Dating a man who sleeps with his ex

[fizzfiend]

well not exactly. I know what the standard advice for me would be: run away. But I was wondering if it always has to be this way.

Have been seeing a lovely man for 14 months. We are never going to live together or get married (neither of us want this having been married twice before). But once in a blue moon he sees his ex who usually lives abroad and being a woman lover and a man, I'm pretty sure he would sleep with her.

Am I an idiot to stick around? I have no concrete proof by the way, but I know what he's like. We have so much fun together and hhe's very loving and makes me very happy. But he's a typical man in that he doesn't see a "shag" in the same way as we women do. I know that's a generalisation and sorry to all the lovely loyal men out there.

I am so interested to hear all points of view. I am driving myself mad, not necessarily that he is going to run off with her. I really don't think that will happen. More the fact that he will compare us....she looks like a model and I am just normal. I know how this sounds....bloody terrible. I don't have self-esteem issues or anything..but we have the most wonderful times together and it would be a huge loss to have him out of my life.

doesn't matter how he sees it - as long as he knows how YOU see it and if he loves you - your feelings towards his actions would matter.

why not find yourself a little plaything on the side, see if he feels the same way when some other fellas cock is inside you...occasionally.

Depends if you want exclusivity, if he wants exclusivity and if you are both prepared to stick to that.

Because if he does not want to be with you and only you, and he's honest about that, then it's up to you whether that is something you are ok with. If it's not, then you can't take what he's offering and you walk away. If it is, then you enjoy the time you are with him.

He doesn't owe you exclusivity, it's something you agree. So talk. Decide between you whether your relationship is exclusive or not.

You'd only be a fool to stick around if you were unhappy with the arrangement.

Depends. What is he to you? How do you feel about him? Where do you see the relationship going?

If you've been seeing each other for 14 mths, yet the relationship is not serious and is essentially a 'sex and fun' relationship, I think you both need to have a conversation that defines it as such. Otherwise it isn't clear what is 'allowed' in terms of sleeping with other people.

If he's not offered you exclusivity, you're not automatically entitled to it.
It's OK to want it and to have the conversation but when you do have the talk, don't just issue your demands and expect him to give in to them and don't criticize him or weep and issue ultimatums, or suggest couple-therapy if he says he is not into monogamy. He has as much right to his sexual choices as you do, as long as he is honest about them. If you and he are basically not compatible over the issue of exclusivity, then you need to walk away and find someone who is inclined to monogamy - remember that you don't actually have the right to change another person's behaviour against that person's wishes.

Have you told him how you feel about it?

Also - do you use protection as you have no idea how many other men she is shagging!

He's not a lovely man. He was having an affair with you while you were married. Fidelity therefore isn't desperately important to him. It would be difficult to engage new rules now, given the start you have had. If you expect total fidelity from him, then ask for it. He can always say no - and then you've got some decisions to make. But if you haven't had a conversation yet about your fidelity to one another, perhaps you should.

I get you custardo, I really do. You know what...maybe I will :-)

He sounds like an arse doesn't he, but he's not...does doing that make him an arse? I know that's the conventional wisdom. Oh so tricky. He's just the most interesting and funny man I've ever met.

I think if you are already torturing yourself over whether he is comparing you (IMO men don't really do this; they are good at just focusing on what they have got in front of them) then continuing with this is a fast way to misery.

It depends what you want out of relationships now/in the future. If you want him to put you above her, well, he may not do that. You would need to have resources of your own so that you can benefit from his loveliness without ever relying on him for anything. I think that's perfectly doable if it's what YOU want.

Oh WWIFN, you have too good a memory, but you are right about the affair bit. But he knew my dh wouldn't sleep with me, and I was the one that instigated it.

Plus he's lovely in that he's kind and generous and thoughtful. Can you not be those things and someone who doesn't take a shag terribly seriously. Bear in mind that I am second guessing him here, but I think I'm trying to get my head round it if or when it happens.

And thank you to the others who say that it can be done if I'm happy with it...I guess I just have to work out if I can live with it. But I don't know if I can. UGH! Why do we have this obsession with sexual exclusivity when it shouldn't really matter after childbearing years? I hate myself for caring so much about it.

