No idea what to do about my Dad... Is it all in my head???

[JazzieJeff]

This is a long post, so apologies in advance! I've posted before about my Dad and was advised that given time, it would get better. It hasn't. Try as I might, it has actually got worse. And it's utterly galling.

DH and I are expecting our first baby in a few months time. We both have great, secure (rare in this climate) jobs and we are moving into a lovely new house in a few weeks' time. We are both 23, so whilst our DS came as a surprise, he is very much loved and wanted already and we are just THE most excited parents to be ever. I just wish that love and excitement extended to my Dad.

When we told my parents, they were initially surprised, but gradually seemed to be coming to terms with it. My dad is a controlling man; I admit that. For instance, I moved out of home at 17 to start my new job, but didn't have a fixed address so until I changed my mailing address, he would continually open my mail including bank statements (despite being asked not to) and berate me for 'spending too much money in TopShop' or wherever. He tried to control my life at all points, whenever I got away (by moving my mailing address) he would latch onto something else. He did (and still does) continually ask me about my finances, how much I've got saved and asking to see the paperwork of the account etc. He flies off the handle at really odd things. When I was 21, I moved into my first apartment with my boyfriend (now DH) and when I rang up to tell him, he went 'WHAT??? I cannot believe you are being so f**king stupid, shacking up like this.' (I had been with DH over a year at that point) He got pretty offensive and barely spoke to me for months. When he finally came to visit with my Mum, he was the most complementary person ever and boasted to all and sundry that I had a lovely home, and look at all the lovely things I had When we started to think about buying a home, he kept trying to offer us money to help with the initial costs, except he would put it into an account in his name and I would have to ask him when I wanted money and tell him what it was for. When we politely refused his offer, saying we wanted to stand on our own two feet, he didn't speak to me for a month.

I always knew he would find it hard to come to terms with being a grandparent. I guess it comes as a shock to most people and I totally get that; it's hard coming to terms with becoming a mother for the first time! But recently, he has just turned so nasty and it really hurts me. I rang him a few weeks ago just to let him know how we were getting onwith our house - search. I had mentioned to him on a previous visit that we were going to check out some new build properties, although I wasn't sure about them. He enthused that we should go and keep an open mind. When I told him that we had seen said house, but unfortunately hadn't liked it much he said 'I f**king told you so, didn't I?' He then lectured to me about the importance of not spending more than £150 on a pushchair, because they were all the same, and that I should choose one that would last otherwise I would be liable to 'make my DH angry'.

I quickly ended the conversation as quickly as I could so I wouldn't say something stupid. I saw both my parents at the weekend at a family BBQ which we had been separately invited to. My Dad blanked me for the entire afternoon. I really didn't want to go and ask him what was wrong, because to be perfectly honest, at 6 months pregnant; his lectures/bollockings whereby he treats me like a 12 year old are starting to wear thin. I also didn't want to get petty around other people; it's just not right. If I walked into the same room he happened to be in, he turned around and walked somewhere else.

We haven't spoken on the phone since our last conversation went so sour, and things aren't looking up. My Mum texted me to ask if our offer on the house we (eventually) found had been accepted. I said it had and that we were really exctied, having just recieved the call that afternoon. She just texted back 'Fine'. That was it.

The thing is, looking back at this I am so reluctant to post it because I feel like it's all in my head. Because sometimes, he is is the nicest guy. It's usually when you're doing something for him, but I swear down that when he's happy with you, he can make you feel like he really does love you.

When I was a little girl, he really ruled with an iron fist to be honest, and I was scared stiff of him. When he came home from work, I had to play quietly in my room and not talk to him apart from say hello, and answer any questions he may have had.
Looking back, sometimes I really feel like I'm the one who's being petty and silly and that because he's so horrible sometimes, I must be doing something worong and that I must deserve it. I feel like I must be making more of it in my head than there actually is. DH gets angry with it, because Dad only ever says these things to me when I'm on my own, or over the phone. Sometimes I look at the things he has said and think I must be imagining it, because no one's ever there to witness anything. Even on paper, it looks a bit pathetic.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. xxx

It doesn't look pathetic at all. There are real problems with the way your father treats you. Painful as it may be, I think it's a good thing that to be highly aware of this as you become a parent yourself. It will help you make decisions about the kind of parent you want to be, so you can avoid just repeating old patterns.

There's a book that gets recommended on here called "Toxic Parents". I haven't read it myself, but a lot of people have found it helpful in looking clearly at the way they were parented.

There's nothing you can do that will "make" your father act better towards you. All you can decide is how you will deal with it.

I agree with NT - this doesn't look pathetic at all. He is mistreating you, he is not being kind or considerate.

I'm a big that your DH doesn't realise this is a problem. Does he not believe you? Or does he think this behaviour is ok?

