how to break stalemate after emotional affair

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Does anyone have any advice for how to move beyond stalemate? In a nutshell, been married 12 years, 2 kids, H had emotional affair, lasting 3 or 4 months. Discovered by me a month ago, rather than confessed.

We are doing the right things - having Relate couples counseling, and our own counseling too. We've both read Not Just Friends. H has cut off all contact with OW. Had some time apart, but now back under same roof, separate bedrooms. He says he wants us to get back to a better relationship.

The problem is we seem to have sunk into a new survival routine, where we manage day to day, but with minimum communication. We seem to be saving that for the counselor.

H never initiates conversation about us, if it does happen it's me who starts it. I know we need to make steps to build a bridge together again, but can't see how to even begin.

Maybe write down a list of what made you fall in love with each other in the first place and perhaps go away on a weekend break, just the two of you, perhaps not discuss your current problems when there, but try to rediscover each other and come back refreshed and renewed. Perhaps then you can share a bed again.Or make a complete change. Move house. A fresh start. Buy a new bed. Not much help I'm afraid. Good luck.

Thanks Ninajane.

Much as I like the idea of going away for the weekend, I don't think we are anywhere near that unfortunately.

Way too many fresh victim/wronged feelings flying around. I think we need smaller steps forward.

Have you as a couple analysed why this happened yet? Has he been able to explain his thought processes fully?

It's interesting that it is you who generates discussion, but not surprising. After discovery and the initial trauma, most betraying spouses just want to "get back to normal" and not talk about the issues again.

However, "normal" is what got him into this in the first place - and I suspect you feel far from ready to move on.

Yes, you are doing all the right things on the surface, but none of these will make much difference if they are not impacting on thought processes and generating discussion and changed behaviour. You are both perhaps relying too much on the counselling as a remedy - these sessions should generate discussions in the interval between them - and an hour or so each week won't touch the sides, or unpeel the layers of delusions and lies involved in infidelity.

I should also say that it is now my belief that emotional affairs that are thwarted are simply sexual affairs in the making, that have been interrupted, but perhaps you can tell us more about your H's relationship with this woman and why he is saying it didn't become a physical affair - and crucially, what you believe yourself.

Going back to what you had before cannot and should not be the goal, though. In the wake of anything like this, it has to be about creating a new relationship. However, in order to do that, it helps to make sense of the old one and I wonder whether you have both done any of the exercises suggested in the book, about timelining your relationship?

Hello again WWIFN.

It may be that by discovering the goings on, I stopped an escalation. But I do believe him when he says he didn't love her. She has a boyfriend, which I know guarantees nothing. But even if it had gone further, I doubt that this would have been a match made in heaven - each of them cheating on their partners. Hardly the perfect foundations for a trusting relationship. He has easily given up the contact.

In terms of making sense of the relationship, now I look back I have been able to see issues between us going way back. For example, to do with power (his financial control once I stopped work to be FT mum) and avoidance (what started as his quite endearing insecurity developed into an avoidance of all difficult conversations, not just with me, but any builder/school teacher or whatever)

But whenever I have tried to talk about this, he feels under attack. I'm really not shouting, I am being quite calm.

To me this feels like a step forward. Until we can unpick the problems, how can we improve things?

I think that's why he's not talking much at home now. He doesn't want to face up to the real changes that will be necessary.

As for me, I'd love to know what I can change, but he has not mentioned one single fault. Other than lack of affection.

When I do a timeline, I do find a marked decline in his attitude to me coinciding with the start of this emotional affair. So yes, I have been less affectionate.

But how would you begin to warm up communication? At the moment it's stilted/ polite/frosty/limited to the essentials like who's picking up from school.

I should add that in terms of changed behaviour, he has completely stopped going out in the evenings, drinking alcohol, and given up membership to the members club where it all happened (and where I was never a member)

Which is good.

But I think those things were facilitators, rather than causal factors.

Just because he didn't love her it doesn't mean he wouldn't have had sex with her though - and her having a partner means nothing either. All that means is that there were reduced places to meet, perhaps?

Have you both cried with eachother yet? Shown your vulnerabilities and hurts? I am intrigued by the polite and frosty communication. That sounds as though you are both hiding your feelings from one another.

An affair doesn't have to have been about you or your relationship. So he's probably telling you the truth when he says it was nothing about these things. The lack of affection is relevant only if he felt this need had been unmet before he met the OW.

If he is saying this though, it sheds some light on the affair, which by definition therefore suggests there was affection between them and perhaps more of an emotional connection than he is admitting, even to himself.

Perhaps you wouldn't be amazed by what I'm about to say, but there is a link between people who avoid difficult conversations and infidelity.