I know. I have the memory of an elephant, which can be a blessing and a curse

I think though this is one of those situations where the phrase "you pay your money and you take your choice" comes to mind. A man who cared about fidelity and for whom monogamy was important would have resisted your instigation and insisted you ended your marriage first. Now you seem to think that most men wouldn't be that honourable, but he probably doesn't think you're honourable either. He perhaps would bargain that fidelity isn't a big deal for you either.

If you want to move your relationship on to one that is exclusive and monogamous, then I think you've got to have that conversation and make decisions accordingly. Don't pretend not to mind if he has sex with others, if in fact you do mind. Don't wish you didn't care if it's patently obvious that you do. He must have the same courtesy afforded to him. He has the right to sign up to monogamy, or not.

For many people, sexual exclusivity has got nothing to do with child-rearing, it's just what they prefer and feel happier about. Just as monogamy would sit badly with SGB, promiscuity or polyamorous relationships would sit badly for me. The thing SGB and I have in common however is that we are honest about how we truly feel and wouldn't pretend to be something we're not.

There are exes I see, and have even been to stay, and i certainly don't sleep with them, even though we still get on and have fun.

There is one ex I would have slept with (I was single at the time) and though we were having a great time socialising, and both away from home at a conference, he tactfully but clearly removed himself from that possibility because he was in a relationship.

You need to have the conversation about what both of you are wanting / offering, but also, don't just presume.

Of course a person can be good company, kind and wonderful despite having no interest in monogamy. Lots of people simply don't make that big a deal about having enjoyable sex with consenting partners.ANd lots of people who are monoagmous are also horrible, and make lousy partners, a preference for sexual exclusivity is not any particular indication of someone being lovely, thoughtful, kind, entertaining etc.

Oh and don't let people make you feel guilty about your 'affair' if you had an abusive partner, affairs are often a positive thing in such situations as they actually give the abused person strength and self esteem necessary to bin the abuser.

It seems like you are happy to take whatever you can from him and will put up with him shagging other people as you don't want to be on your own.

Who said the OP's H was abusive SGB? All Fizzfiend has ever said was that he didn't want sex, in which case there was another choice other than an affair, which was to leave him. If not wanting sex that often or even at all is classified as abusive behaviour, there are an awful lot of female abusers on Mumsnet, it would seem...

Thank you for a lot of really good opinions. And I have to add my subject title was very misleading. To my knowledge he hasn't ever slept with his ex...I'm probably being unfair on him. But I do feel better just getting it out of my system. Guess we should have "the talk" soon...eek!

I have to agree with SGB about the abuse thing .... not conventional abuse but bloody hell when a man pushes you away incessantly it really hurts...he knows it and doesn't care.

I was in a similar position to Fizzfiend in my own marriage - which was one of the reasons leading to our breakup. It is downright cruel to deny your partner sex and affection and not attempt do anything about it such as seek counselling or even admit to your partner it's not right as my exh did (you can give affection presumably even if ill) and therefore breaks vows.

I am sure if I had gone off sex for whatever reason (hell would have prob frozen over ] I would have tried all sorts of ways of getting it back because I would have recognised that it would be having an impact on a partner.

Therefore I would have had certainly taken a lover whilst my marriage was dying and would not have felt at all guilty about it.

Sex/physical affection is importantin a marriage/couple relationship and if it isn't happening long term then what's to differentiate the marriage from good friends?

So I don't blame Fizz whatsoever for having her affair in those particular circumstances.

And she has the right now the relationship has moved on to try to change the goalposts.

Even if you are in an affair you prob don't want OM/OW sleeping with others evem though you have no right to insist of course. Oh the irony!!

I just don't accept in all cases the marriage must limp to its close before you can be close to someone else.

In my own case I really don't think my exh would have cared if I had.

meant to add that my exh wasn't physically ill.

He may have suffered depression/OCD or have aspergers but certainly was unwilling to address the former and also refused to come to Relate counselling with me.

SGB - well said. Just because someone is monogamous doesn't necessarily mean they are nice in other ways! When I think about it, some of my friends (ex) husbands were the faithful type - but hideous in other ways - eg: controlling, bullying, chauvenistic etc. One was a completely immature bully but when his wife eventually sought solace in the arms of someone less horrible than him, he then had the audacity to become hideously self-righteous into the bargain and play the cuckolded husband card. Luckily, no-one was particularly impressed by his crocodile tears and I think the current wife finds him pretty insufferable too.