I have no idea how to deal with this anymore. It sounds awful, but I'd almost rather not bother. I can't not bother though. What a horrible thing to say! I have no idea what's causing this, nor do I have an effective plan to deal with it.
I'm so upset about this. I've spent so much time trying to build our relationship over the years, and it feels like the whole thing is coming down around me. It's such a horrible feeling

All in your head? you're kidding right??

The man is a total control freak. you have to wonder what his upbringing was like. You are probably only unclear quite how bad he is because the normal parent/child relationship is complicating things. Imagine if anyone else in the world tried to treat you like this? You'd tell them where to get off, no?

The amazing thing is that you are married, having a baby, buying a house, set up in a career managed all by yourself at 23- despite all his interference you are clearly a very mature and independent young woman. Most people at your age are still faffing around trying to be teenagers. That should tell you all you need to know about how much you need his interference in your lives.

You are going to be a mother now - what better time to set the new groundrules for your relationship?

You must tell him that you are your own woman, thank you very much, and that is he hasn't got anything positive or constructive to say then he needs to say nothing at all. Let him take the huff and let him be the one to make the first move when the huff has worn off.

If you don't stand up to him and make him understand that you are not a child/imbecile he will carry on treating you like this - and that is not something you want your own DS to be witness to, is it? Much less telling you how to raise your own child (!)

No, sorry notquite I didn't make myself clear at all there. Because my Dad only does this when I'm on my own with him, DH actually finds the whole thing really creepy on my dad's part and doesn't like him at all. He's gone to speak to him a few times because it makes him really angry, but I've always stopped him because I don't want to rock the boat. This leaves DH frustrated because he wants to speak to my dad, but also wants to respect my wishes.

Oh, this is so sad. Your parents aren't being kind with you, and the way you describe your childhood brings tears to my eyes.
It is a positive thing that you recognize your father's behaviour as unreasonable- It means you're less likey to pass on the pattern to your own children.

I'm glad that your DH is on your side.

You said "I'd almost rather not bother". That's not terrible at all. Every time he acts the bully, you're perfectly entitled to hang up/walk away.

Thankyou to everyone for replying so quickly. I just have no idea what to do next for the best. I don't want ot hurt anyone's feelings, but I just don't know how much of a relationship I want to persue anymore.

I also worry about his interaction with DS when he is older. He isn't interested in the pregnancy at all so far, he has never even asked me how I'm feeling. I'm assuming that when DS is here, that if he does decide to take an interest how that's going to work. I don't want to deprive DS of a relationship with his grandparents.

Don't accept anything from your father - money, gifts, help etc - because you will never be able to pay it back and it will tie you to him.

My mother is very similar. I no longer speak to her because of what she is like.

One thing that really annoys people like this is to make fun of what they are saying. Like if he asks to see your accounts laugh and say something like 'I'm a married woman with a career expecting my first child, come on' and treat it like a joke. Do it every time. It takes back the power as you refuse to play the child's part.

There is a phrase to describe it which links to a very good page on wiki about it. It is about putting/keeping you in the child's role during any interaction. So you have to subvert that by refusing to play your part. Which is hard as you have 25 years of being trained to do so.

Think how your dh or another person you know would react to a stranger treating them like this - reacting with disbelief (often laughter as they assume the person is joking), keeping calm, refusing to engage with it all.

It's something you need to practice. But what you also need to remember is that you are not being unreasonable and this is not in your head. You have to accept what is happening in order to deal with it.

And the old adage is true 'you cannot change someone else's behaviour, only your reaction to it'.

JJ, let your DH have a go at your dad.

It's not your responsibility to run around trying to not rock the boat or 'build a relationship' (with your own father, fgs!). What you're describing here is the phenomenon of walking on eggshells, or becoming a satellite of someone who is incapable of having a real relationship.

Maybe reading over this might help shed some light on your dad? or this. None of what he does, his attitude to you and his pattern of abuse (yes) is your fault, and there's nothing you can do about it. The only way to change things is to not engage -- walking away and hanging up on him as Nickname Taken says. Hanging up means just putting the phone down without trying to excuse yourself in any way or make it seem smooth or spare his feelings.

Sad that your mum seems to be stuck in his thrall, and with the baby coming it would be nice for you to be able to count on her full support, but I think you will suffer a loss there too unless she grows some sort of spine.

Please do not hesitate to deprive your DS of a 'relationship' with this particular GP. Nothing good can come of a relationship with this person.

Do not worry about hurting anyone's feelings.

You have already been given some very good counsel here by people who do know their stuff so I hope you take heed.

Your father is a controlling man and controlling men by their nature are angry men too. Abusers like your Dad can do nice on occasion but the abuse cycle is a continuous one so they will always revert back to nasty as the mask soon slips. If they were nasty all the time no person would want a relationship with them.

