose opinions I consider better informed etc. than his is).

Our circumstances are quite unique so I can?t really post too much detail in the OP for fear of identifying myself IRL. Neither of us has been working for a year (I know, lucky us), and we?ve been living in challenging circumstances, so I should take into consideration the mitigations ? we spend a lot of time together, we are effectively sharing the role of primary carer, which is perhaps a difficult thing to do for anyone, but I can?t shake my suspicion that other people would manage to do this with more compromise, fewer arguments, less pain. I also worry that we?re not only transferring (or projecting, or whatever you call it), but that we are absorbing each others personality traits in self-defence. I find myself boxed in in most of our arguments, primarily because there is zero possibility of triangulation. I am willing to hear his point of view, but I think it?s wrong ? he is determined it?s right, but to him that?s not stalemate, that?s triumph.

A lot of his arguments I find strange, and his logic backwards ? things have to be this way, because of the implications of them not being. I just find myself exhausted all the time, I have so little energy to get into discussions with him, which I usually concede through fatigue. I find myself fantasising about life on my own, living with the kids (two, aged 2 and 4). I?m probably crazy, though ? I think I?d find it really hard, he?s probably more of a natural parent than I am (or he certainly seems to think he is, from the advice he constantly lays on me).

OK, so what of this is one-sided. He?s not here to represent himself, so what would he say? He?d say that I?m too driven by rationality, that I impose my views unflinchingly and won?t compromise (to which I would respond that I compromise all the time, he simply rebases his expectations so he?s unable to see my compromises) ? could give concrete examples. I find I am often doing things I?m uncomfortable with ? I think he?s a bully and have told him so. He says I?m too sensitive. I find his common rhetorical tools like ?don?t get upset?, ?don?t be angry?, ?let it go? to be essentially bullying ? that?s just telling someone what to do, right?

The thing is, he?s NOT a total arsehole. In many respects, he?s a wonderful man. He does put me down quite a lot, and appear to relish my failures (e.g. if I lose something, cock something up ? if he does the same I just don?t need or want to make him feel shit about it, whereas he will be all huff huff it?s the end of the world, look what a disaster you?ve made), but I don?t doubt (which may sound strange) that he loves me in his way. Maybe that?s wrong, though. Maybe I just don?t doubt that he would be at a total loss without me. And I guess, if I?m honest, the only thing stopping me leaving him is worrying about what he would do, how it would work with the kids, how distraught he would be and how I would cope with having done that to someone (I?m kind of prone to guilt and anxiety, always have been).

BUT I?m not THAT unhappy. I?m pretty happy about half the time, though I do find I am less and less able to access what I actually want. This is partly in relation to our strange circumstances, of which more anon.

To add into the mix, I have incredibly strong feelings for someone else. This is probably the fourth person with whom I?ve (theoretically) considered cheating, dating back nearly six years (when DH and I about to move in together). Crushes have increased in intensity and longevity, to the point where I?ve been struggling with this one for at least two years. Nothing at all improper has ever happened, but I?m bothered by the extent of my theoretical infidelity. How can I expect him to treat me properly when in my head I?m sleeping with other people? Particularly in this case, the person in question is a mutual friend, and I often feel when we?re together that my desire is painfully obvious. I would not for a second consider leaving DH for this person ? I have no reason to believe my feelings are in the least bit reciprocated, and anyway there are other obstacles to our being together, and anyway I?m alert to the possibility that my obsession is a fabrication, a manifestation of what I?m missing and a projection onto this person of the things I think I?m not getting from DH (whatever they are). I feel like maybe I?m picking fights, searching for difficulties, being excessively negative (he always tells me I?m too negative) about our relationship in an attempt to justify my emotional straying.

I?m at the stage where I don?t actually know how I?m functioning because there?s such a maelstrom in my head. I have no idea what to do, so I just keep on keeping on, making plans, pretending everything?s fine, then bursting into tears when I?m driving on my own. But I must stress, I don?t feel that unhappy all the time. Compared to some or maybe even most people?s lives, mine is a picnic. I have healthy children, we have enough money, we live in an extraordinary place. When I think about being with him forever, though, it feels intensely constraining. When I go to a wedding, I think ?I never felt like that about him?. I can never regret anything that?s happened because I have my two extraordinary children, but I do feel guilty for having gone ahead and had them when I already had some reservations.

Am I in danger of leaving paradise in search of utopia? Do I suffer from nothing but ridiculously high expectations? What am I comparing this to? In my head, I escape to a plain flat, a simple place where the kids and I can live on my own terms. The other person isn?t in it ? I don?t visualise a family life with a neat transplant. At sane times, I can see that my feelings for him have at the very least to be assessed in a more balanced framework.