One of the changes therefore you might insist on is that he overcomes this fear of discussing things. No-one can recover from infidelity without repeated difficult conversations.

I think the first step is to have an honest sharing about your hurt and your loss. But you perhaps need to establish some ground rules for your chats, so that he doesn't feel under attack (and doesn't use this as an excuse either for curtailing the dialogue) and you get the answers that will heal you. There will be so many times in these chats when you will feel angry, but you need to find a safe way of expressing that anger, without the effect being that he clams up and becomes defensive. Anger is healthy and good, but it needs to work for you, not against you.

Thank you WWIFN.

I have been thinking that his avoidance is definitely something to tackle, because even if we do work this all out, if he carries on being unable to talk about difficult stuff, how would I know if he was entering an affair again? He would presumably yet again avoid talking about what's going on.

Ground rules sounds good. Can you give me an example?

Will have a think for you and come back later HV - a Father's Day shopping expedition beckons!

Back briefly before having to disappear again HV.

Ground rules:

• Time limit (e.g. no longer than 2 hours, depending on time of day/night).
• You flag up the general areas you need to question (e.g. I want to talk today about what needs this relationship was meeting).
• Agree not to interrupt eachother.
• Agree to listen fully to what eachother is saying, checking before responding whether the other has finished for now.
• Agreeing not to use sarcasm or any passive-aggression, such as flouncing, or saying "Oh well, I must be such an awful person" - in a tone that means the speaker really doesn't believe that of themselves at all.
• Acknowledging that some things disclosed are likely to cause anger, in which case you will say "that makes me really angry because..." rather than behaving in an angry way, e.g. shouting and name calling.
• Honesty at all times and no "filling in the gaps".
• Permission to give some more thought to an issue and come back to it later (as long as not used as an avoidance tactic).

It follows that basic rules such as no interruptions, no music, tv etc. and phones switched off/silent must be observed too.

A couple of other useful things to do would be to write down a few questions and ask your H to give them some thought and come back to you.

Also, if you feel (as I did) that you are getting so angry you are at risk of exploding (or hitting him!) ask to postpone the conversation for a few minutes/for now while you calm down and gather your composure.

At times my H felt the more angry and accusatory I became, the more defensive and clammed up he felt. With hindsight, those conversations got us nowhere - and his silence and short answers seemed to further inflame.

Perhaps this is mostly about finding a new way to communicate with eachother with honesty.

Also meant to say, I am pleased you did a timeline of the affair and what was happening, but give some thought to doing a timeline of your entire relationship, but do this task together. Chart key life catalysts such as the birth of DCs, new jobs, when the power dynamic changed that you referred to.

And yes, changing avoidant behaviour is absolutely key to affair-proofing your relationship.

Thank you WWIFN.

That's enormously helpful.

I'm wondering if you're still there helicopter?

Sounds like there are similarities between our situations.

I wonder when I read your thread if this lack of affection thing is a topic that should be explored a bit more.

My H also couldn't find aspects of me that he was unhappy with in our recent troubles except lack of affection from me. Initially I thought it would be helpful if I admitted this as a way of me showing how I wasn't defensive in the face of criticism and I was hoping he would mirror that openness to be criticised - IYSWIM? But it didn't work like that at all because I realised when he was describing how I had been cold and distant from him, that my reaction was a very valid and protective mechanism to deal with HIS distance and emotional affair. So I stopped trying to share the burden of responsibility and described how I withdrew from him because I didn't feel safe and loved with him in the same way but felt like I didn't know him anymore and was missing him etc. I made him think about how he would feel if we were great together, then I started going out, not texting, seeming to be having fun with someone else but yet grumpy and miserable at home, often hungover and so on...

My H is spectacularly good at NOT being able to place himself in my shoes. I didn't realise that until now. But I have had to literally force him to paint a picture in his mind of me having an emotional affair with someone else, going into all details until he's had 'the penny dropped' moment. Maybe empathy is something that comes easily to some people - but not my H so he had to be forced to picture a scene in which I was doing all the things he ahd done. Maybe your H needs to really understand this whole situation from your point of view before he can accept what he did as being so hurtful.

On another thing quickly - you ask how you can get back the warm communication. We have slightly tense, on edge communication about this issue whenever it is raised (by me only!), but we have started now to relax and laugh about things to do with the kids and that's bringing me back closer to him. That and a few recap conversations about past times we've shared that have been funny or unusual - bonding times. It felt very artificial at first but a few days on we're clicking back together like we used to and it is such a happier place to be.

Thanks loves2walk.
Sorry not been back to visit this thread for a few days. Was busy putting WWIFN's advice to work!