You came from a dysfunctional family but you have the insight that they never had or will ever have. You realise the way you were treated was wrong.

Your Mum was the bystander in all this; she too failed to protect you from him, her husband. She put him before you and I would not let her off the hook either.

Why should your child be at all subjected to all toxic behaviour that you received from your Dad?. No,no and no again. They failed here and continue to do so. Your parents failed you utterly when you were a child and they are certainly failing you now. Toxic parents often equal toxic grandparents. Toxic parents like yours are often only too happy to pass on their issues to the next generation i.e your child and could well use the child as a weapon to get back at you.

You may want to read "If you had controlling parents" written by Dr Dan Neuharth as well as "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward. Both publications would I think help you.

What everyone else said. Please go ahead and hurt his feelings - why not; he's hurt yours often enough, hasn't he? Yes, he is your father and your mother's husband. He is also just a man - a man like any other damaged, manipulative, overbearing bully. I'm sure you would not choose to have such a person in your life and influencing your DC. So choose not to have him in it.

You may find this easier than you imagine. I informed my father that I wanted nothing to do with him for several years. I kept in touch with my mum and the sibs still living at home: if he picked up the phone, I just asked to speak with Mum. I was surprised he fell in with it so readily (he 'punished' me later, but that was my mistake for resuming contact!)

Bully-proof your baby's life
Good luck.

Just wanted to add that I kept contact with my parents so as not to 'deprive' my ds of a relationship with them.

Since we cut off contact (after instances involving taking my child away from me as punishment, placing him in danger on other occasions) ds has been so much happier even the school commented on it (though they didn't know why).

Ds would be happy to visit his grandparents and I thought it was benefitting him. But since he stopped his nightmares have stopped, he's become a lot more confident, he's become happier, his eating/toilet problems have reduced. All in all the difference is amazing.

ds is 5yo and I wish I had cut off contact sooner. We didn't realise how much of an affect it had on him until we stopped.

So continuing the relationship for the child is not always the best idea.

Thankyou so much to everyone for their advice. I keep thinking about breaking contact, but I'm not brave enough to do it. It sounds stupid but when I think of what has happened, it sounds really silly when I say it aloud and I think 'there was no one around to witness it, everyone will just think I'm making it up or exaggerating'. I worry he'll tell the rest of my family I'm being silly and exaggerating or something. Also, I seriously don't think my mum would defy him by keeping in contact with me. I could be wrong but she's never stood up for me before, hence why a large part of me still thinks 'it's all in your head'.

1. he only does it when your dh is not around.
2. he said your push-chair might make your dh angry.

pretty much an admission that he knows what he's doing, can control it when he has to, and assumes that women should do as men say. it's not in your head.

keep contact with your parents if you want, but do it on your terms.

my dad is nowhere near this extreme, but he does lose his temper/get hugely upset if something knocks his regular routine, but the temper tantrums ONLY happen with us & mum, not when there are visitors - pretty much evidence that he knows it's not acceptable. try to think of him as an irrational & selfish toddler, throwing his toys out the pram when the game doesn't go his way. i refuse to just do what dad wants to keep him happy - he can learn to grow up, or put up with the fact that as an adult, i get to make my own decisions.

my dad has many redeeming qualities & has spent his life trying to provide for his wife & kids, he just never learnt how to get over his temper tantrums.

Let me be the sole voice on this thread saying: yes, it is pathetic.

His behaviour is pathetic. Blanking his own daughter at a party? Wtf is that all about? You didn't even know what you were supposed to have done. (Actually, are you sure no-one witnessed that?) I agree with kickassangel, he's like a small, huffy toddler, not a man who's about to become a grandfather. I also agree that asserting your husband would be angry with you if you bought a substandard pushchair is kind of... well, peculiar is probably the politest way to put it.

If you're not ready to break contact with them - and only you have the right to make that choice - then how about just not pushing contact at all. Let them call you if they must, but don't try to run around making a relationship with them, as mathanxiety put it so well ("(with your own father, fgs!)" indeed!). Yes they are your own parents, no-one cuts off contact with their parents lightly - but what sort of parent sets such strange, restrictive conditions on their own child? I think you said on a previous thread that your in-laws were lovely. Look to them for the grandparent input and your little one won't be deprived.

Your DH sounds like a star, btw, and I bet you two will be the best parents ever

He sounds controlling, and one of those men who does not want to see his daughter (his chattel) become a woman and move on and get her own life.

My dad was apprehensive and nervous when I told him I was pregnant, rang me lots and gave me some advice, got my aunt (a midwife) to ring me and talk to me. This is normal dad reactions, happy but nervous that their "little girl" is going to give birth!

