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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

extreme insecurity leading to ruin part 2!

39 replies

fathersday · 10/06/2010 10:31

reposted original OP with paragrpahs to make easier to read! sorry for initial load of block text!

Objectively speaking my husband is an absolutely wonderful man. He has a lovely caring outlook on life, lives by very firm principles, is professionally very successful and is, not that a matters in the slightest, very good looking.

He was attracted to me and I to him initially as we seemed very similar ? both outgoing, confident, clever, happy. We got married and I was as sure as sure can be that I was making a great decision.

We have now been married 8 years, as time has gone on we have become more and more different. I have remained as I always have been, really happy in anyone?s company, undaunted by almost any social situation, happy to talk to anyone, and not really experiencing shyness that much.

I like going out, but don?t go out that much as I like much more staying at home with my family. I like to be there for my children and they all have busy lives that need a lot of administration ? arranging socialising with other children, making sure they have everything they need for school trips, projects etc, and helping them with their homework and other activities at home. They are undoubtedly my priority.

However every now and again, I do go out, to a party, with friends, whatever. I would dearly love it if my husband came with me and enjoyed himself. Sometimes he does come with me. It is almost always an unmitigated disaster. If too many other people talk to me, he gets upset and wants to leave. He usually ends up leaving early and I always go with him as I feel guilty about him going angrily or upset home on his own. But I also resent this as I feel it is putting an end to one of my few nights out, when there is no real reason for it apart from his - as I see it ? ludicrous insecurity.

It is not so much that he thinks I will cheat on him (I would never ever do this), he says the fact that I am popular and people want to talk to me, more than him, makes him feel bad.

From my point of view, everyone wants to speak to each of us equally, all through the night, we will be in equal demand, not that it is a competition anyway, until he starts his moody withdrawal from everything, often accompanied by calling me ?Miss Popularity? and then, when he gives monosyllabic answers to people or even ignores them completely preferring to whisper in my ear about how we need to go and how popular I am and how he holds me back and so should just leave me there, then perhaps understandably, people tactfully leave him alone. I am at my wits end.

He says he would be happier if he was with someone more mediocre as my success and popularity (obviously these are his words and his perspective, this is not what I am saying about myself!) make him feel rubbish and he feels in my shadow.

I love him very much and when the going is good, it is really very good ? he is a great dad, and is funny and witty and can socialise, but only when there is absolutely no threat that I may speak to someone of around our age, that I am not related to.

We have built a wonderful life together which I know from the outside must look perfect ? our children are all healthy and happy, we have great jobs, enough money and a lovely place to live. I have everything I have always wanted, apart from a husband who has the confidence to enjoy a social life with me.

OP posts:
mamsnet · 10/06/2010 10:33

Good luck getting some more points of view here..

EleanorHandbasket · 10/06/2010 10:34

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SolidGoldBrass · 10/06/2010 10:35

Put your foot down and be firm with this man. Tell him that he can either behave himself like an adult or fuck off.
What he is doing is undermining you to make himself feel better about his own inadequacies. It's actually a subtle form of abuse, the idea is to make you insecure, isolated and dependent on him.

fathersday · 10/06/2010 10:49

I don't think he is that calculating as to be trying to isolate me etc, but I do feel that if I let him succeed or let him acrry on, that will be the outcome. Sometimes i apologise to him for whatever trivial conversation i haev had which has annoyed him even thuogh i am not in the slightest bit sorry, i just want him to stop going on about it. i know how counter productive it is. i need to be told. i really need to hear this! thank you

When I am ill he is always fantastic. He looks after me so well. That is when he really comes into his own.

OP posts:
mamsnet · 10/06/2010 10:52

He needs to feel needed, doesn't he? He's so insecure that he feels better when he's being the strong one..

EleanorHandbasket · 10/06/2010 10:52

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fathersday · 10/06/2010 10:54

I think you are absolutely right. He needs to feel needed and feels better when he is the strong one and likes it when i am dependant on him. this is so true.

maybe i should just leave hmi at home when i go out and just say that is how it is, if he wants to come he can and that would be great but if he thinks he might be an arse, could he just stay at home as i want to enjoy muself. though that is not exactly the most promising way to look at our social life!

OP posts:
mamsnet · 10/06/2010 10:56

yes, be firm, as you say in your last post.. but DO something about it too!

AttilaTheMeerkat · 10/06/2010 10:56

fathersday

re your comment re your H:-

"lives by very firm principles"

I'd like to know exactly what is meant by that as that gives the impression he is not at all easy going within the home.

I feel he is indeed trying to control you by calling the shots on all the socialising you do. It is telling that he will socialise on his terms and not yours - that is control and control by its very nature is abuse. Controlling men are also angry men more often than not.

If he decides to go home early don't fgs leave and go with him as this only panders to his warped way of thinking even more. Let him go home alone. Sod feeling guilty about him in such a way. How would you feel about actually doing that?.

