No idea what to do about my Dad... Is it all in my head???

[JazzieJeff]

This is a long post, so apologies in advance! I've posted before about my Dad and was advised that given time, it would get better. It hasn't. Try as I might, it has actually got worse. And it's utterly galling.

DH and I are expecting our first baby in a few months time. We both have great, secure (rare in this climate) jobs and we are moving into a lovely new house in a few weeks' time. We are both 23, so whilst our DS came as a surprise, he is very much loved and wanted already and we are just THE most excited parents to be ever. I just wish that love and excitement extended to my Dad.

When we told my parents, they were initially surprised, but gradually seemed to be coming to terms with it. My dad is a controlling man; I admit that. For instance, I moved out of home at 17 to start my new job, but didn't have a fixed address so until I changed my mailing address, he would continually open my mail including bank statements (despite being asked not to) and berate me for 'spending too much money in TopShop' or wherever. He tried to control my life at all points, whenever I got away (by moving my mailing address) he would latch onto something else. He did (and still does) continually ask me about my finances, how much I've got saved and asking to see the paperwork of the account etc. He flies off the handle at really odd things. When I was 21, I moved into my first apartment with my boyfriend (now DH) and when I rang up to tell him, he went 'WHAT??? I cannot believe you are being so f**king stupid, shacking up like this.' (I had been with DH over a year at that point) He got pretty offensive and barely spoke to me for months. When he finally came to visit with my Mum, he was the most complementary person ever and boasted to all and sundry that I had a lovely home, and look at all the lovely things I had When we started to think about buying a home, he kept trying to offer us money to help with the initial costs, except he would put it into an account in his name and I would have to ask him when I wanted money and tell him what it was for. When we politely refused his offer, saying we wanted to stand on our own two feet, he didn't speak to me for a month.

I always knew he would find it hard to come to terms with being a grandparent. I guess it comes as a shock to most people and I totally get that; it's hard coming to terms with becoming a mother for the first time! But recently, he has just turned so nasty and it really hurts me. I rang him a few weeks ago just to let him know how we were getting onwith our house - search. I had mentioned to him on a previous visit that we were going to check out some new build properties, although I wasn't sure about them. He enthused that we should go and keep an open mind. When I told him that we had seen said house, but unfortunately hadn't liked it much he said 'I f**king told you so, didn't I?' He then lectured to me about the importance of not spending more than £150 on a pushchair, because they were all the same, and that I should choose one that would last otherwise I would be liable to 'make my DH angry'.

I quickly ended the conversation as quickly as I could so I wouldn't say something stupid. I saw both my parents at the weekend at a family BBQ which we had been separately invited to. My Dad blanked me for the entire afternoon. I really didn't want to go and ask him what was wrong, because to be perfectly honest, at 6 months pregnant; his lectures/bollockings whereby he treats me like a 12 year old are starting to wear thin. I also didn't want to get petty around other people; it's just not right. If I walked into the same room he happened to be in, he turned around and walked somewhere else.

We haven't spoken on the phone since our last conversation went so sour, and things aren't looking up. My Mum texted me to ask if our offer on the house we (eventually) found had been accepted. I said it had and that we were really exctied, having just recieved the call that afternoon. She just texted back 'Fine'. That was it.

The thing is, looking back at this I am so reluctant to post it because I feel like it's all in my head. Because sometimes, he is is the nicest guy. It's usually when you're doing something for him, but I swear down that when he's happy with you, he can make you feel like he really does love you.

When I was a little girl, he really ruled with an iron fist to be honest, and I was scared stiff of him. When he came home from work, I had to play quietly in my room and not talk to him apart from say hello, and answer any questions he may have had.
Looking back, sometimes I really feel like I'm the one who's being petty and silly and that because he's so horrible sometimes, I must be doing something worong and that I must deserve it. I feel like I must be making more of it in my head than there actually is. DH gets angry with it, because Dad only ever says these things to me when I'm on my own, or over the phone. Sometimes I look at the things he has said and think I must be imagining it, because no one's ever there to witness anything. Even on paper, it looks a bit pathetic.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. xxx

Maybe with the baby on the way, he has become jealous of a new claim on your attention -- maybe this is what happened between him and your mum when she was pregnant with you, that he suddenly realised it wasn't all about him any more as far as she was concerned, and now it's the same with you. My guess is he made her life absolutely intolerable at that point, but realised he would have to sweeten himself up in a hurry if he wasn't to lose all, hence a charm offensive to get her back.

He has tried to get involved as much as he possibly could in your and your DH's life, as a way to deal with the threat your DH poses to "his" place in your life, attempting to get a foot in the door with money and various pieces of unasked-for advice. The remark about the pushchair was a clumsy attempt to come between the two of you.

Someone like your dad can't stand to be just one more person in anyone else's life. His twisted emotional existence depends on having other people's lives revolve around him at all times, no matter what age, hence the horribly inappropriate things he said to you when driving you to school that time -- they have no boundaries and will use anyone, any way it suits them, to achieve their ends. You are now poised to leave his orbit and he is desperate. Beware. The stakes are high for him.