Your dad sounds like he cannot cope with you having your own life, this is the final affirmation to him that he has no control and he percieves you to now be in thrall (not in love, your dad probably cannot comprehend love) to your DH and not him.

I wonder if he punched or abused your mum when she first became pregnant? That behaviour stems from the same fear, of loss of control, a need to dominate.

He is probably too old to change and I suspect your mum does anything for a quiet life?
Did your mum ever stand up for you or any of her kids?

You may have to face cutting them out if they carry on like this. Do read the toxic parents book as it will make you realise it is HIM not YOU that has the problem.

Your DH sounds great, he will want to protect you, particulalrly at this time. My DH would flip if anyone spoke to me like that.

Also, your dad is a bully, and a coward. I bet he never fronts up to your DH???? Only to women and children...classic abuser tactics.

Cut them out for your own sanity...it will only get worse when the baby is born. My gran put my parents through hell regularly, as she was a horrible bully too.

Oh, I'm glad your DH is on your side, JJ.

You say you've spent ages trying to build up this relationship ... would you expect your child to have to work really hard to build a relationship with you? I bet not - why should you be putting all this effort it, only to be treated, frankly, like crap?

I just want to agree with everyone here.

My DH2B has a difficult relationship with his father, who does his best to break my DH's heart when things are not exactly the way that he wants them to be.

Anyway, the point is, I try to console him with the fact that he has his own family, me and our dogs (and hopefully soon a rugrat or two!) and that he needs to focus his energies on that not his father.

So, the point I guess, is to spend less energy on your father and enjoy your husband and child, some times it's better in the long run than breaking your heart over something that might never get any better or change.

JJ - you've had some really good advice. Can I recommend counselling too - I had some issues with my parents after DSs were born and I went to Relate with DH about it as it was affected both of us (we weren't having relationship problems, just that the issues with my parents negatively impacted on our family) and it really helped me to see that it wasn't all in my head and that I wasn't to blame. And that how I had been treated was shit.

I really hope you can get some clarity and see that it isn't just you. It really isn't.
(Congratulations on the baby, btw, and it is good that your DP is willing to stand up for you and can see this from an outside perspective. It can be really healing to set up your own family unit and do things differently, but you may need some help to see that your father's treatment of you hasn't been healthy and you need to try to ensure you don't pass any of that crap on.)

Annie, thankyou so much for your kind words it does mean a lot that people I've never even met are so supportive.

Miggsie; as far as I know, he has never been physically abusive towards my mum. I know they split up for a time when she was pregnant with me. She moved in with her parents but he went and 'got her back', in his words. I dont know anything else about it though.

I am their only child, they couldn't have any more after me. I am fairly sure he was disappointed to have a girl, and before I was pregnant he mentioned being a parent was 'incredibly difficult, with little reward' amongst other similar comments.

When I was small, he used to try and get me on his side over arguments with my mum. They were on the verge of splitting once, and he drove me to school really angry at me saying 'if me and your mum get divorced, you'll have to live with your Nan and Grandad because she's not having the house. You'll be poor, everythings in my name and you'll never see me again, I won't pay child support for you. Is that what you want?' I was so frightened. Weirdly I forgot all about it until talking with dh last year.

I once managed to talk to my mum on a level. Just once, last year on a visit when I was on my own with her. He had tried to bait me into an argument with him before he left the house. I was really upset and was making my excuses to leave. My mum begged me to tell her what was wrong, so I told her. She agreed with me, saying he was a hard man to live with and tgat sometimes he did the same to her. We had a heart to heart and in that few hours, I felt so close to her. Genuinely close, and its never happened since, but I'm grateful I got the chance to speak to her like that once in my life. I kind of felt like she got me, like she knew. And I felt like she loved me.

Gosh, bit teary now! Pregnancy hormones and all that!

As the above all said, especially the Armadillo with regards to your baby. He is controlling and abusive and as you navigate your life, he feels you moving out of his control so his behaviour is escalating.

Classic abusive behaviour, in time you might want to look at the Stately Homes thread. I would also recommend Toxic Parents by Susan Forward.

On a practical level, I think you should have a period of no contact with him, maybe for the next 12 months with the baby coming and everything. You don't have to necessarily tell him or you can send a letter. Then at the end of that you can decide what to do. I am no contact with both my parents (for different reasons) and it is a big decision to make that takes time (however, like others it is an enormous relief).

Good luck, you are making it real by posting here and we believe you.

Having had something a bit the same - though more I suspect that when I married and was pregnant he realised he couldn't force everything to always be about him anymore.

After many years, have finally settled into a controlled relationship with him. I wish I'd had some of the advice you'd been given.

What worked is that I (with DH's help) worked out the boundaries I wanted and made them non-negotiable.

i think you need to avoid him.

get some counselling and maybe one day you'll feel strong enough to confront him.