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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Would you 'stand by' family members?

27 replies

maktaitai · 14/06/2010 14:43

It's funny, I always thought that I would stand by friends and family who did things that were wrong, would visit them in prison etc.

Well, now that a family member has done something I find despicable, I really don't want to be in touch with them, although I doubt I will be brave enough to actually break contact. I guess that's the real world. Have you had to face this, and did you stick with your friend, or leave them to stew?

OP posts:

FabIsGettingFit · 14/06/2010 14:45

I haven't but if my husband ever did anything illegal or against a child I would divorce him quicker than you could say get me a solicitor.

I don't think it is about leaving them to stew.

maktaitai - what is the offence?

SagacityNell · 14/06/2010 14:46

It would depend what that offence was tbh.

Sidge · 14/06/2010 14:47

It depends what the offence is.

If someone I knew did something despicable I would have no hesitation in breaking all contact.

AnyFucker · 14/06/2010 14:50

There are certain things I would cut contact for immediately...unprovoked or minimally provoked violence, child abuse, murder, torture of an animal, there is probably more if I wracked my brains

Some things I would forgive and stand by them (depending on what/who it was)...theft if desperate for money, use of drugs, alcohol (if seeking help and meaning it) etc etc

Original poster

maktaitai · 14/06/2010 14:53

this thread

it's more than that i suppose - if this were completely out of character, then that would be one thing - however it is completely in character

OP posts:

4andnotout · 14/06/2010 14:54

Dp is an ex con as are most of his family, I could stand by small offences but no acts of violence or rape or child abuse for instance. Dp is a completely changed man and I'm glad I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he told me about his past.

NanKid · 14/06/2010 14:58

Depends.

My uncle killed someone while drink-driving. Obviously I totally disagree with drink driving and think he deserved to go to prison. However, I did visit him in prison and 'stand by him' because I believed he deserved a second chance. He killed an innocent person - an extremely serious crime, a tragedy, something nobody would take lightly - yet he did his time, he lived with the enormous regret and guilt and he wanted to change, to get help with his drinking and to make something good of the life he had left. I supported that.

There are other crimes I could not forgive, however.

Downdog · 14/06/2010 15:43

My stepmother left my father after discovering 100's of child porn images on his computer.

We confronted him as a family - deny, deny deny, and then finally he admitted yes he did download these images, but it was research, blah blah, he never got off on it etc etc.

I cannot begin to describe how my world turned upside down, inside out. You never know someone really.

He was charged, convicted on some counts, successfully appealed (technical matters), and after a few years was once again practicing as a lawyer.

I didn't have anything to do with him for years - but that hurts almost as much as the knowledge that my DAD downloaded child porn, probably for several years, on a family computer, where it was discovered by his 13 years old daughter.

I have been the staunchest towards him in my family - but it's easier for me as I live far far away from them all.

Last visit home (8 years after it all blew up) I saw him twice - at family BBQ's. Minimal contact.

He's a fucker, he disgusts me, but he's my Dad. That's where I am after 8 years.

DD is 2.5 - all my family know under no account at all, is DD ever to be alone in a room when he is around - ever. Of course I see to this myself, but what if he came to visit my sister for lunch when she was looking after DD? All this shit will be in my head and in my life forever.

Would I have visited him in jail (if he went)? Probably not - but that isn't because of the crime he committed (and he did comit a crime whatever the courts say), but because of the way he handled himself during the whole sorry mess, which was DENY, BLAME, DENY, BLAME etc etc - that is actually the most frightening thing about this - he actually BELIEVES he never did anything wrong, there has been a terrible witchhunt against him etc.

NanKid · 14/06/2010 15:46

Downdog, that is awful. I felt that sick feeling in my stomach reading your post. What a painful situation for you.

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 14/06/2010 15:55

A close family member has been convicted of a serious crime. I stood by him, after serious consideration, as did the rest of the family and all of his friends. Can't go in to it here, but the law is black and white, yet people's lives aren't.

Downdog · 14/06/2010 15:55

yes it is - and it still hurts me every time I think about it. I have moved on in the sense I don't think about it every day now, but I've lost my Dad, and in such a dreadful sick and sordid way. I feel that he personally participated in the abuse of every child who's photograph he looked at - but I've always felt like that even before this came into my life in such a personal way. (God crying at my desk now - silly mare!)

IsGraceAvailable · 14/06/2010 15:57

It's an interesting question. A friend's relative has split the family down the middle with his child abuse crimes. I would be on the "distanced" side. I have tolerated financial abuse (fraud) and petty crimes in loved ones, but wouldn't do so again - the crimes described the person; I was wrong to think otherwise.

I'd distance myself from organised crime, again because of the attitude it reveals - but I am a hypocrite, because I've knowingly bought extra-production designer goods & smuggled fags.

Violence is a tough one. Some of my close relatives are domestic abusers; some of my friends "get into fights". I hate what they do, but I don't hate them ...

Driving offences I can forgive, unless there's a habit of reckless behaviour. Shoplifting by teenagers and distressed adults, ditto. Underage drinking; drugs dealing (except heroin & crack); small-time fares & fees dodging - probably should bothr me, but they don't.

Thanks for provoking the thoughts!