I think there is a hell of a lot of bargaining going on here for justifying deceit and suspect that a woman posting about her H's affair after she had gone off sex would not be told by posters that she was being abusive and had only herself to blame. Rather, she would be told that an affair is an abusive act.

Marriages don't have to "limp to an end" - and I greatly sympathise Fizzfiend for the pain you must have suffered because of constant rejection and no attempts being made to remedy the situation. But I just don't understand why it is preferable to stay in a marriage and have an affair at the same time, when the kindest most ethical thing to have done would have been to end the marriage, which as I understood it, your H has done now, OP.

Good luck with your talk - after 14 months I think it is probably overdue. Hopefully you will feel able to tell him what you want from the relationship and with any luck, he will feel the same.

but there is a difference between someone of either sex who goes off sex long term (and I stress long term) and addresses it with their spouse and acknowledges that ther the problem than someone who refuses to engage despite being asked by their husband/wife what's wrong etc.

if it was woman who was refusing to admit there was a problem or take action to address then I would think her h would be justified in acting as Fizz did and as I would have done.

Because their actions - denying the problem - show a lack of feeling for their spouse.

And marriages can limp to an end esp if dcs involved or a house to be sold. I would say that mine was going down the pan badly for about a year before we were able to separate and not brilliant before that - I took my wedding ring off towards the end because to all intents and purposes we weren't married - just two unhappy people sharing a house.

Sometimes as things are unravelling you almost can't believe it's happening tbh.

And in my case my then h kept saying we couldn't separate because 'he would end up in a bedsit' and he refused also to leave. Eventually he stopped paying the mortgage so I forced the sale of the mh to stop it being repossessed.

RL is often messy and sticky unfortunately.

Thing is, when a partner is enforcing celibacy on you against your wishes (ie either will not discuss the lack of sex or basically tells you you wil just have to suck it up, or implies that you are disgusting or sick for having a libido) rather than agreeing to address the issue, seek counselling, compromise etc, then this can be abusive, it can grind a person down in just the same way that (for instance) constantly being told you are ugly, or nuts, or don't have sex enough can eat away at your self esteem. So you feel horrible, unlovable and worthless. Often, having an affair is the trigger for realising your marriage/bad relationship has to end because the new potential partner has woken you up to the fact that you are potentially lovable and deserve to be treated kindly.

I know it is the right thing to end a marriage before anything else begins. But somehow, that doesn't always happen. Maybe through cowardice, fear of breaking up a family for no massively special reason, and sometimes, in hope that things will get back on track. I always hoped that DH would see me a little happier and perhaps see the old me that he fell in love with. But he had lost all interest in my physically...and subsequently as a person...I do think the two are intertwined.

I never felt guilty during the affair...I had tried for years and years and every single tactic that I could. By the time the affair had happened I had given up but was still terrified of rocking the boat, not because of my comfort, but because it sounds like such a selfish reason to end a marriage - "I was getting no sex". Of course I know no sex means no intimacy and no emotional connection eventually, but it still sounds like a feeble reason to end everything and put the kids through all they have to go through, etc.

I remember you too, FF

I kinda think along the lines of "you reap what you sow" too in this particular instance

Your marriage was sexless and made you miserable...I get that you looked for fun, excitement and intimacy outside of it

Now it seems you may want more from your "fun and exciting" lover than he is prepared to give

Oh dear. You are in a bit of a pickle and I do actually sympathise with you (as I did on your old threads)

Do you think you may frighten "Mr Exciting" away if you start and try to clip his wings a bit...?

Now, now AF! I really do not want to clip anybody's wings...I know that you cannot make people do things that they don't want to do. Especially OM who tends to do the opposite if he's ordered to do something. It's more of a case of trying to find a way of viewing the situation from a different angle...and trying not to be so black and white about every situation. And trying to get it into my thick skull that this is the situation and I either accept it or move on (making my opinions...whatever those are!.... clear in the meantime).

Sometimes I just need people to give me options because otherwise I have the devil and angel on each shoulder battling it out and never winning.

Life is full of conundrums...sure it wasn't this hard when I was 8!