Please tell me if it's hopeless...

[Lamazed]

Been together for 4 years, have 2 DCs (2yrs and 8months). Have been going to relate for the last 6 weeks to try to save things.

Basically, there is no intimacy in our relationship (have had sex 3 times since birth of DD last October, all on my initiation. DH has no sexual desire whatsover, never instigates. I feel totally undesirable etc.

I feel as if I have to make a decision - things aren't going to change for him. Intimacy is not a necassary part of his existence - this has always been the case (and probably contributed to the breakdown of previous marriage). No amount of relate sessions are going to change this (by his own admittance in the argument we have been having since yesterday).

The decision is this ...

A) Stay and accept that my children are more important than my own needs and that they deserve to be brought up with both parents (he is a fantastic DH in all other ways, brilliant Dad, my best friend etc

B) Realise that I have the right to have my needs fulfilled and that the only reason that I am staying is that bringing the kids up without DH 'here' is going to be really hard work coupled with the fact that I'm overweight, have really low self esteem etc and ultimately, it's easier to stay in this relationship than to even contemplate starting again.

Is it hopeless?

IMHO - he can be a brilliant dad with you two being split up. Plenty of divorced dads are fantastic. If you stay together you are in danger of ending up having an affair and that would be much worse.

Splitting up a relationship is a big responsibility and very very scary, but plenty of us here on Mumsnet have come out the other side.

I suggest B)

Am very sorry to hear this. Every situation is different and I can only say that in my case, I did stay for the children. Things got gradually worse and we last had sex when children were 5 and 7 (they're now 12 and 14). I too lost all self-esteem, put on loads of weight and got very depressed but couldn't see a way out that wouldn't hurt the children (and I considered everything I'm sad to say). About 18 months ago I finally realised that the example I was giving the children was worse than anything that would happen if we split. Spent 6 months getting head round it and getting physically fitter (and that suddenly became so much easier). Am now living on my own with the girls, they spend half their time with me and half with their dad, we've had some hiccups and it's not been plain sailing but I'm so much happier and the children can see that. Guess my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to let you know you're not alone and happy to talk at any time. My biggest problem was needing to talk about it but not being able to discuss with friends as they all thought he was wonderful - such a good dad (as he is)

Oh. I was so hoping that someone would say that it was worth the struggle...

I know that it's hopeless. It's just that the alternative is so awful I can't even begin to contemplate it let alone do anything about making the change.

Plus we're skint and can barely afford sharing one home let alone run two.

ok, so maybe you need to think about other ways of solving the problem. The worst bit for me was the continually hoping that things would get better, desperate for any signs of affection and constantly being rejected (and no - I didn't pester him for sex morning noon and night lol). I guess from where I am now, I wish we had just agreed that for the time being we would live together for the children - ie no sex, flatmates only but could still have hugs and cuddles as you would with friends and when the financial situation improved and things with the children became easier we would look at other alternatives. I suspect that may have made things a lot easier for ex as well, as towards the end all emotional intimacy had gone completely and any form of touch was out (I guess because he was worried would lead to pressure for sex, either from me or because he felt guilty). I also could never see a way out, it's hard when you're right there in the middle of it, but if you're a coper than you will manage (albeit with some really rough times).

On a positive note, have had some fantastic sex since we split - sadly relationship-wise it's probably a non-starter but have certainly proved it's never too late (am in mid forties!) so don't feel like you're missing out on everything if this takes a while

Does he maybe have issues with low hormonal things, sorry am ignorant - but a supplement might help increase his libido if he was willing?

I will be the one that would go with A). As long as you both are willing to make efforts on relationship, I think it is worth trying not only for the sake of children, but for the sake of your own sanity, too. I divorced once and got married again and even though it hasn't been easy with the second marriage, the divorce is the absolutely last thing on my mind, as it gives you so much pain. You might feel happy because of the right decision and the life on your own would get much easier in many ways, but it still breaks your heart and damages self-esteem. It is hard. And, I am afraid, it is unlikely to find that perfect other half who wouldn't have any faults... People often forget to accept people the way they are, with faults and weaknesses.
I was wondering what is the reason why your DH doesn't want sex? Do you talk about that? My ex DH didn't want sex because, according to his words, our marriage wasn't perfect (no one's is). Maybe a romantic get away would bring the feelings back?

When we talk about things he always says that he is going to try,he knows how this is making me feel and he wants me to be happy and wants our relationship to work. I really love him and know that he really loves me. It's just that things never do change. Every now and then I explode and we have an argument and he promises that things will be different and things never are and all the while our relationship becomes worse and more difficult for me.

Before, I would always initiate things and we would have sex regularly. Now, my self esteem has taken such a knock that I can no longer bring myself to initiate things. I don't want the reward if I always have to beg for it - it negates the reward and makes me feel like I have no pride or maybe that I'm desperate.

But what if I'm just overthinking things - have started another thread - what of the answer is just this simple, and that I am going to have to put my feelings aside and do some work to save my marriage?

here

How is he with the rest of your lives together? Does he do his fair share of housework and childcare? (A fair share is enough for you and him both to have the same amount of free time BTW, irregardless of who earns the most money) Is he kind to you, does he speak to you with respect and affection most of the time?
WHat you need to consider is whether or not this man actually considers you a human being as important as himself, and the issue is his lack of libido - or whether he thinks of you as a 'woman' and he has calculated how often he has to say sorry and promise to change, without actually doing anything, in order for normal domestic service to continue.

If he's lovely in other ways apart from the asexuality, then the two of you need to negotiate ways for you to get your needs met that don't necessarily include making your husband take drugs to increase his libido against his wishes (people do have the right to have low libidos, what they don't have the right to do is enforce celibacy on partners, those with low libidos need to accept their partners having sex with others).
If he's basically lazy and selfish (and you will know which of these he is) then don't waste any more time trying to WOrk ON The Relationship - he's not working on it so why should you?