Have I even asked any questions? I don?t know. Fuck. Well, I guess it?s helped writing it down. I?m worried I?ve been too negative, though, that I haven?t been representative, that I?m being morose and misrepresentative because? why? I don?t know. I?m a glutton for punishment. I don?t think I deserve to be happy so I?m making up reasons to torpedo a perfectly functional relationship. From the outside, I think everyone thinks we?re great, although I am probably too open with other people when we?re having problems, I?ve always shared like that. My friends mean the world to me, and I do tell them most things, which has always been a problem for DH, as has how much I involve myself in their lives, care for them when they have problems etc. Likewise family ? I am much closer to my siblings and parents than he is, and he gets annoyed with me, e.g. will criticise something I?m saying on the phone to my sister (our lifestyle doesn?t afford us much privacy).

I am frustrating myself by just slagging him off ? I?m sure there must be more positive things I can say. We have sex a lot, which I enjoy, though wouldn?t ever initiate if it weren?t to please him (that I have initiated) ? I feel like I have very little sex drive (although was a walking hormone recently when spending innocent time with OM, prob hornier than I?ve been for about eight years!). He is actually looking really good.

I guess my question is ? I feel like if this even is a shit situation, I?ve got myself into it, and it?s my responsibility. It?s not so shit that I have a responsibility to myself and my kids to get out of it. I find myself wishing sometimes (god, this is going to sound fucked up) that he would cheat, or move over to physical violence, because that would end the doubt, draw a line, give me the excuse I need.

Help, MN! What do I do? I think I want responses like ?stop being an overanalytical precious twat, thank heaven for what you have, and grow up and stop getting teenage crushes?, so don?t hold back.

[Officially consigns 'stream of consciousness' posting style to the bin]

OP posts:
pavlovalover · 30/06/2010 11:22

I've been through very similar with my DH over the past couple of years(much of what you said is very similar to our marriage).I finally dragged him to Relate, and I have to say it has made a difference. We're still working on it and I don't know if it will fix our marriage but I now understand so much more about what has happened over the past couple of years, why he has behaved like he has, and how my expectations for an intimate relationship are valid and reasonable. I would highly recommend it.

Again, what does your DH think about all this? Does he want anything different?

Oh, and what also helped is that I stopped thinking about how I was forcing my kids into a broken family and denying them the opportunity to live within a happy marriage if I took action. That already wasn't their reality (and it isn't, from the sounds of it, for your children either).

Anniegetyourgun · 30/06/2010 11:22

Hmm, cross posted with yours about the difficulty with DD2's sleeping. That doesn't sound one bit like a chap who's a brilliant parent. It sounds like someone who leaves it all to their partner and then tells them how much better they would have done it, if only they'd actually done anything. Also known as "Mr Know-it-all" or "A self-centred arse". I'm not too sure there is a positive way of viewing that.

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:24

No, I don't believe that he makes compromises. I don't think he really understands how to. He would only ever do anything that I wanted him to do but he didn't want to do under extreme duress. I actually think he can't SEE the world outside his own opinion, he won't let himself believe he could ever be wrong, make a mistake, cock something up, his insecurity is that deep-rooted. This is why in a way it's hard to be angry, and impossible not to cuss myself for not being understanding enough. But we've got to the stage where I don't even like myself when I'm with him because I buckle, and I say horrible things that I regret, and I hurt him - as much as I want to be, I'm NOT strong and selfless enough to put him first and understand his point of view all the time. And of course I have an indignant kid inside saying 'and why should I? what example is that setting for my daughters?'

OP posts:
amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:29

We did go to Relate, once. I think he went because I wanted him to, and then he thought it was done. We're now living abroad, and anyway any attempt I make to say 'can we go to counselling again?' is treated as a diss - 'I'm trying so hard, just when I think it's working well and we really love each other, you go and kick me in the guts by telling me you need to go to counselling and I STILL haven't made up for [insert chosen token transgression] - have you got any idea how much that hurts me? You really ought to be able to get over it.' Maybe this is because I say 'I think I'm still having difficulties, perhaps I would be able to be more positive if we went back to counselling' - maybe I'm just a dick to take the responsibility onto myself? I feel like it's the only chance I have to get him to listen. As I said, one of his massive problems is accepting responsibility, this is evident in loads of his behaviour and I understand it in the context of his insecurity. In truth, though, and I guess this is why we go round in circles, I DO think he is responsible for most of our difficulties. I have functional positive relationships with lots of people, he doesn't. He had to leave his work because he couldn't get on with people. But I can't throw that evidence in his face, that's just mean.