When I read your other thread, I really felt for you - and that somebody was trying to leverage your own moral conscience. Horrible for you, and I don't blame you for being furious that he put you in such a position.

driedapricots · 14/06/2010 16:07

my 'step' cousin has just been convicted for raping my niece. I have cut contact with him obviously but also my auntie (it's her 'step' son so no blood relative; he has only been living with her for 5 years since the age of 18, when this happened) because she is standing by him and fully supporting him (prison visits etc) and I am my sister's (mother of the victim) main support - the two relationships are just not compatible
but..it's not easy and i don't feel entirely comfortable with it. it just comes down to a gut feeling and your own moral values/judgement

i feel for you downdog

OP - from what i can see it is not your problem to resolve...you are not legally or morally responsible. apologies and empathy yes, but that's where it ends for you imo

Acinonyx · 14/06/2010 16:35

I have shocked myself by being unable to tolerate some behaviours/actions. I just can't - and you can't make yourself if that's how you feel. And the closer the person is - the harder it is. I lost a very good friend this way and I don't know if I should be ashamed or not - I just couldn't come to terms with what had happened. I just couldn't carry on as normal.

I don't really believe there is any such thing as unconditional love - and I don't think there should be either. Maybe for a child (espeicially while they're a child - not so sure about as an adult - some people have had some terrible stuff to deal with from adult children...) - I hope I never have to test that one!

IsGraceAvailable · 14/06/2010 17:43

Acinonyx, you are absolutely right. There is no unconditional love between adults, not should there be. Children, however, love unconditionally and are entitled to be loved that way.

Problems arise when adults, who didn't receive their entitlement as children, keep on trying to get it.

FabIsGettingFit · 14/06/2010 18:21

Reading the first bit of your thread, OP, no I don't think the daughter has a moral duty to help you financially when it wasn't her that took the money.

FabIsGettingFit · 14/06/2010 18:25

Sorry, I was distracted by the kids and posted to soon.

N, you don't owe anyone anything.

Hulababy · 14/06/2010 18:28

It would very much depnd on which relationship it was and the offences committed, and the situation behind it all too.

Obviously, there are some crimes that could never been excused in my yes, but others possibly, esp minor offences.

I think if it was your child it is a whole different scenario once more.

When I worked in a high cat prison I often saw parents visiting their children, in their late teens and early 20s, some of whom were in their indefinitely on long sentences or on life sentences. I had the chance to speak to some of these parents once in my job - and if was the unconditional love between a parent and child that brought them there. They couldn't forget or firgive the crime, but they could be there for their son. So, it isn't always about forgiveness - just about being there.

People with no support or anyone to stand by them are less likely to reform.

overmydeadbody · 14/06/2010 18:31

Do you want to stand by your dad maktaitai?

Because if you don't, if you find what he did dispicable then you have every right to cut all contact. You don't have to tell him that's what you're doing, you can just have as little as possible to do with him in future and tell him why if he ever asks.

MintHumbug · 14/06/2010 18:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LittleMissHissyFit · 14/06/2010 18:45

You know what maktaitai, it doesn't have to be all or nothing right now. You can tell him that you are finding this whole business really sordid and can't deal with it.

So take a break for a while, if that's what you feel like doing, and see what happens.

Doubtless the whole story will come out and you meanwhile can make a decision on if you want to reinstate contact.

Downdog · 14/06/2010 22:22

cutting yourself off from one person - failry easy to manage that if you want to.

But what if the rest of your family handle things differently to you? This is what happened in my family - everyone dealt with it very differently. For a while it felt like my family had splintered beyond repair (not that we were ever an especially close knit bunch). But we have survived as a family, albeit a very different family from what we were before.

But if I were to cut my father out completely, then it would mean making my family choose between him & me, which I don't think is fair on anyone.

So I walk a middle ground - I tolerate him, I vocally oppose him if I think he is talking shite but beyond being polite when he asks me something, I am extremely distant. Possibly that is harder for him than if he never saw me.

Take your time - do what feels best. Be prepared that with time what feels best may change.

Riveroflight · 14/06/2010 22:32

Downdog - I have experienced the same as you but for me it is very recent. I struggled to know if I should contact him or not again but he rarely contacts me anyway so its much easier to forget he exists. As its so new for me I am not sure if I have come to terms with it but I guess for now I am very cold inside as I am completely unable to cry or feel very sad about it. I have no emotions I guess.

myrrhandbalm · 14/06/2010 23:08

I've no answer to this. I, personally, don't know what I'd do. It would depend on lots of things. I would, however, suggest trying to imagine how it will work out long-term.

If it's a one-off and/or his behaviour is containable, that's one thing. If you think it's indicative of behaviour that's going to cause you trouble in the long-term that's another.

A big thing is thinking about his impact on your dc. They will forge a relationship with him that will, initially, be child-adult, ie. they will be very trusting. If you think his personality is such that he's going to be bending you out of shape in the future wrt his relationship with your dc, you might want to think, now, about how you're going to manage that.

It may well be that this is not an issue, but I would suggest you think about that aspect.

Also, while his relationship with your dc might be fine, because he has that relationship with children, it'll leave you quite tied and committed should anything come up in the future, that impacts on you.

I suggest this because I have a fairly difficult, at times, relationship with my own parents. They were out of my life for years, but I let them back in when I had dc. Usually it's all fine, sometimes, it's tricky. I now have no "wiggle room" in my relationship with my parents because I have to facilitate their relationship with the children. Their relationship with the children is great. With me ... not so great. But I'm stuck now.

While my issue with my parents is not similar to yours, for myself, I wish I'd kept the break, though it seemed unthinkably disloyal at the time.

But that's me, not you. And a completely different issue.

Good luck. What a rubbish situation to be in.

Original poster

maktaitai · 14/06/2010 23:52

Thanks all for your stories and thoughts. I still don't know what I'm going to do but maybe that's OK - as you suggest LittleMiss.

OP posts:

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