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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Want to separate from emotionally abusive partner but don't know whether counselling would help?

28 replies

malinkey · 25/06/2010 09:03

A bit of background - I've been with OH for 8 years and have got to the point where I don't want to be here any more. We have a DS who is 2. I have realised (mainly from reading on here) that he is abusive and controlling and since the scales have fallen from my eyes I can't see him in a good light any more so can't see any future with him.

I want to split up but I want to do it in the least acrimonious way possible - I do realise that this may be impossible - but I want the best possible outcome for DS.

I suggested some time ago that we went to couples counselling, but this was before I had really understood what was going on. I have since seen many times on here that it is not recommended to do counselling together in these situations. BUT I wonder if it might be beneficial for me to be able to tell him in front of another person how I feel - so he might have to at least appear to listen to me - and maybe more importantly so I can say to him that I have tried everything and he might be more amenable to us splitting up and so be a better parent to DS.

Or am I kidding myself? Would it be better just to try and have a clean break? Since I told him I wasn't happy about our 'relationship' OH has been acting really affectionately and is suddenly around a lot more and wanting to 'be together' and I'm finding it all a bit suffocating.

Please let me know what you think.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/06/2010 09:26

No, make a clean break asap from him. He is only acting nice like he is now to doubt your intentions further to leave. It is all just an act, the mask will soon slip and he will revert back to type.

Your OH would talk over you in any counselling session so any joint counselling would be a waste of time. It will not be at all beneficial for you to talk to a counsellor in front of him. He would likely not attend any such sessions anyway because he feels he has done nothing wrong.

Counselling for you SOLELY longer term would be helpful so you can recognise the warning signs properly of an emotionally abusive and controlling relationship.

With regards to your DS I would put in place asap formal contact arrangements through the courts. No informal agreement will suffice here because he will likely break it or try and break you down. Everything has to be written down and made official. Seek legal advice for yourself re the property and finances.

dizietsma · 25/06/2010 09:29

What do you think would be gained from telling him how you feel in a counselling session that you couldn't get from simply writing a letter? If you want to split anyway why go to counselling? If he is abusive he wont let go of you easily and is ulikely to say "Well fair enough, you tried everything so I guess we'll call it a day", right? It's ultimately not your responsibility to make him a better parent for your DS, though I do understand wanting that for your DS.

Miggsie · 25/06/2010 09:38

Go to therapy, but BY YOURSELF.

If you look at the emotional abuse threads you will find that when abusers go to couples therapy they use it as more ammunition to carry on the abuse, often, they manipulate the therapist and make things even worse. Emotional manipulators do it by instinct, don't think it is wrong, and do not want to change.

If you check out the cycle of abuse you will find that it is classic behaviour for an abuser to become "nice" for a while to soften you up if you show unhappiness. Then he'll go straight back to how he used to be once he thinks you won't leave. The "nice" is an act, it is not real.

newnamethistime · 25/06/2010 09:43

Another here for individual counselling for you.
It's just not worth it (joint counselling), you might end up getting confused/bamboozled/feeling guilty etc. I'm speaking from experience unfortunately.

NicknameTaken · 25/06/2010 11:33

I would vote against it also. After a few sessions, our Relate counsellor refused to see it. Also, I got grief from my ex for "telling lies" about him and making him look bad.

thumbwitch · 25/06/2010 11:38

I would also not recommend it - because as Nicknametaken says, he will see it that you are telling lies about him and showing him up - this will not make it easier for you, it will make it much harder.

You might think that you would get some "closure" and understanding from him if you get to tell him exactly what he has put you through - but chances are he knows that and doesn't actually care - or he wouldn't do it.

Please don't put yourself through it - you'll end up feeling even worse because he will twist everything, make you doubt yourself and do his best to show you at a total disadvantage to the counsellor - not worth it.

NicknameTaken · 25/06/2010 11:40

counsellor refused to see "us" not "it".

maltesers · 25/06/2010 11:51

To be honest, my Ex was emotionally abusive and controlling and in the end became physically abusive and we went to councelling and it didnt help at all, , ,he never practiced the ideas our therapist put to us each week and he never changed. I left him in the endafter 8 years with my s6 yr old DS. Sadly Ds sees Ex most weekends. I hate him and wished i never had to see him again, as he hurt me so much but for the sake of DS i have to.
I hope you manage to sort out what you want to do. If you think Councelling might help then give it a try . .at least then you will know you tried to work things out. Your Dp is only acting from fear of course ATM cos he suspect you may leave. .