I note too you write about him being a "great dad" - this is often written when the woman on the receiving end has nothing at all very positive to say about their own man in terms of their own feelings towards him. He is not being a great Dad or even a good H is he continues to undermine you like this; it will affect you and by turn the children to see him act like this.

On a far wider level, what are you teaching the children about relationships here?.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 10/06/2010 11:01

What are his parents like - he has learnt this pattern of behaviour undoubtedly from them.

You are a person in your own right, you are important too. He does not like it one bit when you show your own independence socially. He feels threatened by you asserting your own independence here.

What is his reaction when you tell him how you feel the next morning after leaving early again at his behest?. Does he give you the brush off or says that you're being over sensitive about the whole matter?. His reaction to such a question would be very telling.

fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:02

No his firm principles are ethical - fair trade / recycling etc - beliefs i share - not strict in our house or anything like that. he is very easy going and nice and affectionate with the children. he is really not all bad! It is just this one thing - the socialising thing. WE are absolute equals in everything else - decisions on kids, housework, careers, money, decisions on holidays, where we live, houses we buy etc. We are completely equal in all those respects and I would not have it any other way.

The socialising is the difficulty though. If he was a tosser to me all the time and in other respects I would have no hesitation in showing him the door and I would have done it years ago! Honestyl, I am not a wimpy wall flower I promise!

The reason this is so difficult for me is because there is so much good in the relationship, this is the only bad thing, but as the kids come out of babyhood and we are able to go to parties etc more (not loads, just once a month or whatever), it is becoming a bit of an issue. although, if I am totally honest, it has been a bit of an issue in terms of sociliasing with other families with kids - I love this, going camping with other families, all the kids run around and have a great time. DH not so keen on this. Would rather we went on our own!

OP posts:
fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:03

his reaction the morning after is to say how rubbish heis and how great i am and how difficult it all is for him. And I nod sympathetically and want to kill him.

OP posts:
munchkinland · 10/06/2010 11:06

fathersday, really wanted to add to your post as at the moment, I am your DH.
I am suffering with A-N depression and am finding it increasingly difficult to see my DH (whom I adore and who I know adores me) being sociable and popular while I feel down right awful.
Admitedly, I am having other issues to deal with - weight, not being able to drink and not feeling like 'myself' but why I have to take this out on my DH??? I honestly don't know, I just can't help it.

Whenever we go out, I end up sitting in a corner by myself muttering about how no one wants to talk to me and I might as well not be there, and feeling sooooooo jealous of DH and how popular he is and how everyone just wants to be around him (really - this is not related to worries of female/male flirting etc... it genuinely is just the attention)
The worst thing is that I know it's happening and the more upset I get myself about it, the worse it gets but it feels like it is impossible to get out of this vicious circle.

I am also better if I am out without him for some reason...I can't explain this.

It's very difficult to know what to say to you to be able to help him, but I feel soooo much better when DH is with me and insuring that he includes me in EVERY conversation, stays by my side etc.

I am acutley aware that this is very needy behaviour and not normal, but to be honest I am not 'normal' at the moment. The only good thing about it all is that I can see an end to it....and it is all for the greater good as we will have a baby at the end of it all.

Maybe your DH is depressed (not obviously) and maybe he does need some coucelling/advice etc. but maybe something that could help even if just for the next couple of times when you go out is you making him feel like he is the centre of your world. Yes it is needy and can't carry on forever....but it might help boost his self esteem, which lets face it, who doesn't need that from time to time.

There is so much more I could say about this, but don't want to post masses of info (I am not great at wording things and don't want to offend anyone - as threads on here so often do) but am happy to answer any specific Q's if helpful

fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:06

He doesn't know his father at all. His mother is someone with extreme insecurities also. I have pointed this out to DH and that him behaving like this makes it more likely our children will suffer the same as him and his mum, and that this behaviour may be nurture as well as nature or instead of. He accepted that he would never want any of the children to feel as bad as he does.

I think actually he is trying over the last couple of weeks since We had a major disaster recently with a social event I had been looking forward to for ages and which he cocked up for me. though i didn't leave, i just left him to stomp off home alone, but t would have been so much nicer if he'd stayed. Also I felt very constricted in terms of who i could speak to and ended up in fact not speaking to a number of the people i would have loved to speak to, for fear of DH getting upset and walking out...and then he got upset and walked out anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OP posts:
mamsnet · 10/06/2010 11:07

We socialise loads with other families.. lunches, BBQs, picnics, whatever and I think it's great for the kids and lovely for us parents too as we can get some adult company in when the kids are having fun (Babysitting at night complicated..) and I would never give up on this..
Maybe camping is a bit full on as a starting point but if you could do shorter occasions like picnics he could adjust slowly and see the value of this too all the family, himself included.
You say he's a great Dad.. I think one of a great Dad's first responsibilities is to keep Mum happy!

fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:10

munchinland thank you so much!
However I do all that stuff you say. I stay right by his side when we are out, I rarely leave him - partly i love him and enjoy his company, partly i know the consequences if i don't. He is never left sitting in the corner on his own. I am always right there beside him. I know what he needs and I give it to him - I love him and want him to be happy. I just don't think it is enough. I want some magic solution to boost his confidence and make him see how lovely he is and how is has nothing to worry about.
Also, whatever is wrong with him has been wrong with him for about 6 years now!