Pregnancy hormones are not a negative, no matter what society says -- they are there to prepare you to defend your child like a mother bear, they heighten your senses and your responses to events and to memories. They can empower you and provide you with armour; they certainly provide the courage to go through childbirth. Your emotional state that recalled the memory, and your response to that memory is your inner voice telling you there is a hostile force there. Trust your instincts here.

Mathanxiety; thankyou for the advice, I do feel a lot more positive about the whole thing now.

I still am not really sure of a way ahead; what I'll do first etc. I think I'll definately get a copy of the Toxic Parents book that someone so kindly recommended.

I know for certain that I'm quite happy to cool off the relationship; he can come to me to apologise if he's going to, not the other way around. I'm happy to keep it amicable though. I don't really want to cut off all contact, I think I'd feel quite guilty about putting my Mum in a situation where she would quite clearly choose my Dad... maybe she's not strong enough. Maybe she doesn't see my point of view at all, or thinks I'm being over sensitive. Not choose between me and my Dad, that's badly phrased but I can't think of another way of putting it.

It still confuses me when I think back to the heart to heart we had just over a year ago now, maybe a little longer. I really felt we connected, for the first time ever in a really close and special way. I remember thinking 'bloody hell, this is it! This is what people talk about when they say about the 'mother-daughter' connection!' I got so excited because I felt like she wanted that connection and love with me, like she wanted to return my feelings. She's normally friendly and kind; but not overly so. When I visit her on my own, although we've never talked on that level since, she gives me cakes to take home to DH because 'you and Mr Jazzie love my cakes'. She never speaks to me like that when my Dad is about, although I can't fathom why; she's just giving me cakes or recipes or lending me books I might be interested in. We're not doing anything wrong!

So... yes, I'm grateful to everyone who came on here and told me it wasn't in my head. It's hard to put things like this into words, or convince yourself you're not imagining it. I still find the word 'abuse' hard to use with this situation, because he never was violent with either of us, not to my knowledge. He was a bit hard with the smacks sometimes, but that's because he's so tall and I was so small, I think it's hard to judge maybe.

Still trying to come up with a way forward, may look into counselling as I don't want this to have a negative impact on my parenting in turn.

Just a guess - maybe she doesn't do the cake/book thing around your dad because he is trying to divide & rule the pair of you. He might be cross with her later.

If you don't want to cut him out of your life, do your best to cut your emotional link with him (counselling can help with this). As long as you don't actually care what he says/does/thinks, you can play nice to his face, for a quiet life ... as your mum does

Sounds very like my Mum. I don't agree that you break contact.

Controlling people tend to be petrified inside. I don't think for a minute you shoul try to solve his problems or try to 'build' a lovely relationship. I do think you should gain a bit of control yourself.

visit go through the motions "This happened last week.....daughter has got a new tooth etc" Don't pamper to his negativity or even respond to it (this is REALLY difficult).

You will both get something out of this. Deep deep inside he will be gratefull (and will never admit it) and you will feel more in control of things and less of a victim.

REMEMBER 1. He will never be a doting, totally aproving Father you want. Except that. 2. Don't fall for his traps!!

Sorry meant Accept it.

It's not easy but if you do manage it, you feel much more at peace (and less likely to pass stuff onto your own kids)

I did this years ago with my Mum. I accept how she is. She still says thing which
really sting. But I try not to take the bate. We have a weird realtionship. But we both get a very, very, small, grain of sand sized amount of love from our meetings!!

It's possible that your mum knows how jealous and maybe 'impossible to live with' he would become if he thought you and she were establishing a close relationship, hence her circumspection about ordinary mum-things she does with you -- the divide and rule idea applies too.

I think your DH might be given a role to play as things progress, especially when the baby arrives, maybe watching out for indications that your dad is becoming overbearing and distracting him with football or politics chat or something else your dad likes to pontificate about, while you and your mum try to connect.

You may find him becoming a real pita at the time of the baby's birth, inventing all sorts of drama that will focus attention on him, or alternatively, insisting on being there at the hospital and trying to take over. A little anticipation of his potential to insinuate himself into the situation might help you and your DH to forge some sort of plan along with your midwife or hospital staff.

Imgaine how you would react if your son/daughter comes to you and tells you that he speaks to him/her in the same way, what are you going to do then? Let him off the hook? Confront him and stand up for him/her?
You can do it! You are strong enough (and you have your DH's support)! I could and I did (I only dared say no to them when they started treating my kids the same way they had me). It did result in them cutting contact with me for now four years (only just saw them last Monday at my gran's funeral).
It has made my life a lot easier, really a lot, and it has made me realise that I don't need them. I would like to have loving parents in my life, but I aint ever gonna get it from them, and my children aint ever gonna get loving grandparents out of them which is sad. However my kids now have a loving, happy, a lot more relaxed mother, instead of a scared, manipulated, angry, frustrated mother.