ChocolatePants · 25/06/2010 11:55

I went to therapy by mayself, and eventually came to realise a lot of my problems were to do with the destructive relationship with my DH.
It helped me to be strong and stay strong, and realise my own self- worth.

hth

iso · 25/06/2010 12:16

I was in an abusive relationship prior to the one I'm in now. (Gosh, was a long time ago now, I realise). I'm another one saying, if you want to - go into therapy for yourself but like others here, I don't support the idea of couple counselling if one of the partner's is abusive.

The priority here is you, your son and your safety. A good therapist will listen to you, support you, won't judge and give you the space to process all the pretty complex and contradictory feelings you probably have about him and yourself right now.

malinkey · 25/06/2010 14:03

Sounds like a consensus then! Thanks for all your replies, that's very helpful. I really wish I'd discovered this site years ago.

Yes, I really would like to go to counselling on my own as this is not the first unhealthy relationship I've been in and I never want to get involved in another one. And I'm beginning to realise that not everyone would have made the choices that I've made or put up with what I've put up with. I just really thought this relationship was different but now I understand why I've been so confused and unhappy for so long.

I know that going to couples counselling won't improve our relationship - particularly since OH agreed that he had a problem with anger and then screamed and shouted at me about how he wasn't going to take responsibility for everything. So, I can envisage him trying to twist things round and lying.

Nickname why did your counsellor refuse to see you?

Guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and do it. Am bit worried about it all though, especially as our house is in a right mess due to all his knocking down walls DIY, so isn't really in the best state to sell but we can't afford to carry on living here. Will get some legal advice before I talk to him.

OP posts:
NicknameTaken · 25/06/2010 14:33

Relate has a policy that it won't see couples where there is abuse. Counselling works when both parties are open to looking at their part in the dynamic and making a change. Abusers aren't keen to do this - they're all about blaming you. Plus it can be dangerous when the abuser realizes his victim is telling another person what happened.

I wish I'd known that at the time. They just refused to see us and wouldn't tell me why. I didn't even realize that what I'd said in the session amounted to abuse. It took individual counselling for me to realize that.

iso · 25/06/2010 15:09

Malinkey, one thing I know, is that some of the most intelligent, trustworthy, insightful, compassionate and strong women I've come across and am friends with, have come from abusive and destructive families and/or relationships. If it hadn't been for some of them, I'm not sure I'd have been able to make the choices I made and continue to make.

SO, it's great that you're realising what's going on in your life right now and yeah, it's always useful to look at why this has happened to you, what your choices have been and your part in it but just be careful not to turn that introspection into another way of criticising and beating yourself up. I imagine you have enough of that from your husband right now.

It's not always easy to spot abusive relationships when you're in them. If it were they wouldn't be so prevalent.

Your husband's behaviour is not your fault. I imagine he'd be like this with any woman. and I know, knowing that doesn't make it easier, it can make it feel worse sometimes so well done for seeing what's going on. I think that's a huge and brave step in itself.

malinkey · 26/06/2010 20:55

Nickname I'm amazed that a counsellor would see an abusive relationship and not intimate to you in some way that that's what it was!

iso thank you for your kind words. I do know that it's not my fault but in previous relationships I have felt guilty/responsible for stuff that wasn't my doing so I am particularly determined not to take responsibility for my husband's behaviour and that seems to be helping. Having DS I think has given me the oomph I need to face up to the situation as I really do want the best for him and staying here isn't the answer.

Since being on here I've spoken to a few people in RL and I've been incredibly touched by all of their reactions and I know that whatever happens we will have support if/when we need it. We have been offered places to stay if needs be. So that is helping me get my plans in place to leave. As scary as all the financial and practical stuff is I know we will be ok - once it is over - but am just scared about the actual leaving bit and telling OH.

OP posts:
iso · 27/06/2010 10:01

I'm glad people are being supportive in real life. It can make all the difference. It sounds like you've got some people around you who really care about what happens to you.

Yeah, it does feel scary, I really understand that. Are you planning on leaving then telling him? Or having the conversation first?

malinkey · 27/06/2010 12:24

I'm planning to tell him first. I have already told him (several times) that I've been unhappy for a long time so it's only another step to say that it's over. I don't know how he will react but he does put a lot of importance on what other people think/keeping up appearances so am hoping that that alone will make him do the 'right thing' and move out.

The tricky bit is we need to do some more work to our house before we can put it on the market as it's in such a mess that no one would buy it in its current state and we can't afford to stay here long term - we are in debt because of his insistence that we had to do expensive renovation works and so have been struggling to live here for the last couple of years anyway.

I can see the light at the end of the tunnel but know the next few months aren't going to be easy. And yes, having supportive people around will really help.

What happened in your case iso?