OP posts:
fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:10

munchinland thank you so much!
However I do all that stuff you say. I stay right by his side when we are out, I rarely leave him - partly i love him and enjoy his company, partly i know the consequences if i don't. He is never left sitting in the corner on his own. I am always right there beside him. I know what he needs and I give it to him - I love him and want him to be happy. I just don't think it is enough. I want some magic solution to boost his confidence and make him see how lovely he is and how is has nothing to worry about.
Also, whatever is wrong with him has been wrong with him for about 6 years now!

OP posts:
JazzieJeff · 10/06/2010 11:16

Is there any way you could convince him into speaking to a professional? He obviously has unresolved issues that are affecting your life together, and it's not your job to be a counsellor!

fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:18

I am definitely going to try. I have got him to the GP about this before, but then the GP didn't actually make the referral as promised and it all kind of fell away which was soul destroying as it had taken months of persuasion to get him there.

I need a direct self referral psych / counsellor where you just ring up 'hello, can i have an appointment? thank you. see you on tuesday.' - does that exist?
we can pay.

OP posts:
fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:20

muchniland - what would make you stop doing that? you obviously see the sitation for what it is as you recognise yourself in my OP. Do you resent DH? Or do you understand how hard it is for him? Does he tell you he understands how yuo are feeling, that it is ok but that you have to work on sorting yourself out? how does it work? thank you so much for posting! I am so glad to ghave someone who can provide me with the insight i need.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 10/06/2010 11:21

If his Mum has acted similar in the past it is more likely to be learnt behaviour and thus even more difficult to undo such patterns.

This to me is also worrying;-
" I stay right by his side when we are out, I rarely leave him - partly i love him and enjoy his company, partly i know the consequences if i don't".

What are the consequences you refer to, what is he like towards you the next day?. You seem to pander to his behaviours when you are out, let him bloody go home on his own like last time!.

Have you seen him in a social situation with his work collegues, what is he like with those people?.

He is showing no indication currently that he actually wants to address the root causes of these problems. What's his view on counselling, presumably that has been discussed before now?. He is not actually your responsibility, he is responsible for his own actions ultimately.

fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:24

consequences are just him feeling shit, and me feeling sorry for him - not sorry for anything i have done, i know i have done nothing wrong - just sad that my poor DH who i married when he was this glorious young confident party man, is suffering.
i have pandered until recently, when i realised years ofpandering had got me no where!new no pander policy implemented a little while ago. is making no difference apart from that i end up having longer nights out, which is actually better, my resentment of him is much less extreme. he doesnt completely wreck the night this way, just makes it a bit less good.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 10/06/2010 11:24

BACP have a list of counsellors and they may prove to be helpful.

Did you go last time to the GP with your H?. It may be that your H did not want such a referral to be made, is that scenario a possibility?.

fathersday · 10/06/2010 11:24

i didnt go no. That could most certainly be a poss. It has crossed my mind. WIll google BACP. thank you for that

OP posts:
1footinfront · 10/06/2010 12:00

I feel so, for you. I have total empathy as I have been there, truly.

Yes,you certainly can just call a therapist and see one in a few days if you are self-funding.

Personally, given the background, I personally think its best anyway, as in my area anyway, anything other than a quick course of CBT you'll be waiting months upon months. Without exploring the basis of this, my personal view is that its fairly useless, but then I might be talking out of turn.

He has to want it though. He has to realise that the way he acts is simply not natural/normal/ acceptable. The whispering sounds very intimidating to me

I am dealing with a very similar situation with Ex/p, we are on a break at the moment. He has literally put the brakes on so many things Ive wanted to do, to the point where I dont feel confident in socialising at all.Ive had the destroying of social events too, to the point where Ive felt so humiliated, I feel I can no longer "show my face" in front of the people who were there, just too ashamed.

Only now can I consider what I want, and have to try and build a social life for myself, however, feeling rather paralysed about this at the moment

Please dont let it get to the stage I'm at. Please dont.

I guess one aspect is that he can "throw money at it" by going but if he is not willing to truly explore the deep feelings that give rise to this, then it will be a smoke screen. I think there is something very interesting about his mother and her anxieties, Im sure he has learned so many behaviours from his formative years.

Good luck with this and keep me posted, would love to hear how this goes on.

Love from 1foot.

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