Funnily, I also often have to work v hard to get my H to see things from my perspective.

Things rather up and down right now.

Much more communication at home in between counseling sessions. But today feel quite down. Thinking about friends whose H's I am certain would never hurt their wives like this. Feeling like a failure for not having perfect marriage. And wondering if I am a complete mug for agreeing to try to repair things.

I'm glad you're communicating more HV and I just wanted to pick up on two points.

Loves2Walk gives brilliant advice above - and if you're reading Not Just Friends, you will see that people having affairs are rarely not "getting" enough of anything; rather they are not "giving" enough. But it is circular in nature.

One stops giving, which leads to the other not giving either. In all the turmoil, it is difficult to see who stopped giving first. However, in the classic "distancing phase" that needs to happen in order to justify an affair of any sort, it always starts with the betrayer. Put simply, the betrayer behaves like such an arse that they get a response behaviour of less affection and warmth. Even subconsciously, the betrayer can then tell himself that "I wouldn't be doing this if my wife were more affectionate..."

It is deeply manipulative behaviour and needs challenging, along with everything else. Your H might not even have been aware that he was doing this, but in a marriage that has always been happy, a betrayer needs to create a gap to allow the affair to start or continue. At some level he realises that he just hasn't got the tired and hackneyed affair justifications of "my wife doesn't understand me, want sex etc." so he behaves so badly that pretty soon, she doesn't understand him or want sex as much as before.

Finally, I completely understand your comparisons with friends' marriages, but believe me, all is not as it seems. My H has always been the "adoring" sort and since we have told very few people about his affair, I'm sure they'd look at me and think "her H would never do that".

This is the downside to not telling people what we are going through and is something I wrestle with all the time. However we have had a few disappointments in terms of understanding from a couple of people and in those cases, telling did more harm than good.

However, I've decided that if any of my friends were brave enough to tell me that something similar had happened to them, I would share my story. The best empathy I got was from someone who had been through something similar. Honestly, HV, from the outside looking in, you very often cannot tell who would do this.

Glad you came back helicopter. I know that up and down feeling really well, I seem to go from feeling childishly delighted with a happy, nonconfrontational conversation/morning to despair when I remember a few texts or closeness between H & OW and suddenley the feeling of being betrayed saps all light and happiness.

My H said he feels like he is living in a stay of execution. It is never far from the surface is it?

One thing that is working for me though - is focusing outside the relationship a bit on me and my needs. You say you stopped work to be a FT mum and he started being more controlling about finances - is that something you want to address? Do you think about getting back into work and regaining some of the equality in your relationship?

As always WWIFN talks such sense. I would agree about other marriages not being all they seem - you just don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I would say ALL my friends have 'issues' of one sort or another.

And I also 'get' that feeling of wondering if you're a mug for trying. You are not, you are taking your commitment seriously and trying to build up a closeness again - that's tough and brave and takes strength. And maybe that's why you need to think about the 'you' in all this - it does take strength to work on a relationship, especially when you probably feel you are having to drive the whole thing - so you need something positive going into your system to give you that strength. Do you have a good pool/gym/health centre nearby you can use or things you do that you feel give you a boost?

I agree about putting more effort into enjoying myself. Over the years I now realise I have been staying in far more than my H. Essentially I've been his babysitter. I didn't really mind at the time because standing in a pub drinking pints is not what I want to do. But events have thrown a spotlight on the disparity between our social lives, and now I am going out more with friends.

I have also been back at work. This was initially to do with the kids both being at school full time, and to do with it being clear that my H would never want another baby. I just wanted to be busy, and contribute financially again.

But as it turns out I have been loving my job. I have had loads of positive feedback, and they have offered me a big promotion (which I turned down because I enjoy freelancing) and further projects. It's great to be appreciated by someone

Yes, I'd agree. Being appreciated through work gives you a real boost and makes you feel there is more to you than the roles of mother, wife, shoulder for friends etc.

Do you feel it would help if you asked yourself for what period of time can you go on with your marriage as it is now? How much longer can you stay working at things without seeing real positive improvement? Set yourself a deadline - 6 months, a year, whatever works for you and say to yourself if things are markedly better by then, you'll explore alternatives for yourself/your family?

It just might give you a feeling of control back

Actually we talked about this in our counseling, but the counselor said that deadlines can be problematic in their own right. They loom up, and become stressful.

However, as you say, this can't drag on forever.

There have been improvements in the last month. And it has only been a month. We're talking again, H has started complimenting me. But God knows how we get the intimacy back.

Have you given yourself a deadline?