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 27/06/2010 12:33

Make sure you have the supportive people close at hand (maybe even in the house with you) when you tell this man his sorry arse is dumped.
Unfortunately, abusers very, very often become dangerous when their victims stand up to them. Even though he hasn't physically attacked you yet, he might do so when you say you are leaving. Get all your plans in place (carefully - dn't let anything slip) first.

malinkey · 27/06/2010 12:43

Thanks for the advice SGB. I am aware that this often happens and I am planning on getting my plans ready before I tell him, though the way he's acting all suffocating loving I think he suspects what's coming.

I might be naive but I'm hoping his concern about what other people think would stop him becoming violent even if he wanted to - he wouldn't be able to face his parents if they knew he'd done something like that and their opinion is really important to him. But it is horrible knowing that it could be a possibility.

OP posts:
iso · 27/06/2010 16:46

Malinkey, I agree with SGB.

Sorry this is really long . I?ve described my situation a bit more, just so you know where I?m coming from and am not going to judge you. I have changed some details as I don?t want to be outed so to speak. I know yours won?t be the same but I do believe the dynamic in any abusive relationship is more or less the same even if how it?s acted out varies. If you can get out faster than I did then it?ll make it a little easier for you in the long run but I know from my own experience, we only act when we?re ready to so I won?t ever criticise someone. I know how long it took me.

Mine was a long time ago, I was pretty young and we were ?together? six years. I?d say it took ten years to get out of it ? by this I mean, I realised the relationships wasn?t right after two years. I ended it physically at six years but he and the damage was still in my head for much, much longer.

I didn't have children with him. Anyway I was almost paralysed with fear when I decided to end it all. He had been physically violent. Not often but enough for me to have the fear of it in the back of my head all the time.

I imagined he'd explode with rage but in fact he was very calm. He didn?t really do rage and exploding, more quiet and controlled ? smirking when I lost it etc. I wasn?t at all controlled when I was telling him. I was crying, hands shaking and very upset that I was going. We didn?t own anything together, just rented. I think he thought I may come crawling back and I wasn?t convinced I wouldn?t either.

It didn't remain that way. Once I was clear I wasn?t going to do that, he became angry/very upset/ please come back etc - lots of phone calls - charming and conciliatory, came to my friends house where I was staying and once turned up, where I worked. I considered going back and met up a few times - where he told me he loved me, he?d behave as he always did when he was trying to wheel me in and it nearly worked.

I was so lucky that I had some friends who helped and supported me to see that going back wasn?t an option, that I didn?t have to keep hating myself as I was worth more than that and going back would be an example of self hatred. I?m so thankful that I listened to them.

It stopped after awhile and I imagine he found someone else. He was superficially charming, (worked in media ? small fry nothing big - he's probably a pensioner now), witty, physically attractive and could spot vulnerability a mile off which I would have been radiating in those days.

Like others women?s? experience here, he was pretty controlling. Particularly about what I wore. It had to be particular shoes, dresses that he?d pick out for me when we were shopping, hair in a certain way. I was conventionally physically attractive in those days and to some men and certainly the ones I knew at that time, women were trophies. He was older and liked to show me off. I remember him literally taking me around a local pub of his when we first got together, stopping at friends tables, like I was some fucking prize.

Funny about the trophy bit really as in the last year he'd sometimes put a pillow over my face when we had sex because he said he couldn't bear to look at me I was so ugly and hideous. What a fat bitch I was etc. By that time, I felt just a numb, disgusting object. I didn?t have a voice, was on anti depressants, not eating and was drinking too much.

The verbal stuff I found more insidious and that preceded the physical violence. The sarcasm, coldness, withdrawal of affection, contempt, criticism of everything from what I?d bought for dinner to my point of view about politics etc. Oh and the bloody sulking. EG: What?s the matter? You know what?s the matter. So of course I?d be pleading by the end of the evening trying to work out what I?d done wrong. I?d do anything.

The first time he hit me was two years into the relationship - because I was watching t.v. He said he did it because I wasn't paying him any attention. He smacked me round the head. It wasn't really painful but was very shocking. He never apologised and at that time, I never really considered he was wrong in doing that. Over the next few years, he punched me in the stomach and back a couple of times and kicked me. There were big gaps of time between the incidents.

He didn't stop me socialising though, just was always negative and bitchy people. I just don?t think he ever envisaged that I?d want to leave him so I suppose they weren?t a threat to him.

I worked up to leaving supported by two friends I'd confided in. It took me a long time to learn to trust my own judgment and start to feel that some other life and version of me was possible.

I really, really didn't understand or feel how bad it all was until I was out of it and then I went into therapy for a long, time was lucky that I earn enough to afford it.