I can see that you would love to save your marriage, which is a good thing. That it an interesting article, I think it makes sense. It is very rare in the families that partners have the same level of libido. Then both have to compromise. If you could agree with your DH some rules, for example once in a week; every second week has to be initiated by each of you, and if he loves you and is making efforts, it would be a good sign.
Even if you don't make love, do a massage to each other once in a while to get this affection back. It can look as a hard work in the beginning (rather than result of affection), but it should get better later.
I understand how you feel about having to beg for intimacy. On this point, maybe it is good to work on your own body, rather than to wait reassurance from your DH. (nobody can make you happy if you are not happy with yourself). I am heavily overweight myself and I feel so much better when I loose a couple of pounds, lead healthy diet and do some exercise. Being able to manage your body gives you confidence to fight for your relationship, too.

SGB He more than does his fair share with housework and childcare. I really believe that he just has a low libido, which, as you say, he has the right to. The problem is that I also feel that I have the right to have a fulfilling sexual relationship that is part of my marriage. I don't want to seek sex outside of this relationship. However, I don't know that I will always feel this way.

At the moment, my children fill my life - my energy is consumed by being their mother, but this will not always be the case...

I guess the other consideration is the effect this unhappy marriage has on my children - what are we modelling for them? Are we creating a future of unhappy relationships for them?

I think it is worth the struggle as long as he is willing to put the effort in too.

Does he not want to have sex at all or is he willing to satisfy you in other ways?

Dh and I have completely different libidos and it can be upsetting at times. It is not something I would leave him over though I have thought about it.

It isn't that he doesn't want to have sex at all - if I ask, if I initiate things he will oblige with a quick, standard issue, missionary position over in 3 mins effort. This means I always have to ask and now that I have stopped asking, we have stopped having sex.

Lamazed: It's not wrong of you to want more sex than he does, but it is both wrong and futile to want someone to be something that they are not. He has a low libido, lower than yours and it sounds that he has always been like this, in which case he isn't likely to change.
Therefore, if initiating sex gets you the sex you want (and he doesn't mind you initiating it eg it just never occurs to him to initiate) then carry on initiating sex when you want it. Because that's working.
However, is 3 minutes in-and-out satisfactory for you? Are you having 'sex' like that in order to say you have 'had sex'? Would it, in fact be prefereable to to it less frequently but longer and more thoroughly?

We have had sex 3 times since DD was born - that was last October. This isn't really working. Initiating things leaves me feeling worthless and undesireable. The question is whether this is the only option other than calling things a day.

I tend to agree with earlier comments about us not being perfect, divorce is a stressful and self esteem lowering event, that sounds to me not something you need right now.
My advice would be to stay for now- remember nothing stays the same in life, right now your kids are very young. When they are older it will be a lot easier to make changes that bring your needs further into the light.
Suggestions to help you:
1, Buy a toy - seriously, I know its no comparison to the real thing but it will give you some power and control over your sexual needs that right now, your husband is calling the shots by his crap attitude.
2, Whether you choose the above or not, start to change your thoughts about 'needing' him in a sexual way, my goodness, what a lucky guy! he truly does not realise what a girl he has - think "ok, your loss mr"
3, TAKE CONTROL of your life - YOU are am the stronger one here, be in the driving seat, take action of things you can control, however small - it really works.
4,You have short term and long term plans - whatever YOU decide they will be.
Chin up, this too shall pass......
xx

I can't help thinking that is the worst post I have ever read in terms of understanding the OP and given useful advice.

Have you asked him what he wants out of sex? If there are things that would make it more appealing to him? Basically (and I am not blaming you for this) if sex is being presented to him as something he should do for you to make you happy, that's going to make it less and less appealing to him. Sure, work out what you want him to do ie pick 3 things you would like him to do for you, but also ask him to pick three things he would like you to do for him, keep communicating.
SOmething I am wondering, though, is if you have got yourself in a kind of mindset where it's not the physical acts of sex you crave, but you are investing all your self esteem in having him appear to want sex with you. If what you want is reassurance that he still wants to be in this relationship, maybe talk to him about that, because if you are frantic for sex as a way for him to show he cares, and he cares very much but doesn't have much of a libido, then you are both driving each other nuts kind of unnecessarily.

So when he says he can't change and that I will have to accept that life with him will mean a largely sexless marriage because he has no sexual desire and that he will divorce me as soon as an affair comes to light, if not sooner as just the possibility that I will go outside the relationship for sex is enough to bring things to a close, what should I do?

Am I reading right that you are seeking approval to go for sex outside of your marriage?

I think you have to be a bit more direct Lamazed.. sorry if thats out of line but im confused..

Basically - DH has said tomight that sex is not going to play a part in our relationship as he has a low libido which he can't change.

He has also said that I am expected to be celibae for the duration of our marriage.

And should I seek to have an affair he will divorce me.

I don't think I'm asking for permission to have an affair. I don't want an affair.

I just want someone to tell me what to do as I am sat here weeping, knowing that my marriage is over.

Sorry for poor spelling, just drunk my first glass of wine...

Oh no you poor thing. How awful.

I think you know you need to leave. It is terribly sad but you deserve to be treated as a women, who is beautiful and should be slathered with love and affection by her husband.

Un MN hugs for you.

Oh love.

Could you stay with him knowing this? Do you love him that much?

Is he not willing to satisfy you in any other way?

I am not a lawyer but couldn't you divorce him for unreasonable behaviour if he is threatening to divorce you if you sleep with someone else?

Can you really stay with him now he has said that?

I have no idea - the kids are so small. My parents split up when I was tiny, I hate the thought of doing this to my babies...