I sort of did in that I decided to not disrupt school in the next year so was going to leave any moving house/school till the following year. But we've really started talking and getting on well again now, so I don't feel a need to think about my deadline.

We are talking, laughing together, trying to do nice things for each other but we're still miles away from where we used to be as a couple. Not having sex, not kissing except little hello, goodbye kisses. We are hugging a lot so that's good but the rest is miles away. I so miss being close, but I just can't get my head in that place yet.

Are you able to make time for yourselves to get out together without kids?

In theory we are able to go out, in that we have a babysitter. But we haven't yet.

We have talked about going out for dinner next week. That would be our first time together, alone, talking.

Such a shame that something that was second nature a month ago, won't feel natural.

No, I really feel for you on that, such a shame. You just think what a waste. But you might gradually get back to the intimacy you had previously. Baby steps....

I was just thinking about your situation and wondering if you really feel your H has understood the level of hurt that he has caused and shown enough remorse for you to be able to move on?

It sounds as though you are struggling to let go of this. I struggled for a long time and could not get close with my H during that phase. We were having sex then but it was empty and I felt nothing. Then we had a forcing of the issue and he finally understood how much he had hurt me. He was so distressed by his realisation - stupid that it took me getting legal advice to get him there - but once he'd realised he was and is still so obviously sorry, that I finally feel about able to move on. If he hadn't of had that penny dropped moment, and been completely accepting of his responsibility, I think we would still be in a stalemate.

Yes, theer are thing I am struggling with.

But it's not so much the hurt/trust issues.

What's annoying me is that while my H is happy to work on hmiself (stopped drinking, going out etc) when it comes to working on anything to do with the dynamics of our relationship he's resistant to making any changes.

I'm talking about thnins like me overfunctioning when it comes to sorting out any family issues, him ending up playing 'child' to my 'mother', him emphasising his greater financial clout etc etc etc,

I honestly don't think he sees that those things are out of balance, and have led to resentment. Nor does he patricularly want to change the 'us' picture. Ultmately it suits him to keep the status quo.

Tried talking about this this morning, but ending up having a row right before school. Am going to try again later when we have more time.

HV there was a thread recently where various female contributors admitted to infantilising their Hs to the point of parenting them. It started with complaints about their Hs not washing or taking care of their appearance - and the resultant disinterest in sex shown by the posters. I made the point then that it is astonishing how often these men-children go on to have affairs.

If you are also in a mother-child relationship, I think the root cause of his infidelity is an unwillingness to take personal responsibility for anything.

Having seen your recent posts, I just don't think he "gets this" at all - as Loves says, there has to be an awakening at some point for you to move on. My worry is that your H is either stuck in a rut of thinking that since he didn't have sex (if true) what he did wasn't so bad after all and so your relationship shouldn't have to change much - or he is still regretting a missed opportunity that was thwarted when you answered the phone.

You are quite right that the dynamics in your relationship must change, if something like this is never to happen again. He needs to realise this too though. As I said before, "Normal" doesn't work.

I would have to agree with WWIFN here. My DH behaved like a child all his life, never took responsibility for anything (many issues in his childhood that caused this behaviour). Anyway the upshot was, the less he took responsibility, the more controlling (and motherlike) I became. I replicated the controlling women from his past.

In therapy it was suggested that we needed to meet in the middle ie once he started taking control of the things he should be controlling, I would and could feel like relinquishing control. My DH didn't even take responsibility for his health and ended up hospitalised with pneumonia (which coinsided with his affair turning sexual ), I had been "on at him" to go to the doctors for days.

It has been hard because when you have "controlled" someone for that long, there's an emptiness that appears when you no longer have to do it. You have to feel your mind with other things . It is about the dynamics of the relationship changing and he does have to work on himself and it doesn't appear that he has acknowledged this yet. Has this control issue been raised with the counsellor ?

Interesting Counting! But I would say that the men in these situations are actually the ones doing the controlling, in the way that a child controls their parents through manipulation.

So refusal to do a task quickly or well enough results in it getting done by someone else. The whole situation has been controlled and manipulated by the person avoiding doing what they don't want to do. When the response behaviour of "nagging" (in speech marks because I detest that word) is the result, it's even better because they can blame someone else for being "controlling".

It was the same on the other thread WRT the men not even washing or showing affection and then playing the victim when their spouses very understandably refused sex once in bed. These men could convince themselves all day long that their wives had gone off sex, when the entire situation was of their making, because actually, they didn't want sex at all - but it was easier to put the blame on their wives.

From the outside looking in, it might look as though the "parent" is controlling, when actually they are being manipulated and controlled by a very rebellious "child".