Sorry this is really unstructured, thanks for listening. Xx

OP posts:
amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:36

Yes, am sure it is mid-lifey! Think I just went to one wedding recently where the bride and groom actually do... (my second crush, as it happens, am nothing but delighted for him! )

I think the problem is I'm pretty sure I don't love him, but I feel terribly, terribly guilty about it. I don't feel like I want to work at it, I feel like I would be doing it for the kids (and obviously I will do it for them!)

I have had real anxiety issues/insomnia for seven months now - it's definitely physically impacting my life. The thing is, to do anything we have to move back home, and whilst I think I probably want to (hard to know as have tried very hard to come online with him as he really doesn't want to, and we do have an amazing life here on paper), he doesn't, so I can't see how that isn't a rotten starting point. It's pathetic that I can't even let myself think 'I don't want to be here'.

OP posts:
pavlovalover · 30/06/2010 11:39

You need to decide what you want. Sorry to talk about my experience again, but after years of wallowing in this, I decided I either wanted a decent happy emotionally supportive marriage. Or no marriage. And I made myself very very clear to my DH on this. No crying, accusations etc. It was enough to make him listen finally.

Can you get to that point yourself? Counselling just for you might help you get work out what you actually want. But ultimately you will both need to take responsibility for fixing it or ending it.

Is there anyone he will listen to? My DH sounds very similar and is scathing of emotional, counselling types. And very resentful of ideas that he might have to change or take responsibility. I finally involved his brother, who reinforced what I was saying. His brother telling him he needed to wake up to himself made a huge difference. Is that an option?

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:40

aah, please come back! have to go and won't be online again for prob two weeks.

OP posts:
pavlovalover · 30/06/2010 11:42

Why do you have to move back home to work on your issues?

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:44

God no, please do - I want to hear about other people's experiences! I find them relevant.

I think - I guess I worry how hurt he'd be that I said that, he wants to believe our marriage IS happy and emotionally supportive. When he argues with me in front of the kids (in spite of me repeatedly asking him not to) and DD1 says 'please stop talking like that, Daddy' he will actually say 'we're not arguing' - he honestly can't see the difference between what he thinks and the objective truth. He doesn't believe in objective truth. So if he believes something, it's true - at least at the level of consciousness he will allow himself to access.

Not sure re someone else. Will think. No obvious candidates spring to mind, certainly not brother. Or parents.

OP posts:
proudnsad · 30/06/2010 11:44

He clearly doesn't realise how rock bottom you are feeling. Dismissing your attempts to make him see you are having grave misgivings about the marriage suggests just that.
A radical/controversial thought...tell him you're not sure if you love him? I'm not sure if that's cruel, pointless...or helpful in making him sit and up and listen?
But when he's sat up and listened, do you want to try to heal and mend or deep down have you given up on your marriage?
It's an agonising situation, don't think it isn't, just because you're financially secure and living in physical paradise.

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:45

to get counselling, I think we'd have to be at home. no way we could do (or understand) it here.

OP posts:
amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:51

I don't know. I feel like deep down I have given up. I don't think he has any idea. He is SUCH hard work and I feel I just don't have the energy, or I don't want to use it on this. But that's shit. These are my children. You're right, though - what they have now is not perfect. It's just more conventional.

OP posts:
pavlovalover · 30/06/2010 11:52

Has it ever been good? Or just okay?

Have a read of this - it might be relevant: signs emotional intimacy is suffering in a marriage

Probably a rubbish source, but it rang true for me, especially the bits about one spouse being happy with the ways things are, while resentment grows for the other.

amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:53

oh, and re his parenting, no, he is hands on with them, does loads of activities, much less hamstrung by e.g. mess than obsessional me. but where we differ in opinion he just tells me his as if it's true. he also tells me 'facts' about the children, which I find fucking irritating. Not that he's telling me stuff about them, that's great, but his manner is uniquely patronising.

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amimakingitup · 30/06/2010 11:57

Also, I think I fear that telling him how deep my doubts are will be a genie out of the bottle moment. He's too proud to recover from the revelation that I might not love him - i.e. his response would be 'well fuck you then'. But I guess it has to happen at some point? I don't think I've ever hurt anyone like that before.

It was good, I think - I can't remember now, really. I had liked him for a while, he was cool and sexy and haughty and different, then we got together and I think (having been single for years) I was maybe a bit too grateful to work out whether we actually had a great time or not. I was really insecure and paranoid and always just delighted he wasn't leaving me. A friend the other day who is about to get married said 'I do have doubts - I think are we strong enough, are we like you two?' and I just wanted to cry!

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