Sometimes Dad's like to 'control' their daughters, similarly Mum's like to control their sons so take dislikes to girlfriends etc.

I think your dad is jealous that you're obviously an intelligent, independent individual who is happy in her new relationship/life.

I think you ought to have a word with him and your mum and try and explain how you feel and say if things don't change that you will break off contact. The relationship doesn't seem to be doing you any good and to be honest it sounds like its one you can do without.

Good luck, and remember don't let the buggers grind you down....

"I'm an adult and my finances are none of your business."

And if he stops talking to you, let him.

And stop running things by him. Stop trying to bring him into your decisions (get his approval?).

Oh, and when he asks you a personal question, like how much something cost or whatever, the reply to that is "Why do you want to know that?"

Jazzie, I read your OP and was nodding along with it. My father was a horrible controlling mentally abusive man. I firmly believe now that he has Narcassistic Personality Disorder (after reading up on it).
The only things different in our situations is that he used ot beat us (my siblings and I) and that my mum divorced him as soon as my brother turned 16 (for various reason she didn't feel able to do it earlier)
I ahve ahd it out with my mother about this, and over the years I have forgiven her.

I haven't spoken to my father in 7 years.
Dh was so supportive to me when I decided that enough was enough, he hates my father with a passion and is dying to 'have it out wiht him' but I was the same as you, didn't want ot rock the boat.

It drags you down, a little part of you believes the stuff he tells you, or that you are doing something wrong otherwise why woud a father behave like this to his daughter? Other women have loving fathers and yet yours can't love you that way, so your mind tells you it must be your fault, there must be soemthing wrong with you so you try, harder and harder, to make it right, you do everything right, everythig they want, and it is not good enough.

well BULLSHIT. It never will be good enough because he isn't like eveyrone else's father, he is not wired right and doesn't know how to treat people.
My father was sweetness and light with everyone else, he was a member of the church and so well viewed in the community that when I told my priest how awful he was in the hopes of some help, the priest told me I woudl go to hell for what I had said and told my father everything I had said

If you do keep contact (and if you don't I would not blame you one iota) then make sure it is on your terms. Don't let him do this to you, you are a good person and will be a fantastic mother if you can admit to yourself that what he has been telling you all these years is bullshit.

I agree wiht counselling though, it would be a massive help, espeically if you don't feel you can break contact.

I am sorry this turned into such a massive ramble, I hope you can get some help out of it. I was goign to go back and edit but shall leave it to show you that you are not alone and certainly not pathetic

Oh, and another thing (haha)
The other reason I am goign to leave that massive waffle is that I found MN an absolute godsend. Once I found out that not only was I not alone, but other people had parents exactly like my father^ I felt so much better. It really cemented my belief (and DH's insistence) that it was him, not me, never me.

QualityTime; Thankyou I appreciate any comments at all and your experience that you wrote was really valuable

More; I know what you mean about him as a grandparent. It does worry me, but then equally well I worry that there's just that chance that he could be a really great Grandad to DS... I know, I know and pigs might fly, but I feel like I really have to be careful. It's me he has the problem with, no one else. A few times it's crossed my mind that it's a personality clash; we just don't get on. I have taken on board everything you've said. I just still feel more mixed up, but if anything, more angry.

I mean, what the hell? how can you possibly dislike your own flesh and blood this much?

I LOVE my son. I LOVE HIM. Whatever he does, I will love him and support him to the ends of the earth. If he killed someone, if he was into hard drugs, God forbid it, I would still love him and cuddle him because that's my baby. I just cannot understand this way of his that he has, of being able to dismiss me as if I am an irksome little pest. I could never ignore my DS, or treat him this way.

I know that I could happily keep it amicable, and be polite and keep a certain level of contact even with him. But then, I'm not the problem I guess. It's him.

I do feel under pressure because I feel like for some reason, I'm on the verge of a crossroads. Another lady posted that when she spoke to her Dad after breaking off contact, he punished her in he own way. I feel like if I do break off contact; it's all or nothing, I can't go back on myself.

The whole thing makes me despair. When I was younger, I used to be afraid of going home to him in case of what mood he was in. I spent my late teens in some odd relationships with again, quite controlling people I would say before I met DH. It only hit me about 3 years ago that you're not meant to be afraid, it's not supposed to happen is it?

How would I go about counselling, or at least finding out about it? I just don't want to pass this onto my baby in any way as he grows up.

He's a narcissist, that's how he can do it. And your mum is living the same experience that you are -- a very conditional relationship with someone who uses other people to bolster his own ego, with no concern for their welfare.

If you have the resources to do private counselling, you can ask your GP for a recommendation, or check this as a resource. Relate does counselling in all sorts of areas. Here's a directory/ advice site too.

You can spell out your specific situation when you call a counsellor, and ask them if they have interest or experience in your particular area of concern; saves a lot of false starts.