I know this all sounds unbelievable to people who've never experienced it - that women stay in relationships like this - but it's like a form of brainwashing when you?re in it and I'd say that took me longer to recover from the emotional abuse than the physical. It was a drip, drip, drip effect that and the sexual side. That sense of entitlement he had.

I look at my daughter particularly and I?m pretty sure she won?t make the same choices I did as I?m bringing her up to know her own worth as I know mine now. I imagine you?ll do that with your children. You've already a stronger sense of your worth on the way already as you've told some people irl and are making plans.

Now, I'm very middle aged and uglier and couldn't be happier.

iso · 27/06/2010 17:13

malinkey, sorry for grammar and typo's. Writing quickly, children and had half an eye and ear given to the world cup...

QueenofWhatever · 27/06/2010 20:32

As all the others said.

On a practical note, you will be able to sell your house. There is always someone who will buy it if the price is right. Did your partner tell you it was impossible to sell? My ex did too, it's bollocks.

cestlavielife · 28/06/2010 14:23

i totally get the "having a witness" thing - and in fact i used "famiy therapy" sessions to do that - it didnt help at all tho, and i also made huge mistake of thinking ther eferral ahd included ALL tehr elavnt informaiton, when it ahndt...i did later see the therapist on my owna dn that was useful.

see a counsellor on your own, definitely...now and during and after you leave...

it would be naive to think "it might be beneficial for me to be able to tell him in front of another person how I feel - so he might have to at least appear to listen to me - and maybe more importantly so I can say to him that I have tried everything and he might be more amenable to us splitting up and so be a better parent to DS.
"

no - it wont make him any more amenable...
yes, it might help you feel like you "tried" to tell him nicely, tried to make the split work...

also telling him how you feel (in front of someone else or not) realy wont make any difference - they not interested in your feelings unless you make it all about them....

oh and even a supposed medaition session to focus solely on financial matters - (more than two years since i left) -well that just turned into an opprotunity for him to be bullying and abusive and bring up what terrible things i had done to him (in his view, eg by leaving him...) -

these people dont do rational, sensible, logical discussions. they not interested - they jsut make it all about them....

plan the practical stuff, put in writing your proposals for financial issues; contact with your DS etc. forget bringing your feelings/emotions into it.

malinkey · 28/06/2010 18:52

iso your story is horrendous - putting a pillow over your face! God, that is so horrible. You sound like an amazing person to have come out the other side and have made a good life for yourself after all that.

Now, I have to say I feel a bit of a fraud as my situation is nowhere near as awful or as obviously abusive as yours was! The abuse is a lot more subtle and has been a slow drip drip effect but I think I have normalised behaviours and actions that would have made me run for the hills on first meeting 'D'P but they didn't happen until later on when I was already hooked.

He can be very angry and moody, can sulk for hours and everything revolves around him and his needs. He does sometimes behave badly in front of other people - some of my friends have witnessed him snarling at me with disgust - but there are other people he would never do this in front of so he obviously is able to control himself. It's the inconsistency and unpredictability of his moods that is so difficult to deal with as he can be lovely when he wants to be.

Queen yes, he has made out it will be hard to sell the house but he has also started lots of DIY projects that will make it much harder to sell without sorting them out first!

cestlavie thanks for the practical advice. Will try and plan everything before I take any action.

OP posts:
QueenofWhatever · 28/06/2010 20:43

Look at this and tell us how many boxes he ticks.

My ex was like this in every way you describe (down to the botched DIY!). I was so normalised by his abuse that it was only when I was in hospital that it struck me as curious that the other patients had visitors who didn't try and upset them and make them cry. I didn't think he was wrong for doing this, just mildly curious that it didn't happen to other people.

Less than a year later, I can do a good impression of shock and awe when I get going. Looking forward to seeing you snarling and furious when you leave him.

You know however you play it, leaving will be acrimonious. Just make the plans and do it, I'm sorry to say there is no happy ending here.

iso · 29/06/2010 11:37

(((Malinkey))) I know this forum doesn't do fluff and hugs but I'm sending you a hug anyway. Look, I didn't post my experience for you to feel - oh it's not so bad for me. That's the last thing I want. I think his behaviour is controlling, abusive, nasty and damaging to you. I wanted to show you can come out the other end and have a good life.

I certainly don't feel I had it worse. As with your husband, my ex, was subtle and drip,drip at the beginning. And the worst and most damaging bit long term for me was the emotional abuse not the physical.

Just hold onto how his behaviour makes you feel and trust that. Not easy I know but try not to listen so hard to the voice in your head that may say "oh I'm overeacting, making a fuss, being over sensitive" etc because it's not true. What he's doing isn't ok and it had nothing to do with love.

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